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Old 07-01-2018, 10:33 AM   #1
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Insurance requires a survey, but I donít want one...

I already know how this thread is going to go over, so Iíll try to justify. M

We are under contract with a 47í 1987 Marine Trader. Itís got some known issues (dirty fuel tanks) that are being addressed. The owners are being really great about getting the boat up to my standards. If something needs to be addressed, they are having it correct with no questions asked.

So, Iím mechanically inclined. I do all my own work. Iím not saying I know everything, I absolutely donít. The boat is in really pretty decent shape. They are getting the boat ready for sea trial with a captain and the mechanic. Once they say itís ready, Iíll come down and thatís when theyíll take me out and Iíll be able to test all the systems and poke around.

I donít need to pay someone to tell me that the hot water doesnít work, or that the a Bildge pump doesnít work. The survey doesnít even include the engines.

So hereís my plan, Iím going to go through the boat myself and test the systems. Iíll also run the gen and make sure it doesnít have blow by and can hold the load. For the mains, I want to again, check blow by, make sure it makes dates RPM and then have the oil sent out to be analyzed.

Also we will be paying to have the boat hauled out, checked for blisters and bottom paint.

The problem is my insurance (Boat US) requires a survey. I wanted to ask here first, but has anyone had any luck with basically convincing them to allow you to do the survey yourself? Or does it have to be from a proper surveyer? Anyone know of a good insurance company that doesnít require one? Iíd like to shop around for insurance anyway.

Thanks guys!
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Old 07-01-2018, 10:56 AM   #2
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I already know how this thread is going to go over, so Iíll try to justify. M

We are under contract with a 47í 1987 Marine Trader. Itís got some known issues (dirty fuel tanks) that are being addressed. The owners are being really great about getting the boat up to my standards. If something needs to be addressed, they are having it correct with no questions asked.

So, Iím mechanically inclined. I do all my own work. Iím not saying I know everything, I absolutely donít. The boat is in really pretty decent shape. They are getting the boat ready for sea trial with a captain and the mechanic. Once they say itís ready, Iíll come down and thatís when theyíll take me out and Iíll be able to test all the systems and poke around.

I donít need to pay someone to tell me that the hot water doesnít work, or that the a Bildge pump doesnít work. The survey doesnít even include the engines.

So hereís my plan, Iím going to go through the boat myself and test the systems. Iíll also run the gen and make sure it doesnít have blow by and can hold the load. For the mains, I want to again, check blow by, make sure it makes dates RPM and then have the oil sent out to be analyzed.

Also we will be paying to have the boat hauled out, checked for blisters and bottom paint.

The problem is my insurance (Boat US) requires a survey. I wanted to ask here first, but has anyone had any luck with basically convincing them to allow you to do the survey yourself? Or does it have to be from a proper surveyer? Anyone know of a good insurance company that doesnít require one? Iíd like to shop around for insurance anyway.

Thanks guys!
Super nice looking boat. Those two water streams on docked boat coming from then working engines on board or from bilge pumps? If bilge pumps... check all through hulls really carefully - including rudder shafts.

SAFECO ins is my recommendation. Still need a licensed surveyor. That seems to be a formality of every ins co.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:25 AM   #3
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Super nice looking boat. Those two water streams on docked boat coming from then working engines on board or from bilge pumps? If bilge pumps... check all through hulls really carefully - including rudder shafts.

SAFECO ins is my recommendation. Still need a licensed surveyor. That seems to be a formality of every ins co.
I believe those are from the ACís.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:28 AM   #4
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Steve, you're not going to have much luck with convincing any insurance company to let you do your own survey, unless you're a licensed surveyor. And even then they likely would not allow it.


The whole key to a survey is objectivity. A surveyor is putting his license and reputation on the line every time he does a survey so it's in HIS best interest to do a complete and unbiased survey.


The insurance company requires it because they're going to be on the hook financially if something happens to your boat and it sinks, burns to the waterline, etc. They want to know that what they are surveying is a sound boat.


If you don't want a survey done, check around for other insurance companies to see if one of the others might insure it without a survey.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:36 AM   #5
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I believe those are from the ACís.
AC condensation flow at that volume???
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:40 AM   #6
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AC condensation flow at that volume???
Ac cooling water pump flow not condensation drain pump
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:02 PM   #7
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my insurance is allowing a self survey because my boat is turning 30 this summer, but only because the last real survey is less than 10 years ago.

if you have a a recent survey or can get one, negotiate possibly.
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:08 PM   #8
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At least with BOAT/US once you do the initial survey, if they ever want another one they'll pay for it. Other companies I've done business with want an out of the water survey every 3 years or so at the owners expense. I've been with BOAT/US for 18 years now with no requirement for any survey since the first one...
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:09 PM   #9
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my insurance is allowing a self survey because my boat is turning 30 this summer, but only because the last real survey is less than 10 years ago.

if you have a a recent survey or can get one, negotiate possibly.
Oh we have one that was done 3 years ago. Iíll see what they say. Whoís your insurance with?
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:19 PM   #10
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They may accept the 3 years old one or maybe not. But they will not take your word in place of a survey. It may depend on who did the survey and what accreditations they have or didnít have. If you are going to have a survey done, make sure they will accept the surveyor. Better to ask before you pay for it than after and the insurance company says they wonít accept the surveyor.
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:22 PM   #11
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Oh we have one that was done 3 years ago. I’ll see what they say. Who’s your insurance with?
New Hampshire/AIG
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:02 PM   #12
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The inconvenience/cost of an insurance survey seems to me to be a poor reason to choose an insurance company.

I'd look for a company with good financial stability, a track record of standing by their policy holders when claims arise, that offers the coverage I want at what I believe is a reasonable price.

On the off-chance there are two such companies that are exactly equal in the above, and one wants a survey and one does't, then sure...
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:11 PM   #13
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Seems to me if you find an insurance company that doesn’t require a survey, they may not come through when you need them the most. Not a corner I would care to cross.
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:14 PM   #14
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I dont know, with sufficient experience and a good track record, I am glad an insurance company takes my word for things.

If something goes wrong and its something I missed or lied about on the self survey, they can deny my claim anyhow. But at least at some point I know they may trust and listen to me.

Sounds like a user friendy and solid risk management company to me.
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:20 PM   #15
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Iíll say what I know you donít want to hear. IMHO, not getting a survey on a 30 year old boat is the wrong place to save money. Itís about a lotmore than a hot water heater.

Just my $.02.
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:32 PM   #16
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Hire a surveyor who will work on a contingency with the contingency being whether he comes up with substantially more than you do. But if he does you pay double (or some appropriate, mutually agreeable multiple). Either way, you win -- no matter what you get your survey, either for free (because it had no value to you beyond satisfying an insurance requirement) or for substantially more than you could have paid (but then, you got some very valuable information that you should be more than happy to pay for).
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:39 PM   #17
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We have had to survey our boat everytime we get a new insurance company thru our broker, if insurance changes. Last one was 10 years ago as we have had the same company . Not a through buyers survey but one that looks at over all seaworthlyness of vessel and such things as thru hulls, battery nuts,fire equipment, electrical panel,overall shipshape of vessel. Are you going to buy this boat without a survey???? Seam that even with your mechinal knowledge, you might want one , just to find anything you have not been told about or shown by owner or broker. With so much found so far ,, I would think that you would want one and then you have one for the insurance company and a knowledge of what you need to address. Good Luck
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:50 PM   #18
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Another reason they want an independent survey is to verify the boat is real, not someone trying to scam the insurance company.
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:10 PM   #19
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They are looking an objective market/condition valuation and risk. If the boat has a three year old survey they may accept it and allow you to submit a self survey for any deficiencies identified on the original.

Worth asking.

I'm also a DIY guy but I really like the idea of a surveyor onboard for inspection and sea trial. A small price to pay for access to all of that experience.
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
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We are under contract with a 47’ 1987 Marine Trader. It’s got some known issues (dirty fuel tanks) that are being addressed. The owners are being really great about getting the boat up to my standards. If something needs to be addressed, they are having it correct with no questions asked.
Lots of good advice here, and I'd echo that you don't want to limit your choices to only those that don't require a survey. I bought my boat without a survey, then found a reputable insurer that had a package that suited me at a fair price. So I paid to have a survey done a couple of days after after I'd closed in order to make the underwriter happy. Think I'll do things differently next time :-)

I'm not sure why you'd buy the boat without a survey anyway. Where did your list of known issues come from? Are you confident in your ability to understand what to look at/common issues/what's important? I'd be looking for a good purchaser's survey rather than trying to avoid one altogether.
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