Interesting boats

[Wayfarer]

You're all wrong. Aluminum. It's got to be aluminum. That's the only correct answer.

With a Mantus M1.


...




And a single diesel.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Re: Post # 9241...

 

[Simi 60]

"Wood epoxy either strip plank or cold molded is no more work than grp."

That is: Until there is a crack on the glass that allows water in to touch the wood... then wood rot can develop. And, because you do not notice that intrusion for years... by the time it becomes bad enough to "really" be noticable... there may be need for substantial entire area restoration.

Strip planked boats are generally done in WRC or more recently, pawlonia so rot is near a non issue.

Balsa cored (duflex) is different, but that is end grain, epoxy and no voids between blocks so water ingress is usually localised to a small area and is usually a relatively simple route out and replace.

I have built and repaired several over the years using the above methods.
Some of them have taken a hit that has been immersed for a year yet water only travelled an inch or two.

Production balsa is something different.
End grain contour sheets, poor build techniques and polyester resins that don't play well with timber leaves a lot of those voids between blocks empty and water can travel great distances and cause big problems.
But end grain Balsa construction is not strip plank.

 

[Simi 60]

Hull refastinings; an eventuality for wood boats... anyone!!??

Yep, our older big sister ship recently did a partial refasten, not because she needed it but because they felt it to be a good thing.
The owners did much of the work themselves with a couple of mates, all who know boats and they had it sanded back, new screws, a section of bottom planking done, some spot recaulking and new bottom paint in less than 2 weeks.

Big expense extras would have been the special order silicone bronze screws, big enough to go through 2 inch Spotted Gum and into the frames and even then, that would have been several grand at most.

We have gone through ours where we can, all frames and ribs seem tight with no gaps but, we to will do a partial refasten in the near future.
We were supposed to be heading to South East Asia as I type, 10 skilled workers for the price of 1 here would make short work of it.

Also, from what I have read and I could be wrong here, the US had a bit of a history of using soft, inferior timber and steel fasteners in a lot of their timber fleet.
Like I said, I could be wrong.

 

[Art]

Strip planked boats are generally done in WRC or more recently, pawlonia so rot is near a non issue.

Balsa cored (duflex) is different, but that is end grain, epoxy and no voids between blocks so water ingress is usually localised to a small area and is usually a relatively simple route out and replace.

I have built and repaired several over the years using the above methods.
Some of them have taken a hit that has been immersed for a year yet water only travelled an inch or two.

Production balsa is something different.
End grain contour sheets, poor build techniques and polyester resins that don't play well with timber leaves a lot of those voids between blocks empty and water can travel great distances and cause big problems.
But end grain Balsa construction is not strip plank.

Did you notice the caviates I'd emplanted??!!

Originally Posted by Art

Quote: Until there is a crack on the glass that allows water in to touch the wood... then wood rot can develop. And, because you do not notice that intrusion for years... by the time it becomes bad enough to "really" be noticable... there may be need for substantial entire area restoration.

 

[Simi 60]

Did you notice the caviates I'd emplanted??!!

Originally Posted by Art

Quote: Until there is a crack on the glass that allows water in to touch the wood... then wood rot can develop. And, because you do not notice that intrusion for years... by the time it becomes bad enough to "really" be noticable... there may be need for substantial entire area restoration.

Yep, ifs, buts and maybes

Reality is all boats can have issues.

Over the years I have been involved in repairs for:
Extensive osmosis blistering on production fiberglass boats
Rotten ply on timber boats and production fiberglass boats
Rotten balsa core on production fiberglass boats
Delaminated foam core and hull penetrations from extensive collisions and pushed past breaking (racing yachts)
Rust, rust and more rust on steelies
And for the aluminium boys , I was involved in carving a big section of below waterline hull out on this thing soon after launch due to electrolysis.

All boats , regardless of construction and value, can and do have issues

 

[Art]

Yep, our older big sister ship recently did a partial refasten, not because she needed it but because they felt it to be a good thing.
The owners did much of the work themselves with a couple of mates, all who know boats and they had it sanded back, new screws, a section of bottom planking done, some spot recaulking and new bottom paint in less than 2 weeks.

Big expense extras would have been the special order silicone bronze screws, big enough to go through 2 inch Spotted Gum and into the frames and even then, that would have been several grand at most.

We have gone through ours where we can, all frames and ribs seem tight with no gaps but, we to will do a partial refasten in the near future.
We were supposed to be heading to South East Asia as I type, 10 skilled workers for the price of 1 here would make short work of it.

Also, from what I have read and I could be wrong here, the US had a bit of a history of using soft, inferior timber and steel fasteners in a lot of their timber fleet.
Like I said, I could be wrong.

Yo Simi

Want you, Eric and other wood boat owners to know that I [and many others - but not all] TF members are not trying to degrade wooden boats. But, rather to simply state the reality I've / we've experienced from previously owning and working on wood boats.

For certain my desire to not own a wood boat it is not due to the beauty that wood exudes, because... fiberglass, steel or aluminum simply do not hold a candle. However, it is because I [and I believe others too] have experienced lesser efforts and expenses for maintaining boat materials other than wood.

I'm glad you like your wood boat. I like it too, just not as much as you!

 

[Northern Spy]

... I was involved in carving a big section of below waterline hull out on this thing soon after launch due to electrolysis...

Too bad you didn't carve off everything above the waterline.

I suppose it is interesting, at least.

 

[MurrayM]

Apparently we have run out of interesting boats to discuss...

Here's one that's dang purdy to look at

https://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/used-boats-for-sale/NW5540/troller-live-aboard.asp

 

[Nomad Willy]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
“Then again if you bought fiberglass you wouldn’t have to pay people to some things that are wooden boat only.”

Yes of course. And then there’s blisters and hull peeling.

Edit;
Murray,
Bingo .... that’s the boat I’ve been drooling over for several years. Since we were in Comox on our trip down from Alaska. Seabeam. She’s a double ender.

 

[slowgoesit]

Being currently BOATLESS, and LOOKING, I envy anyone who currently has a boat they can use. Be it wood, FRG, steel, alum, pressed wood . . .well, strike that last one, the front's libel to fall off. Anyway, ALL can be good, ANY can be bad, depends on quality of build, usage, and maintenance. Most of the BAD examples people can point to are lacking in one of those three highlighted areas above.
I've had wood hulls, I've had FRG hulls. Would LOVE to find a steel hull in good condition, with a layout we can live with, for a price we can afford . . . but haven't found it yet. Will probably end up with an FRG hull. If in PNW, colder water, I wouldn't be adverse to wood again, but not what I want in warmer waters.
Be happy with what you have, and be happy that other people are happy with what THEY have!

 

[MurrayM]

...
Bingo .... that’s the boat I’ve been drooling over for several years. Since we were in Comox on our trip down from Alaska. Seabeam. She’s a double ender.

I just love the lines.

While some people sit around in yacht clubs with white sweaters tied around their necks and umbrella drinks in their hands discussing the many reasons not to have a wooden boat, Seabeam has been working the coast since 1945 with over 10,000 hours on a rebuilt engine.

At 48' with 5'11" draft and not much weight above the waterline, in my minds eye I can see it moving confidently through most of what the north pacific coast can chuck at it.

 

[Art]

I just love the lines.

While some people sit around in yacht clubs with white sweaters tied around their necks and umbrella drinks in their hands discussing the many reasons not to have a wooden boat, Sunbeam has been working the coast since 1945 with over 10,000 hours on a rebuilt engine.

At 48' with 5'11" draft and not much weight above the waterline, in my minds eye I can see it moving confidently through most of what the north pacific can chuck at it.

Agreed - She's a stout marine contestant! I like her!!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thanks for admitting you like something from my time.
It was love at first sight for me. She’s big for my taste and that just makes her more unobtainium for me. I sure hope a real man will buy her but it’s unlikely. She may have faced peril many times before but never like now. She’ll probably have one tiny moment left in this world w little grace as the men that may own her and have the will and the skills and the time are far between. But she is what she is and we get a moment to look at her one last time. Good luck Seabeam.

 

[Art]

Thanks for admitting you like something from my time.
It was love at first sight for me. She’s big for my taste and that just makes her more unobtainium for me. I sure hope a real man will buy her but it’s unlikely. She may have faced peril many times before but never like now. She’ll probably have one tiny moment left in this world w little grace as the men that may own her and have the will and the skills and the time are far between. But she is what she is and we get a moment to look at her one last time. Good luck Seabeam.

Eric

Understanding your meanings and well founded enthusiasm for Seabeam.

I must inject that considering modern times it is also correct for the boat's new owner/restorer to possibly be a "real woman". Personally I am excited and appreciative of the fact that females have steeped up to the plate for accomplishing what was previously allowed for men only to do.

I have girls in my family that are "taking the bull by the horns" along several paths in life! God Luv Em!!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Indeed you are right Art.

I actually thought about that when I wrote “as the men that may own” ....
But I think to a degree to go on for all time saying in essence “he (or she)” or even “she or he” seems a waste of time and human effort. So it seemed somewhat silly (at the time) to add “or her” as every time you say “he” it’s assumed that it could be “her” as well.
Also it could be effort included to make women feel better. But I think it goes much further in that it draws attention to the fact that females are not given their due. It’s like the race issue. If we do nothing the habitual established preference will last many times as long as otherwise and in these cases should not be extended unnecessarily. But that dons’t say or imply women are equal (they are most of the time) ... just that the’ve been included. Perhaps just saying he “or she” warms their heart enough to make it worth the while.

So next time I’ faced w the question of should I take the time do mention women too I’ll be much more inclined to put “or her” in the text. Thanks Art

 

[Frosty]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "real" but as to the awkwardness of adding a "he or she" type of thing -- what about just saying "a real mariner," "a real boater" or whatever (presuming you weren't specifically hoping a man would buy it, in which case carry on).

 

[eagle419]

So next time I’ faced w the question of should I take the time do mention women too I’ll be much more inclined to put “or her” in the text. Thanks Art

Speaking of women owning and running classic working boats, try this great video from Off Centre Harbor.

https://www.offcenterharbor.com/videos/teal-northwest-fisheries-patrol-vessels-new-lease-life/

 

[Nomad Willy]

Frosty,
Oh I see it’s in post #54.
Now I remember what I meant.
“real man” A guy that knows some about boats and engines, a little math and probably more importantly one that get’s down to it in the bilge or engine room/compartment. Maybe w more than a bit of DIY. The same kind of guy that you’d like to see buy an old forest service boat. That’s all.

Yes eagle419,
There are many special women in Alaska who claim to kick ass. Don’t argue w them.
There’s a saying among Alaskan girls regarding men “The odds are good .. but the goods are odd”.

 

[DNT99611]

Not being a wood boat guy I wonder if anyone ever takes one of those old classics and cold molds a new outside skin on them? Or would that be the kiss of death to one?

 

[Hippocampus]

Around here it’s common to skin strip plank or cold molded with various types of fabric. The encapsulated wood is epoxy impregnated already and moisture content at an ideal range before the fabric(woven or Kevlar or other) is applied. Usually it’s vacuum bagged but Kevlar can float. This type of construction works quite well. But on plank on frame often it’s not a great idea. You lose the ability to easily replace a plank or refasten. You may hasten rot if there’s any imperfection in the skin allowing water ingress either from use damage or technique in construction. You need a long time to dry out a existing hull adequately and then seams may fail. So you maybe doing something that shortens hull life, is very labor intensive and quite expensive.
Some years ago Wooden Boat published an article about how to get the best out of wood using modern technologies. They suggested best cheapest, strongest, less maintenance way to go was with
Central cord of straight grained knot free soft wood strip plank. On either side double diagonals of dense hard wood cold molded. Out side a woven fabric skin. Final coat of fairing then paint or sprayed gelcoat. This would be so strong that stringers and frames would be only needed for engine beds and such or to achieve watertight compartments. Done all in epoxy rot would be a total non issue.
If I had infinite bucks would do a one off like this. Add in standpipes feeding a seachest so no through hulls. Cut out much of troubles associated with small vessel ownership.

 

[stiggy]

We’ve seen this one a few times around the San Juan’s. Finally up close in Friday Harbor.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Looks like that boat is in Everett Wa.
It looks so ridiculous but would look so so so much better if the roofs didn’t follow the deck line. So much better I would actually like it .. I think.

 

[Northern Spy]

We’ve seen this one a few times around the San Juan’s. Finally up close in Friday Harbor.

Gotta be Jay Benford design.

 

[FF]

One idea used to construct a Cold Molded boat is to use Monel staples as the pressure medium as the layers are laid on.

The monel staples do not require removing and are strong enough to pressure resorcinol glue that requires a much thinner glue line than todays epoxy.

There are companies that can pre cut the ply used for bulkheads and interior furniture and design it to egg crate for structural strength .New Zealand?

This makes for a fast EZ hull build , although at resale time its still a "wooden boat".

The multihull folks have simple EZ methods of making a foam core hull that is quite fair , but no compound curves , fine for a trawler.

 

[ScottC]

Back to the Future?

I post this, not because I think either of the boats is interesting enough to merit inclusion in this thread, but because I think the likeness between the 1950's(?) something boat and today's Greenline 33 is quite remarkable. I suppose this vintage was the inspiration for J&J Design for the "retro-modern" GL33...perhaps...

 

[MurrayM]

For the speedsters...a 35' model is in the works:

Jasper Marine

 

[Nomad Willy]

ScottC,
They look related in the picture but way different in many ways.

The modern boat even if the same length will be wider. But the biggest difference is probably the weight. And that returns us to the original thought that they are much the same and there’s probably a reason. That reason will be limited power. The old boat in your picture is probably powered by two flathead engines w a lot of iron in them. If you put mufflers on them they are very quiet but only about 100hp each. And it’s likely they are only 75-90hp.
The other very important difference is beam. You can’t push a beamy boat w/o a lot of power. So all the boats from that era (40’s and 50’s) will be unacceptably skinny to the modern cruiser. Those old boats cruised at strikingly similar speeds of trawlers today.

So Low resistance (speed wise) is the biggest commonality. But most all the boats like the Greenline haven’t played the skinny beam card. Remarkable increases in efficiency will result when they do skinny up. And then w a little slower speed and some rocker ..........

 

[Beaverlake]

Except that that Greenlines aren’t excessively beamy like most newer designs. More like a sailboat hull for efficiency. I’m sure ScottC can provide more insight.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Beaverlake,
I see the picture above and the Greenline is clearly a beamy boat. The cabin is obviously not narrow and she has side decks that aren't catwalks. So how can you call the boat narrow especially next to a 40’ 50’s cruiser?