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Old 11-03-2014, 04:38 AM   #1001
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Everybody-thanks for the info. A good bit of interesting history! Marin-the research must have been fascinating. A good thing you are doing it, there can't be too many living PT vets out there.
No, there aren't now.

However, I'm not doing a history of PTs or PT vets or anything like that. There are actually several really good books on PT history already. I am writing about a specific mission that I learned about in Hawaii back in the 1970s from some of the crew members who were on the mission, which ended disasterously. Ever since hearing the basics of the story I've thought it would make a great book/movie.

After the book project I worked on through the 90s was published, I started writing up the PT story. But work and then a pair of books I was hired to write got in the way, and the PT story is not as far along as I'd hoped it would be by this point. Actually, I thought it would be finished but I'm only nine chapters in.

But the second hired-gun book project has just been published and I can get back to the PT story (when work gives me the time to write).

My research was all aimed at enabling me to write the story in the most accurate way possible, although at the rate I'm going there won't be any PT vets left alive to tell that I was wrong about something. But I'm a stickler for historical accuracy, so all the interviews and climbing around in restored PTs was well worth it, besides being flat out fascinating.

Example--- Did you know that JFK was a terrrible boat skipper, had the highest crew turnover rate of any PT skipper in the war, and was only prevented from being court martialled for his PT109 fiasco by the intervention of his famous, weathly and vey well-connected father? I didn't, until skippers who had been in his squdron told me what he was really like, and what actually happened on PT109.
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:10 AM   #1002
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A strange hull design I had never heard of.

The Russian Military Despises This Strange Wedge Shaped Spy Ship
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:36 AM   #1003
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Example--- Did you know that JFK was a terrrible boat skipper, had the highest crew turnover rate of any PT skipper in the war, and was only prevented from being court martialled for his PT109 fiasco by the intervention of his famous, weathly and vey well-connected father? I didn't, until skippers who had been in his squdron told me what he was really like, and what actually happened on PT109.
Good TF Members:

Not meaning to hijack PT posts (as they are simply tooo cool of boat-hull designs and power sources – for which “Human-Insane” war filled results were originally planned)... but, due to the above quote, I feel it pertinent to interject the following tidbits.

Just imagine what really happened regarding "Bay of Pigs"... let your mind wander. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

MOF... Just imagine what happens in "leaders" minds during most if not all of the Really Big Top End crisis’ points/decisions… throughout history. Especially those decisions/desires leading to or occurring during wars. Then imagine what shenanigans "leaders" pull off to get those "war" positions lined up and carried forth in the first place! I’d like to add into this that “promotional-hypnotism” and “black-flag” (i.e. blatant trickery) actions have always been a Big Part of what gets warring factions pitted against one another and persuades entire nations’ populations or races of people or religious denominations to get in place accomplishing to-the-death battle[s] (i.e. killing/slaughtering one another by the thousands/millions!). These shenanigans to encourage and propagate wars are carried forth by not only government and military leaders, but, also by religious and big business and big finance leaders.

I leave the following for conjecture:

IMHO - in general: Our intelligent human race, when considered as a single living entity on Planet Earth, Is Blooming Insane!

A Definition of Insanity:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein

Therefore I submit - Human Race’s never ending historic diatribe-like eruptions of life taking wars, pillaging, and basically "ones-up-man-ship" has always been and can only remain being carried forward via Human-Insanity!

Dear, TF Patrol Persons: With fullest respect and fondest thanks for all your do, I ask you to please not obliterate this post as its content is true and correct. However, I do ask you to place it as new thread of OTDE… if you feel so obliged. A partial quote from one of Marin’s posts in this thread regarding JFK, that is on the top of this post, simply got my neurotransmitters hot-firing on all cylinders… due to fact that I am in middle of multi-year national and international university led scientific/engineering debates that will reach a fulcrum deciding much of future for civilization. And, no, what I deal in at this time is not blood and guts war… but, if not handled correctly… it is near positive that wars will be one of the many outcomes. A portion of the dealings (people and organizations) I am required to work with or around do have strong factors resembling Human-Insanity described above.

Cheers! - Art
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:53 AM   #1004
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A strange hull design I had never heard of.

The Russian Military Despises This Strange Wedge Shaped Spy Ship
Thanks, BL

Amazing Ship! - Built to keep handle on Human-Insanity that lead to wars.

Could be real good for all types of scientific peaceful research too!
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:18 PM   #1005
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Example--- Did you know that JFK was a terrrible boat skipper, had the highest crew turnover rate of any PT skipper in the war, and was only prevented from being court martialled for his PT109 fiasco by the intervention of his famous, weathly and vey well-connected father? I didn't, until skippers who had been in his squdron told me what he was really like, and what actually happened on PT109.

History repeats. He will not be the last a wealthy, well connected father keeps his son, a future President from being Court Martialled.
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:27 PM   #1006
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Interesting at least.
The wedge vessel.

Wedge shaped hulls tend to steer themselves usually in an undesirable direction. If you were to tip, lean or otherwise roll the wedge hull a bit it will take off in the direction it's leaning. Kayakers call it lean turning and they use it as a steering aid. I can steer Willy that way (to a degree) but a significantly wedged shaped hull is much more susseptable to the effects of "lean turning".

The leaning or rolling essence can come about by waves as the "draft" can change almost instantly from on side to the other. One would think WAY too much yawing would be the result of a big vessel shaped like this in rough waters. However active rudders like active stabilizers could tame the yawing but the forces to overcome would be IMO very large.

A trawler that may be susseptable to this yawing is the older Mainship 34 as they have a rather wedge shaped hull. Wonderful in a head sea though.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:37 PM   #1007
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Was under the impression these landing craft were the most armed for their size.

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Old 11-04-2014, 12:12 AM   #1008
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I am in middle of multi-year national and international university led scientific/engineering debates that will reach a fulcrum deciding much of future for civilization.
That's a hell of a sentence.

Anchor testing?
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:29 AM   #1009
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Wish Art will send me a PM recommending where I should place/change my assets.
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:30 AM   #1010
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That's a hell of a sentence.

Anchor testing?
"Eco-Systemic"

Good guess though!
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:36 AM   #1011
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Wish Art will send me a PM recommending where I should place/change my assets.
Guidance along those lines tain't my bag! Money's Funny and Values can get Real Screwy!
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Old 11-04-2014, 01:58 AM   #1012
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Was under the impression these landing craft were the most armed for their size.
I'd have to look up if it was for their size or pound for pound. But including theatre modifications near the end of the war, the 80' Elco could be fitted with two twin-fifty caliber machine guns, a 40mm cannon on the aft deck, a 20mm cannon in front of the bridge, a 37mm cannon on the foredeck, two multi-tube rocket launchers, one on each side of the chartroom, four torpedoes, two depth charges, and two to four portable mortars.

I have photos of the boats set up this way at home, but here in Seoul the best I could find on the web to illustrate this setup is a picture of a model.
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:47 AM   #1013
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A local triple-engined boat for those who are interested:



3 identical VPP's (sorry, fisheye-lens-distortion), driven by V12 1225HP-engines:


bow view:

sorry, fisheye-lens again

I'm new here, hope inline-pictures are okay.
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Old 11-04-2014, 01:58 PM   #1014
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A local triple-engined boat for those who are interested:

3 identical VPP's (sorry, fisheye-lens-distortion), driven by V12 1225HP-engines:

Thanks for posting pictures. That's lots of power. What cruise speed that boat travel? WOT speed??
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Old 11-04-2014, 02:02 PM   #1015
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Air Independent Propulsion, that's a new one on me!

Is This Jumbo Diesel Electric Submarine A True Nuclear Alternative?

That said, articles like this reinforce my conviction that Naval surface warfare is the past. Submarines and Targets, that's all that's going to be on/under the oceans.
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Old 11-04-2014, 07:11 PM   #1016
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Thanks for posting pictures. That's lots of power. What cruise speed that boat travel? WOT speed??
Sorry, don't know nothing about the cruise-speed, if called for service it will probably go WOT. WOT-speed is reported to be about 17/18 knots. The boat was built in the 1980-years behind the "Iron Curtain" in the former East-Germany. The engines ("12 KVD 21 AL 4" - 1225HP at 1500 rpm, V12 4stroke, turbocharged diesels) were also used in locomotives.
The boat was recently overhauled and it's firefighting equipment updated (with a Swedish cutting extinguishing-system), the fireboat is 40 meters long and it's displacement is reported to be about 250 tons.
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Old 11-04-2014, 07:22 PM   #1017
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A little fleet of moored, Dutch-built steel-cruisers:

This boat-type is called "Kotters" in the Netherlands.
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Old 11-04-2014, 09:27 PM   #1018
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Originally Posted by Art

I am in middle of multi-year national and international university led scientific/engineering debates that will reach a fulcrum deciding much of future for civilization.



And to think I spend time pondering such trivial questions as whether to use nonfat or 2% in my latte in the am...I need to get a life.

HOLLYWOOD
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:35 AM   #1019
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Interesting boats

Ok. For the PT boat fans. Check out our working one at
http://www.savetheptboatinc.com
Lots of great pics there.

It has 3 running packards I and a bunch of guys in a reserve unit pulled from a rotten PT at Camp Withecomb Oregon Military museum and saved in 1986. Those old PT guys found one to restore, worked their butts off for years, and it has been operating now for about 10 years. We led in the Rose Festival Fleet when it was ready - was awesome. Lots of those guys have passed away as the years keep flying by.

And one my favorite odd boats. A Soviet trawler with torpedo tubes. wonder why they tailed our carrier battle groups and with how nasty of torpedoes they had???suicide job if they had that mission.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/mili...case-6660.html

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Old 11-05-2014, 02:19 AM   #1020
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Ok. For the PT boat fans. Check out our working one at
PT Boat PT Boats PT658 - Save The PT Boat
Lots of great pics there.
That's the boat my wife and I were invited to ride on some years ago, not long after they'd got it running. Some of the vets on that project were incredibly helpful with my research.
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