Interesting boats

[backinblue]

I've been watching Sharrow props for a while now and they do show a lot of promise. I agree it would be great to see a comparison on a larger boat. Only guessing, but I would think that at slower displacement speeds there would not be as big a difference as planing speeds. I'd also be a little leery of ordering something that expensive and hoping it's the right match for my conventional prop. I know they have tools to select the right prop, but still it's not an exact replacement.

 

[Mako]

I'd be leery of installing it on a remote cruising vessel. Try repairing that baby in Patagonia

 

[Nick14]

Interesting video on Sharrow Props. You think they might provide a bit of improvement for our older twin inboards [and singles too]? "Boat Test" should run a comparison for our older boats' 3, 4 and 5 blade old-school design props to Sharrow. If the tests showed Sharrow Props nearly as much % improvement as this video shows... well... there's the answer, what's the question. Of course new prop price is a factor. However, when need does arise for replacement of props then Sharrow might be an interesting alternative.

Sharrow might be missing a big market in regard to us old boys' classic boatie play toys!!

https://www.sharrowmarine.com/perfo...ail&utm_term=0_ef39558cdc-aec94a2f7a-66058553

There's also a thread on Sharrow props in the Power Systems section -

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/sharrow-props-diesel-outboards-64111.html

I hope to try a Sharrow prop on my new Helmsman 38 Sedan build. Like most things in life, it comes down to money. I don't know how much a Sharrow prop costs, other than comments about it being 'expensive.' Ideally I'd like to get both a Sharrow and a conventional prop and try both on the boat, which is the only way to determine if it's advantageous for my particular boat.

The tests to date look encouraging. Depending on the boat and speeds, about 20%-30% less slippage than a conventional prop, and 18%-46% better fuel efficiency. With diesel fuel prices likely to stay north of $5/gal for the rest of my life, even a 10% improvement in fuel efficiency would be worthwhile (again depending on the price of the prop).

FWIW, Captain Steve of BoatTest thinks the prop could particularly benefit semi-displacement hull types.

I agree that the design certainly looks more susceptible to damage than a conventional prop. With the 'blades' essentially being open loops, they're likely to fare worse in an impact. I also wouldn't rely on one of these if bluewater cruising in areas with limited or basic repair facilities. But for my coastal use in New England, a repair shop (or ability to ship the prop) shouldn't be hard to find (especially if I can also have a conventional prop as a spare).

 

[backinblue]

There's also a thread on Sharrow props in the Power Systems section -

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/sharrow-props-diesel-outboards-64111.html

I hope to try a Sharrow prop on my new Helmsman 38 Sedan build. Like most things in life, it comes down to money. I don't know how much a Sharrow prop costs, other than comments about it being 'expensive.' Ideally I'd like to get both a Sharrow and a conventional prop and try both on the boat, which is the only way to determine if it's advantageous for my particular boat.

The tests to date look encouraging. Depending on the boat and speeds, about 20%-30% less slippage than a conventional prop, and 18%-46% better fuel efficiency. With diesel fuel prices likely to stay north of $5/gal for the rest of my life, even a 10% improvement in fuel efficiency would be worthwhile (again depending on the price of the prop).

FWIW, Captain Steve of BoatTest thinks the prop could particularly benefit semi-displacement hull types.

I agree that the design certainly looks more susceptible to damage than a conventional prop. With the 'blades' essentially being open loops, they're likely to fare worse in an impact. I also wouldn't rely on one of these if bluewater cruising in areas with limited or basic repair facilities. But for my coastal use in New England, a repair shop (or ability to ship the prop) shouldn't be hard to find (especially if I can also have a conventional prop as a spare).

Hope you are able to follow through Nick and having a spare makes great sense. Just looking at the design, my impression that they would fare better than a conventioanl prop in an impact. The blades are better supported and made of stainless. I'm not talking about a hard grounding, but something like a submerged piece of wood. I'd think they would be less likely to bend than the blade of a conventional bronze prop. Hope to hear how you make out. I think you can price one online on their website. That might be enough to change your mind, but as you said, it may eventuallt pay for itself if it works as advertised.

 

[Art]

Hope you are able to follow through Nick and having a spare makes great sense. Just looking at the design, my impression that they would fare better than a conventioanl prop in an impact. The blades are better supported and made of stainless. I'm not talking about a hard grounding, but something like a submerged piece of wood. I'd think they would be less likely to bend than the blade of a conventional bronze prop. Hope to hear how you make out. I think you can price one online on their website. That might be enough to change your mind, but as you said, it may eventuallt pay for itself if it works as advertised.

Of the three video on Sharrow Props I've seen it appears each time their prop was specially engineer-designed for that specific hull and engine. Makes me think that Sharrow must have an engineering computer program that can take the boat's coordinates [hull shape, WLL, beam, engine type/power, weight... etc] and design a prop to fit. Good capability if I'm correct.

Regarding price... as I recall pretty darn expensive currently. If Sharrow Props really take off in being used on many boats economies of scale may bring prices down.

 

[Nick14]

Of the three video on Sharrow Props I've seen it appears each time their prop was specially engineer-designed for that specific hull and engine. Makes me think that Sharrow must have an engineering computer program that can take the boat's coordinates [hull shape, WLL, beam, engine type/power, weight... etc] and design a prop to fit. Good capability if I'm correct.

Regarding price... as I recall pretty darn expensive currently. If Sharrow Props really take off in being used on many boats economies of scale may bring prices down.

I plan to get a price quote from Sharrow for our Helmsman 38 build, and will share my experiences here.

 

[Kit_L]

Joining to see where this goes. WRT any new technology that promises '10–20% improvement in X", I am reminded of the law of diminishing returns. If I did not have legs on our boat, and we had shaft drives, I'd be considering controllable pitch props—most of the North Sea fishing fleet has these, and they are supposed to be very efficient (in the sense of delivering maximum speed for any engine output) but they are not popular here at all.

Our boat has duo-props, so an in between solution. The Sharrows do look like something genuinely new, and interesting. Looking forward to Nick's findings.

 

[Art]

Joining to see where this goes. WRT any new technology that promises '10–20% improvement in X", I am reminded of the law of diminishing returns. If I did not have legs on our boat, and we had shaft drives, I'd be considering controllable pitch props—most of the North Sea fishing fleet has these, and they are supposed to be very efficient (in the sense of delivering maximum speed for any engine output) but they are not popular here at all.

Out boat has duo-props, so an in between solution. The Sharrows do look like something genuinely new, and interesting. Looking forward to Nick's findings.

Hi Kit

I'm not clear what type, size engines your boat has... nor what type drive pushes your boat??

 

[Kit_L]

@Art,

2 x Volvo Penta KAD 300s (285hp), with Volvo Duo-Prop stern drives.

 

[rslifkin]

The gains from controllable pitch props vary based on a few factors. The efficiency curve of the engines dictate how much affecting the load vs rpm relationship might gain you. And boats with more variable weight (like a commercial fishing boat) will have more to gain.

 

[Kit_L]

@rslifkin: I did not know that; thanks. With the KAD-300s in this boat, the fuel curve is the flattest I've seen, so it looks to me as though the duo props that came with it are the right size and pitch.

The first cruise speed is at about 9kn, at 2250rpm, then there's a small bump getting on the plane and at 15kn (3250) the engines are using about twice as much (35 litres/hour each) but we are going 50% or so faster. Most of the time we fast idle around at 9kn, but it's nice to have that reserve.

 

[Crux]

41' Defever...just passing this along..
May be a diamond in the rough....or just a rough in the rough!
But, looks pretty straight, VT history, so not usual lifetime clapped-out by Fla sun.

https://www.chapman.org/uploads/docs/blocks/1448/41-defever-1980-1.pdf

 

[Adopo]

This cool boat the just popped up. Love the Ted Geary "style" fantails...make sure you are a master carpenter boatwright or have an open checkbook with no bottom. Scotch, pipe and cigars mandatory.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1946-classic-j.m.-martinac-fantail-m.y.-8428644/

 

[Adopo]

Question, do those chairs on the back deck have wheels on them?

 

[socalrider]

Question, do those chairs on the back deck have wheels on them?

Wow, what a ship! Given that & the quality of the one photo of her underway, I suspect she hasn't left her slip in a long, long time.

 

[Art]

Wow, what a ship! Given that & the quality of the one photo of her underway, I suspect she hasn't left her slip in a long, long time.

"... the one photo of her underway,..." - Her nearly vertical bow stem cuts the water like a knife!

 

[Greg S]

I saw this at Pirates Cove this week. A nice example of a small trawler style with stabilizer poles and fish. Very interesting to me.

 

[Art]

I saw this at Pirates Cove this week. A nice example of a small trawler style with stabilizer poles and fish. Very interesting to me.

Nice little craft. Love the name!

 

[OldDan1943]

I saw this at Pirates Cove this week. A nice example of a small trawler style with stabilizer poles and fish. Very interesting to me.

I'm guessing he has a commercial fishing license

 

[Bkay]

41' Defever...just passing this along..
May be a diamond in the rough....or just a rough in the rough!
But, looks pretty straight, VT history, so not usual lifetime clapped-out by Fla sun.

https://www.chapman.org/uploads/docs/blocks/1448/41-defever-1980-1.pdf

I might be mistaken (I often am), but I believe this boat is the Defever purchased and brought back into shape by the boatbuilder Doug Hylan. It was his personal boat for a time. Given how meticulous he is, I suspect this might be a real diamond if it's the same boat. I believe he renamed her MIM.

 

[Mako]

That is a nice looking, clean Defever. However I always wonder why people let their engines go downhill like that.

 

[Adopo]

This is about the coolest Trawler ever, and what history! I post the pictures because the links will eventually be gone. Also, have you ever seen a boat with the engine in the forepeak? Bizzare, but what do I know.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1959-custom-cheoy-lee-long-range-trawler-8291686/

 

[Adopo]

A few more...

 

[Adopo]

Just a few more...

OWNER COMMENTS: CHAMPION (formerly Feng Shui) was designed by William Lapworth for the owner of Union Oil when he retired from sailboat racing, having designed two TransPac boats for him. It was built in Hong Kong by Cheoy Lee Shipyards in 1959. Its third owner was Larry Briggs, famed passagemaker whose first of four circumnavigations was aboard CHAMPION in 1980. It was subsequently sold to Hollywood star George Johnson (husband of Totie Fields) who sailed it over to Europe through the eighties, returning to the states in 1990, where it remained under the shed at Atlantic Yacht Basin till his death (and my purchase) in 1995. It coincided with my sale of the 63’ William Hand, having traveled over 50.000 miles during 12 years of stewardship.

Over the last 27 years my wife and I raised (and at times homeschooled) our children, living on Block Island and the Bahamas. We have made at least twenty round trips and logged 75-80,000 miles in safety and comfort (not without an extraordinary amount of work) in all seasons with CHAMPION. I installed a hydronic (hot water) heating system with 13 Runtal (Swedish) radiators throughout the vessel. Almost all of our trips south are in the frigid winter months. Although CHAMPION is air conditioned (two separate Marine Air units), we rarely need them winters in Bahamas and summer in Great Salt Pond.

I have equipped CHAMPION to comfortably remain “off grid” and moored for truly extended periods of time. Massive battery systems (two 32V DC banks of 4-8D each, and 2-12V DC engine/genset start banks) power several inverter systems. Charging comes from the GMC main (32V DC and 12V DC alternators) or from two separate diesel generators: 12KW Yanmar or a 16 KW Northern Lights. Refrigeration is a 12/110/propane Dometic full size refrigerator and a 110V custom freezer/frig with holding plate. With 2400 gallons of fuel, CHAMPION is capable of truly extended trips away from home.

Most of the more important cruising essentials have backup systems…two autopilots, both Robertsons, with different drive units. One is a Cetec Benmar “S” drive on the rudder shaft, and the other is a planetary gear driven Jeffa sprocket drive (Norwegian) at the helm. Repeater topside at flybridge, as well as VHF, depthsounder, and searchlight controls. My searchlight is a mighty Carysle and Fitch milspec remote control million CP unit mounted on the stack, an essential piece of equipment for night travel. I have two radars, both Furuno (48 and 24 mile), Two VHFs (ICOM) and SSB (Icom) and Furuno Navtex. No plotter, as I use my laptop.

The most interesting thing about CHAMPION is the location of the engine room…in the forepeak of the boat. It has its pluses and minuses. It provides for extraordinary living space below, and the tremendous fuel and water storage becomes more centrally located amidships. Engine and genset noise levels are better contained as well. Not so fun to do engine room checks in bad weather. CHAMPION has an older (but serviceable) aluminum AquaPro 14’ RIB with a new 25 hp 4-stroke Yahama. It’s a two person launch from the top deck with a SS commercial winch….virtually maintenance free and totally reliable after a thousand uses. The paravanes were installed by Larry Briggs (closely following Bebee’s plans in Cruising Under Power) and they are essential to comfortable cruising. I rarely leave the harbor without lowering the booms (like all fishing trawlers). I can be patient as to when (or if) I deploy the “birds.” Although CHAMPION traveled tens of thousands of miles with that paravane setup, I was always uncomfortable with the lack of retrieval (short of lifting the booms and bringing the birds in by hand).

After examining many fishing boats and long range trawlers (eg Bebee’s own Passagemaker) I installed a second retrieval line to the birds, each rigged to a 5 ton winch inboard on each side of the boat. By merely slowing down and pushing a button, the birds can be retrieved, either for entering a harbor or to eliminate seaweed. We often travel multiple days with the paravanes deployed. It slows CHAMPION by a knot….small price to pay for comfort. Although the reputation for GM 6-71’s is legendary, (all my vessels have been so powered, and I have rebuilt a few), when given the opportunity to buy a brand new one shortly before the Clean Air Act banned two stroke diesels, I could not resist. Billings Marine installed the new Detroit and new Twin Disc gear, along with a new Northern Lights genset and a wish list of engine room upgrades…a fitting reward for a classic teak vessel with so much life ahead. The copper riveted hull (both topside and bottom) were redone by Billings. The bottom was wooded and epoxy primed (InterProtect) and the hull Awlgripped. I re-Awlgripped the boat last year….two coats 545 primer and two Whisper Gray topcoats. I got 12 years out of the last job. The pictures don’t lie. As per our conversation last….my main reason for selling CHAMPION is age. I’ll be 75 this summer. That being said, I am not retiring the boat. At summer’s end (on Block Island) I will haul out at Wickford Cove Safe Harbors for Sept/Oct (as I have for three decades) and will then head back to Hopetown. I have a list of projects to do on the vessel, whether it sells or not. I intend to leave every tool and spare part aboard and would feel remiss if not given the chance to delve into every aspect of Champions needs and operation with a new owner. As mentioned, it will be at AYB for May and most of June before heading for Block Island for the summer.

 

[Adopo]

Who can chime in about engine in the forepeak? Was this common in some applications? Tell me that huge prop shaft doesn’t remind you of the Bell P-39A Airacobra...in some way.

 

[backinblue]

Relatively small holding tank capacity especially if you are spending months in a place like the Great Salt Pond (which would be far from my first choice in New England). That said, it certainly belongs in the category of "Interesting Boats".

 

[HTurner]

This is about the coolest Trawler ever, and what history! I post the pictures because the links will eventually be gone. Also, have you ever seen a boat with the engine in the forepeak? Bizzare, but what do I know.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1959-custom-cheoy-lee-long-range-trawler-8291686/

Wow. If I were in the market, I would buy her. She is definitely interesting and unique.

 

[Greg S]

Another interesting boat found in Pirates Cove.

 

[socalrider]

Who can chime in about engine in the forepeak? Was this common in some applications? Tell me that huge prop shaft doesn’t remind you of the Bell P-39A Airacobra...in some way.

Extremely cool boat and a fantastic writeup. Never seen such a long driveshaft!

 

[BruceK]

Interesting old Williams: https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boat...s-baycruiser-1939-historic-masterpiece/281188.
Williams cruisers were built in Sydney at the waterside suburb of Drummoyne. The site was still in use as President Boatshed until a recent fire, not sure what happened after that. A very pretty boat, but lots of upkeep required.

Oddly, it`s in Tasmania (island State to the south)but listed by a broker near Sydney. I see it has a badge of membership with KMYC (Ku-Ring-Gai Motor Yacht Club) in Broken Bay, where there seem to be some changes with the shipwright/sales establishment.