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Old 06-01-2013, 01:53 PM   #301
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Wow ...

She's got full hard cheeks almost like the Rough Water 58.

This is the boat of a man that knows what a really good boat is and settles for nothing less. I did that w Willy (assuming I knew what a really good boat was) and now I wish I'd compromised. But if I had ..... what would I have to choose from? A hint ... It would probably be wood.

TAD,
I'll bet you've got at least a years worth of interesting boat images. I'm about out so please don't stop. I say that as most everything you post is in such good taste and can rarely be seen in everyday wanderings by the likes of me. And I'll bet I'm far from alone.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #302
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Tad

Although cost can get prohibitive... why do I no longer hear of monel fasteners used in wood boat bottoms? New England 50ís / 60ís monel was a cherished fastener metal for refastening bottoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monel
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:13 PM   #303
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Art IMO it all boils down to cost. When pricing out material for building a wood skiff screws where by far the largest expense, way ahead of marine ply by an eye opening factor.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Art IMO it all boils down to cost. When pricing out material for building a wood skiff screws where by far the largest expense, way ahead of marine ply by an eye opening factor.
That is true - BUT... When building a larger wood craft from new, and wanting it to last for many, many decades without any bottom fastener problems - why not the extra several thou$$$and dollars to fasten with monel that will last virtually forever Ė on the boatís bottom at least!

Back in the day, as I worked being a youngster in boat yards on LI, NY - when we were refastening a woody some of the owners would cough up the extra cash for monel. Shipwrights I worked with were considerably more enthusiastic on the refastening project because the use of monel seemed to give them greater respect for the boat owner. At least that's how I saw it. Also, never seen a monel fastened boat bottom ever need to be refastened due to metal corrosion... planks repaired/replaced due to rot and worms yes... monel fastener dilapidation no!

So... Iím still currently wondering why I no longer hear of monel bottom fasteners... at least on expensively built wood boats.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Art View Post
Tad

Although cost can get prohibitive... why do I no longer hear of monel fasteners used in wood boat bottoms? New England 50ís / 60ís monel was a cherished fastener metal for refastening bottoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monel
I think that's a case of un-obtainable at any price. You might find monel machine screws, but wood screws will be hard to find I think.... As almost no one builds new boats with traditional plank-on-frame construction there is no demand for new specialized fastenings. Small fastener makers are gone and thus no one makes them any more. It's actually become hard to find a quality screw in any material. We've had a lot of trouble with bronze screws bought at great expense breaking while being driven. These days stainless is not such a bad option, and it's a lot less money than bronze. Of course they have to be sealed and may not last 80 years......but nothing is forever......
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #306
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Ah, to have the resources to support such a fine craft as that. Sure hope someone gets it that cares for it. Two-cycle Nissan V8 diesel.....must sound like a 8V DD. Fascinating boat and architect.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #307
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Allright, I have a few thousand pictures kicking around here.....

The first is La Siesta (original name), an aluminum De Fever design built around 1969. 66' by 17'6" with 6' draft and around 55 tons displacement. Twin 8V-71's with 3.5:1 reduction through vee-drives turning 40" by 40" four bladed props.

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This is the Cape Ross, roughly 55' ex Canadian seiner converted to motoryacht. Hull is original wood, upperworks and deckhouses are all new aluminum.

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Old 06-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #308
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Eric (Many Boats),
I don't know how long we'll be in Alaska... Kathie's daughter and son with his family live on the eastern seaboard just north of DC, and my two sons and daughter with their families live in the Puget Sound area from Everett to Puyallup... Meanwhile, if my boat remains in my possession for a few more months, I will retarp the wooden framework I built two years ago over the Lady Cherish, and commence the teardown of everything above the hull. The choice to convert from Tri-Cabin to Europa-style with Pilot House has everything to do with my wife's FibroMyalgia condition, needing as much of the vessel on one level as possible. The Stateroom would be forward, and down only two risers, with the Salon and Stateroom being on the same plane. The two-risers-up center area would incorporate Galley, 1/2-Bath/Laundry, & stairwell up to the Pilot House over the forward Stateroom. The lid over the Salon would be a sundeck connected via a few risers to the wrap-around walkway around the Pilot House. The hard-bottom raft would be lowered via a swing-arm powered davit, & set crosswise on the lid over the Cockpit, which would be at level entry to the dock via an aluminum-grid Swimstep. Two Glass Doors, one on each side, two steps up from the dock, give side access to the Galley, and would have hinged drop-downs as part of the hull that latch up when under way to grant higher freeboard. I haven't figured out how to post pics here yet, need a little help...

As for construction, if not lightweight framing with 1"X 6" T&G Yellow Cedar run horizontally, tongue-up, I would use 3/16" water-resistant tight-grained plywood that can be obtained at Home Depot here for less than $22 a sheet, & is flexible enough to follow the contours of the boat, then overlay it with progressively-tighter weave glass cloth, finishing with white gelcoat. The extension for the Cockpit on the stern would be "sailboat style" to dramatically reduce drag, improving the already-good fuel economy (nearly 3-knots per gallon, expect to pick up at least another 1/2-knot), incorporate a new larger 220-gallon Potable Water tank below sea line, and be automatically filled with a powered Water Maker.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:37 PM   #309
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The ultimate goal in this project is to give maximum LIVEABILITY, while improving the cost-per-mile of affordability... We don't want to just live on a "Houseboat," but want to actually CRUISE her to a wide variety of destinations! If we just opt for a bigger boat that has similar features, we would likely need at least a 55' model... There's a 49' boat for sale here that has similar design features, but too many steep narrow steps down to the two forward Staterooms & Baths, and was retrofitted too cheaply (carpet over plywood floors, simulated "beadboard" fastened up with cup washers & screws for ceilings, etc). Her twin Cat 3208 Diesels can't muster even 2 knots per gallon, so it would cost us at least $2-G in fuel each way, Seattle/Juneau.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:56 PM   #310
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Speaking of Monel, there is not even ONE manufacturer left in the western hemisphere that produces Monel... It now has to come from China or India... We do have some reasonably good Stainless finishing screws available (at Home Depot, no less!) for about $20 per pound, available in 3 sizes. G.E. used to make a Monel Water Heater, and the plumbers who insisted on replacing them instead of just repairing bad elements or thermostats were, in my professional opinion, either greedy unscrupulous contractors, or just ignorant... In my 42 years of professionally working on HVAC/Plumbing/Mechanical, I've never seen one of them leak, though there aren't many left by now... G.E. stopped making them in 1965...
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:06 PM   #311
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Yes,

In the 50s a proper boat had a Monel propeller shaft and fuel tank.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #312
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1985 36' x 11' x 4' Steel "Kettle Creek" Trawler
Built by Kettle Creek Boat Works, Port Stanley, Ontario


Gross tonnage: 11.5 tons
Shell plating: 1/8" steel
Frames: 1/4" x 2" frames
Engine: Perkins 58hp, closed cooled, 1200 hours
Transmission: Hurth gear - 2:1 ratio
Cruising speed: 7 to 8 knots
Fuel consumption: 1/2 gal hr @ 7 knots
Steering: Hydraulic steering
Fuel capacity: (2) 50 gal tanks
Fresh water capacity: 45 gal
Holding tank capacity: 45 gal
Head: Manual
Galley: Propane 3 burner stove with oven, solar panels run fridge & freezer
Sleeps 4: 2 forward bunks and dinette makes into queen size bed for 2
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:03 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
1985 36' x 11' x 4' Steel "Kettle Creek" Trawler
Built by Kettle Creek Boat Works, Port Stanley, Ontario
Hmmm. Rather limited tankage for a "proper trawler."
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #314
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1 gph w 100 gals ..................


That's more like excessive tankage I'd say.

Only passage makers need lots of fuel.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:55 PM   #315
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I don't believe the claimed fuel consumption rate. In the real world, it's likely two to four times the claimed half-gallon-per-hour rate for 7 knots.

And fresh-water capacity is minimal.

A "proper trawler" should have tankage sufficient for at least a thousand miles (or 500 miles minimum).
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:28 AM   #316
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Eric, Thanks for posting the picture of our old boat Tenacious. I have several interior shots,- but need another lesson to pick them off my screen to a post here. will work on it. Tad, thanks for the photos of Bill Paige's boat. He had sent me several during hull construction and then we fell apart in correspondence. (Snail mail).
Now of all the boats photos you have posted and they all are unique, the Cape Ross in my mind can not be topped for what it represents. Thank you and were you to have more on her- PLEASE post-and thank you.

One short story on Bill Paige. The steering wheel on the Tenacious is a very pretty piece of inlayed wood. In place of a auto pilot, I used a bungee cord wrapped with electrical tape to prevent scaring the wheel and the other end attached to a cabinet latch at foot level. Bill during the inspection of the boat, commented in not a too suttle manner that the bulge, even tho wrapped with tape had pressured a dent into the surface. I went off to play golf in Prince Rupert where we were both moored. On my return my wife handed me a small paint brush and a small vale of spar man o war varnish. Seems Bill returned with sand paper and heat iron. He proceeded to raise the dent, sand and applied a coat of varnish. I was to compete the repairs, subject to inspection the next we met. The next year, Bill came through Ketchikan and damned if he didn't call and during the visit, yes, he made a point of inspecting the wheel!!!
He is truly an old "Sea Dog" a rare and receding breed.
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:39 AM   #317
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Greetings,
Regarding the "Kettle Creek" I noted the 58 hp Perkins. That would be the 4-154 which is the same I have in "Slo~Belle". I have a 3:1 SW. As we are 27 feet vs; this larger overall vessel, I will now investigate: First I will ask if Healhustler picked the specs from an advertisement of personal knowledge. Asked with the request for the dia/pitch of the wheel. As the rated rpm for this model is 3000 rpm WOT, and that is what our boat demonstrates, we run at 2100 which is 700 turns at the wheel. This produces about a 6 knot average. 2400 will move us to the 7 plus knot. At 2100-2150 RPM our fuel burn is a tad over 1 gallon. Would love to turn a 2:1 at 1600 and obtain 800 rpm at the wheel. All relative I suppose, but interesting to gain insight to that wheel on the "Kettle Creek". Maybe an address or Phone #
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:54 AM   #318
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Mark I agree w you. 1/2 gph is hogwash. I burn 1 gph and making 20hp and suspect the Kettle Creek burns twice that or a tad less. That's over 300 miles. Even in Alaska 300 miles range is plenty.

Al,
Saw Tenacious underway once and she moved right along. I was intrigued by Tenacious and would have liked to have seen more of her. Would probably be even more fun to meet Mr Paige.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:06 AM   #319
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Thanks again Eric, The Tenacious has a Hercules D198ER four cyl diesel (military use as gen sets for the most applications. It has a 2:1 SW reduction and we turned it 1600 RPM out of 2600 WOT. We averaged 7 knots no sweat, at a fuel burn of 1.5 gallon per hr. For sure as you neared WOT the black smoke would be pronounced so we may have been over wheeled, however as it WAS a small tug the bigger wheel is not a surprise. Engine temp was 180 at normal.
Good to follow this thread, it is a blast!
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:32 AM   #320
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While walking down the dock at Elliott Bay marina this morning I came across this interesting looking boat, it turns out to also have an interesting story. It is a Thunderbird, designed by Ben Seaborn in about 1958. Seaborn was probably the premier sailboat designer on the West Coast during the 30's, 40's and 50's. Tad, I am sure, knows way more about his designs than I do. He was one of the first designers to move from heavy displacement racing sailboat to lighter, faster designs. His designs just about dominated sailboat racing on the West Coast for many years. The Thunderbird was one of his last designs, many. many were home built. Designed to be built of glass over ply, the owner told me that this one, at just under 30', weighs in at about 3,500 lbs. Still actively raced, there are Thunderbird groups all up and down the West Coast.

This particular boat was built by the current owner's father in the early 60's. His father sold it in the late 60's and he found a year or so ago. He told me it was not in really bad shape, he has restored it to its original condition. One interesting note-in the early 60's Weyerhauser used the plans in a promotion for its new marine plywood. Buy wood, get plans. His father worked in a Weyerhauser plywood plant. He had the plant produce like 6 sheets of plywood 30' long! This boat is a single sheet of plywood from stem to stern-not a single joint (there are longitudinal joints at the chines and keel obviously) along the entire length of the boat. He said when he got the boat, the hull was still as sound as the day it was built.

I am not a sailor, but I think this is quite a good-looking little boat!
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