Insurance Options for older boats

[Adelaide]

I also have a mid-80's boat. You didn't say what length your boat is?? If it's like mine, between 30-40 feet, you should at least look at Progressive. I have an 'agreed value' policy that I am really happy with. They also don't require a survey. Again, if you're boat is the right size, age and value, Progressive Boat Insurance may be a good policy to consider. Good Luck!!

 

[Pau Hana]

I also have a mid-80's boat. You didn't say what length your boat is?? If it's like mine, between 30-40 feet, you should at least look at Progressive. I have an 'agreed value' policy that I am really happy with. They also don't require a survey. Again, if you're boat is the right size, age and value, Progressive Boat Insurance may be a good policy to consider. Good Luck!!

NO!!!!! Do so at your peril should you have a loss. Make sure you read your Progressive policy, and note the many, many exclusions and limitations in the policy wording.

The Progressive policy is not much more than a modified auto policy. The policy has many parts that start "If you have purchased..." and the limits are substandard. Also, a company that is willing to insure the older vessel at agreed value without a survey is either crazy, or is prepared to not pay the claim based on the language in the policy.

A survey is under $1k including haulout and engine survey(s). It's good peace of mind for the older vessel owner, and may save you from serious damages later....

We don't represent Progressive any more- we did for many years, and chose to part company with them based on 1) their policy language, and 2) the availability of better policies.

 

[Adelaide]

Pau, respectfully, that is a very aggressive response without any examples. give me specific examples of common coverages that a Progressive policy fails to cover, I'll check my policy to see if you're information is 'outdated', or accurate. You represented them, you should know specific examples. I will be happy to post here any language you direct me to in the contract. With that said, I can understand why a broker would decline to represent them anymore. Progressive doesn't need brokers.

Again, it's not for everyone. Certainly if we're talking about a $300K late model vessel or a 48+ footer of any age, it's not the right company. For a mid 80's, mid size trawler (Original Poster's vessel?), or a smaller late model vessel, it's a company to consider..... I would recommend that the OP Read the policy and investigate for himself.

 

[Pau Hana]

Pau, respectfully, that is a very aggressive response without any examples. give me specific examples of common coverages that a Progressive policy fails to cover, I'll check my policy to see if you're information is 'outdated', or accurate. You represented them, you should know specific examples. I will be happy to post here any language you direct me to in the contract. With that said, I can understand why a broker would decline to represent them anymore. Progressive doesn't need brokers.

Again, it's not for everyone. Certainly if we're talking about a $300K late model vessel or a 48+ footer of any age, it's not the right company. For a mid 80's, mid size trawler (Original Poster's vessel?), or a smaller late model vessel, it's a company to consider..... I would recommend that the OP Read the policy and investigate for himself.

Happy New Year!

Appreciate your response. I'm doing year end backups and such right now, but let me touch on some of the bigger detriments I see regarding Progressive.

In general terms, Progressive is not an all risk/all perils policy- the definitions and policy language are quite limiting ins scope vs a true marine specific policy form:

• Progressive defines "you" as:
  a. a person shown as a named insured on the declarations page; and
  b. the spouse of a named insured if residing in the same household.
  
  Note the "and" connector. This means that both conditions must be met to have coverage. Any person operating the vessel must be named on the policy for coverage to be in effect. If a loss occurs while the named insured is spelled at the helm for a bathroom break or a nap, there is no coverage unless the watchstander is also named on the policy, or a "relative" residing in the same household. A true marine yacht policy will define "you" as you (the named insured), spouse, any family members, and anyone else you allow to use the boat without compensation.
  
• "agreed value coverage" is a cost option vice standard coverage, and adds a host of complexity with regards to partial loss repairs. There is no defined depreciation schedule under either "comprehensive" or "agreed value" coverage. If not defined, Progressive defaults to ACV (Actual Cash Value) for loss settlement. Under a yacht policy, there are clear definitions regarding partial losses (what is covered, when and if depreciation applies, and duties of each party).
  
• "personal effects" coverage is not defined in the definitions, and is a cost option. A yacht policy define personal effects in the declaration, and always included a general coverage amount in the base policy.
  
• "Pollution/oil spill" is not defined in the definitions or policy wording. A yacht policy will have pollution liability at minimum matching the general P&I (Protection and Indemnity= maritime liability) coverage, to a maximum of $854,400 in accordance with the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (latest amendment).
  
• "consequential" damages are limited to the named perils of sinking, burning, stranding or collision to the insured vessel. A yacht policy does not specifically define consequential damage terms.
  
• Liability coverage- any defense costs as a result of a lawsuit come out of the liability coverage and are not in addition to (on top of) the limit of liability. Most yacht policies do not include defense costs inside the liability limits.
  
• Jones Act coverage is specifically excluded in the Progressive policy language. A yacht policy does not exclude Jones Act coverage.
  
• Under all total loss scenarios, Progressive applies deductible. On true marine yacht policies, there is no deductible for total losses.
  
• If you are in Mexico (assuming the policy is endorsed for navigation in Mexican waters), you cannot have any repairs done to the vessel unless the they are necessary to return the vessel to the US. Translation- if your boat is massively vandalized, but still operational, Progressive will not pay for repairs until the vessel returns to the US. A yacht policy that endorses navigation in Mexican waters will generally always allow repairs covered by the policy to be performed in Mexico.
  

The above is just scratching the surface. I find their policy language to have too many holes in it to consider for any vessel. There are too many wordings of "If you have purchased...." in their form; this gives Progressive broad latitude to sell its policy based on a low price, and not coverage. The client will generally jump on a great low price, and not realize that they have minimal coverage until there is a loss.

Adelaide, I'm onboard a 1989 boat, so I understand how older boats can mean more upkeep and maintenance; I would not recommend Progressive to any of my clients based on the above (and more). For about the same premium dollar, I can recommend a company that offers a true yacht policy (all risk, agreed value) and know that the client is properly insured. We routinely write yacht policies on vessels from the mid 70s to present.

Hope this helps!

 

[pilothouse king]

If you MUST have Insurance (which I don't believe in) then LISTEN and take the advice of a Insurance professional! He know's what he's talking about!!! Don't argue- just say "sir, yes sir" and take it as gospel. I'm serious.

 

[Pau Hana]

If you MUST have Insurance (which I don't believe in) then LISTEN and take the advice of a Insurance professional! He know's what he's talking about!!! Don't argue- just say "sir, yes sir" and take it as gospel. I'm serious.

I agree that one should take the advise of a professional (be it insurance or vessel brokerage) but I don't agree that one should take things as gospel.

Doing due diligence, as well as corroborating research, will help one make the best decision possible.

As I've just posted quite a bit of info about the Progressive policy, here is the current Progressive policy that I read and referred to:

 

[Adelaide]

I agree that one should take the advise of a professional (be it insurance or vessel brokerage) but I don't agree that one should take things as gospel.

Doing due diligence, as well as corroborating research, will help one make the best decision possible.

As I've just posted quite a bit of info about the Progressive policy, here is the current Progressive policy that I read and referred to:

Thanks Pau,

Although many of the items (Ex. Mexico/Jones Act) don't really concern my situation, there are points that you make that I will take into consideration. Please post a similar cost 'Yacht policy' for everyone to compare and read for themselves. Then one can make an informed decision on the differences between them, and the risks associated with each.

 

[Pau Hana]

Thanks Pau,

Although many of the items (Ex. Mexico/Jones Act) don't really concern my situation, there are points that you make that I will take into consideration. Please post a similar cost 'Yacht policy' for everyone to compare and read for themselves. Then one can make an informed decision on the differences between them, and the risks associated with each.

Can do- the attached is the Travelers policy form. Take a look at how simple the loss settlement paragraph is relative to Progressive, as an example of how the policy wording can either confuse or help.