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Old 11-02-2017, 08:32 AM   #1
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Insurance required GPS Tracking System

My insurance company requires a GPS tracking system for theft protection. Does AIS meet that requirement. I asked them and they came back to me with the question is AIS a GPS tracking system. "We usually see the GOST, Spot Hub and Atlas Trax, which are all GPS Tracking systems. Is the AIS System a GPS Tracking system?"
How would you answer this question or do I need to just pony up and get one of the other systems?
Thanks
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:01 AM   #2
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I would say "yes", and send them a link to your boat's position on Marine Traffic or such.

Or better yet, talk to another insurance co that better understands the type of boat that you have. GPS tracking for theft protection sounds much more reasonable for small, go fast boats that are likely to get stolen. Has anyone heard of a trawler getting stolen?
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:04 PM   #3
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I would say "yes", and send them a link to your boat's position on Marine Traffic or such.

Or better yet, talk to another insurance co that better understands the type of boat that you have. GPS tracking for theft protection sounds much more reasonable for small, go fast boats that are likely to get stolen. Has anyone heard of a trawler getting stolen?
Yes, stolen and pirated also. One had tracking but pirates disabled it. That was a Garcia.

Now admittedly stealing a 6 knot boat doesn't allow much time to make your getaway. However, boats are stolen from docks and no one knows it for a couple of days.

That's the issue with GPS tracking, is will the thief know you have it and disarm it. I doubt AIS would sufffice to the insurer in question.
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Old 11-02-2017, 02:10 PM   #4
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The answer, in my mind, is yes. If it is switched on. And the thief stays close enough to coastal stations to be able to track it.
The anti theft systems are mostly for near coastal and trailered boats. I would discuss with my agent to ensure that they understand your boat.
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:27 PM   #5
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The answer is clearly NO.

Why the confusion?

A GPS tracking system does not need a land based network to work.

Just look ast my InReach track versus my AIS track. The AIS track stops off three coast of Africa, reappears in the Canaries and then disappears again until a few miles from Martinique.

Not very useful if trying to find a missing boat.
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:01 PM   #6
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The answer, in my mind, is yes. If it is switched on. And the thief stays close enough to coastal stations to be able to track it.
The anti theft systems are mostly for near coastal and trailered boats. I would discuss with my agent to ensure that they understand your boat.


Please ignore this. I was trying to be facetious in the first sentence which clearly didn't work and on read back was just rude and/or could be misinterpreted. I apologize to the forum. I am not in the best of spirits today.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:31 AM   #7
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I wired my AIS system such that it can be set to receive power when either engine is started. I have a (hidden and unlabeled) On/Off/Auto switch. Leaving it set to "auto" (as I do most of the season) would certainly work as a tracking device, sending a signal whenever the boat was running.

The AIS land-based receive stations don't have quite the coverage a cell phone based system would, but close.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:34 AM   #8
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"GPS tracking system" is very vague. AIS very clearly DOES use GPS in order to determine the boats location. It is a tracking system that uses GPS. If they said they required a "satellite tracking system" then I would say the answer is "no." In response to the question "Is AIS a GPS tracking system?" I think the answer is very clearly "yes."

The question itself, though, indicates a complete lack of understanding on the part of the insurance company. Like others have said, I'd be inclined to find an insurance company that isn't quite so ignorant.
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:38 AM   #9
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so am I the only one that thinks this requirement is invasive and violates one's privacy?. This is the first time i have heard of this as a requirement.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:05 AM   #10
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It is hidden in the fine print. It is not a requirement per se. If your boat is stolen and you do not have a GPS tracking device then you need to pay a higher deductible for the claim. (5%)
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:09 AM   #11
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so am I the only one that thinks this requirement is invasive and violates one's privacy?. This is the first time i have heard of this as a requirement.
Hollywood
Well, I'd expect it to lower rates but not to be required. I do find it potentially invasive. However, you don't have to give anyone else the ability to track. Can be just you or can be a company upon notification. Much like Lojack or any of the others. I don't think the insurer is saying you must allow them full time access to it. If someone was to steal our boat then we'd definitely activate it.

I'd suggest everyone take a look at Gost's website just to see all the available systems. A lot of security features that may not benefit most but are valuable for those who cruise in many different areas. We value surveillance systems and tracking but with good surveillance you hope the tracking never comes into play. Also defense systems that don't involve guns. Sound, light, smoke.

Some of it almost seems like "space age technology" but it's become very practical and useful. Much of it started on commercial and on megayachts and is slowly coming down to moderate sized boats.

https://www.gostglobal.com/
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:13 AM   #12
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Bandb your correct it says nothing about giving the info to anyone. Just that you have it so that if the boat is stolen it can be tracked.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:30 AM   #13
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The insurers are likely more interested in the go fasts and trailer boats that are indeed stolen with some regularity. It would be nice to hear from Pau Hana, our TF expert on marine insurance.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:17 PM   #14
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Sports cars are pretty much required to have tracking devices. Today they all come with them so insurers just ask you and check it as being there.

Started several years ago putting tracking devices on laptops with two purposes, first to disable and second to locate. Why governments don't and others with confidential files on theirs don't, I don't know.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:19 PM   #15
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Well my insurance has just asked for FPS tracking and does not mean AIS. AIS does not comply. They want a hidden stand alone device that Broadcasts to the satellite when the boat exits the area, and subsequently can be tracked. Seems to be a newer market with units from $150- $1500 and subscriptions to the sat reporting from $125- ?.
Would appreciate any feedback from members on this if they have and have tested the units. Information seems very sparse on the internet.
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:03 AM   #16
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Hey, all!

Here’s the lowdown in tracking systems and insurance- most insurers require them only on vessels that have triple or quad (or more!) outboard engines, due to their high theft loss ratios. This used to be only a requirement on boats located from the Carolinas to Texas, but has since been amended to be a nationwide requirement.

The GOST (and similar) systems are meet the requirement, as they are subscription based geofence systems- when activated, the GOST establishes a positional footprint, and will report when it is moved outside the perimeter, reporting GPS position, course, and speed via satellite communication to your computer or smartphone.

Never heard of this requirement for any inboard vessel powered, sailboat, or trawler.
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:31 AM   #17
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ication_system

Vessels fitted with AIS transceivers can be tracked by AIS base stations located along coast lines or, when out of range of terrestrial networks, through a growing number of satellites that are fitted with special AIS receivers which are capable of deconflicting a large number of signatures.


I think the answer to the OP's question is "It is SOMETIMES tracking with satellites, and sometimes through transceivers. Traditionally, it used a transceiver to send/receive signals red by vessels in the immediate vicinity.
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:09 PM   #18
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And understand that GPS is one-way only. It's FROM the satellites in space, down TO anything receiving the signals. There's no part of GPS that sends anything back UP to the satellites. So there's no such thing as a GPS tracking system. At least not without using some OTHER kind of system to turn around and SEND data to somewhere. That's not going to be GPS alone.

AIS takes an on-board GPS signal (which may or may not be coming from the AIS unit itself) and broadcasts that for any other AIS receivers to pick up. Typically other boats or terrestrial systems. Is that a 'tracker'? Only 'sort of'. It doesn't have any specific method for the boat actually sending it's location to anywhere. It's just squawking it's location to anything that's nearby and listening.

To get into actual tracking, where the boat deliberately sends it's location to a service you'd need to step up to a marine tracking service, with suitable satellite uplinke (sending) capabilities. This usually also comes with an annual or monthly service charge, in addition to equipment being mounted in the boat.
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:34 PM   #19
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Please ignore this. I was trying to be facetious in the first sentence which clearly didn't work and on read back was just rude and/or could be misinterpreted. I apologize to the forum. I am not in the best of spirits today.
Ha! I took it as you intended it, and it put a smile on my face, so thanks!
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Old 05-03-2018, 01:40 PM   #20
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And understand that GPS is one-way only. It's FROM the satellites in space, down TO anything receiving the signals. There's no part of GPS that sends anything back UP to the satellites. So there's no such thing as a GPS tracking system. At least not without using some OTHER kind of system to turn around and SEND data to somewhere. That's not going to be GPS alone.

AIS takes an on-board GPS signal (which may or may not be coming from the AIS unit itself) and broadcasts that for any other AIS receivers to pick up. Typically other boats or terrestrial systems. Is that a 'tracker'? Only 'sort of'. It doesn't have any specific method for the boat actually sending it's location to anywhere. It's just squawking it's location to anything that's nearby and listening.

To get into actual tracking, where the boat deliberately sends it's location to a service you'd need to step up to a marine tracking service, with suitable satellite uplinke (sending) capabilities. This usually also comes with an annual or monthly service charge, in addition to equipment being mounted in the boat.
There are lots of companies that offer sat tracking hardware (GOST is one) that will receive GPS and transmit the current location and often other information as well. Some even include engine Cut Off options for remote shut-downs.

If you're talking worldwide service, make sure it is iridium based since no other network is truly worldwide. Also make sure it optimizes the message reporting. If it has not moved an appreciable distance in a reasonable time, assume it is still stationary (or at anchor) and save the sat bandwidth. Make sure it uses SBD and not satellite dial up reporting since SBD is the only fairly inexpensive system

The lowest cost system I can think of is an Iridium 9575 Extreme and a charging mount/base. This can be programmed to report its position every x minutes or whenever the SOS button is held down. It reports regardless of movement (or not) so can chew up your data plan.

I would ask the insurance company what the reporting interval has to be and only do what they require.

Also, if the boat is metal (aluminum / steel), you'll have to mount an external antenna for the satellite service since it won't work unless it has clear sky view (fiberglass is minimal degradation).

I used to track a fleet of aircraft with satellite systems and know the business well.
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