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Old 03-20-2015, 07:43 PM   #21
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Before you go out and buy a bunch of insurance you don't need, you should review your state laws and the federal laws on asset protection. First of all, they cannot get what you don't have in the first place. Second, federal law states, qualified 401k plans are protected, IRAs are state regulated as well as equity in your home and other personal property. I suggest you investigate thoroughly before you buy. Unless you got millions lying around in a bank account, I cannot see where anybody would need 10 million in coverage for your average 35-50 ft trawler. but don't take my or anybody else's word for it, research on your own. I would first check with local carrier that handles your home and cars. Remember, anything related to boat usually tends to be inflated. Good Luck!
Ok, a little problem with your argument just as there is with the argument you buy insurance only up to your assets. Let's say your total assets are $100,000. Why get a million dollars of insurance instead of $100,000? Because the case you lose might be for $600,000 and whatever amount isn't covered by insurance will be taken from you. Now, there are many ways to protect assets and some are protected, but whatever our unprotected assets, most of us still don't want to lose them all. Obviously makes no sense to spend $10,000 per year protecting $25,000 in assets. Now the umbrella policy we're discussing is not "for your boat." That's a liability policy to cover all liabilities not covered by other insurance.

Then there's the most used method for escaping large liability judgments and it's bankruptcy. We see businesses and individuals doing that all the time. Perhaps in some cases it's a reasonable and legitimate use of bankruptcy laws to deal with unforeseen events, but in other cases it's an abusive means of escaping liability.
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:07 PM   #22
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Australian Dollars so only $7.8 million US.

And before one panics at the thought of the cost, you'd be amazed sometimes how cheaply higher limits come. Since the vast majority of claims are low, it's often more affordable than you might believe. That's why umbrella policies themselves are affordable. The odds of them ever being used are very slim. But they're extremely valuable to have just in case.
Ok, so 8.7 M US dollars. Wow, those Aussies must be a destructive bunch. How does one do 8.7 million dollars worth of damage with one trawler?
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:19 PM   #23
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Ok, so 8.7 M US dollars. Wow, those Aussies must be a destructive bunch. How does one do 8.7 million dollars worth of damage with one trawler?
Run into and sink a $40 million dollar yacht. Cause a major fuel spill. Destroy coral reefs. Cause several deaths, especially of wealthy persons with huge earning capacity.

I don't know all the laws in Australia but in the US liability is basically unlimited. Fairly easy to put values on yachts or cost of environmental cleanup but how do you put a value on lost lives? One PWC with a 14 year old and his 10 year old cousin on it pulls right in front of you, how high might it rise?

See Anderson vs. GM. Verdict: $4.9 billion. 79 Chevy Malibu was rear ended by a drunk driver in 1993. Gas tank exploded and four kids trapped. Severe burns although all survived.

But you could injure someone in such a way that to get proper medical treatment for life would run close to $10 million.
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:42 PM   #24
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Obviously we don't insure to cover the minimum/our existing assets, nor do we insure for the scenario where we sink a 40 million dollar yacht. I choose a policy that I am comfortable with after research and meeting with my agent. When you hear about all these extreme verdicts, you never hear what they actually get, remember that!
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:47 PM   #25
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Before you go out and buy a bunch of insurance you don't need, you should review your state laws and the federal laws on asset protection. First of all, they cannot get what you don't have in the first place. Second, federal law states, qualified 401k plans are protected, IRAs are state regulated as well as equity in your home and other personal property. I suggest you investigate thoroughly before you buy. Unless you got millions lying around in a bank account, I cannot see where anybody would need 10 million in coverage for your average 35-50 ft trawler. but don't take my or anybody else's word for it, research on your own. I would first check with local carrier that handles your home and cars. Remember, anything related to boat usually tends to be inflated. Good Luck!

+1 Solid advice here. Getting ridiculously high liability insurance just encourages more silly high number lawsuits.
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:57 PM   #26
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Run into and sink a $40 million dollar yacht. Cause a major fuel spill. Destroy coral reefs. Cause several deaths, especially of wealthy persons with huge earning capacity.

I don't know all the laws in Australia but in the US liability is basically unlimited. Fairly easy to put values on yachts or cost of environmental cleanup but how do you put a value on lost lives? One PWC with a 14 year old and his 10 year old cousin on it pulls right in front of you, how high might it rise?

See Anderson vs. GM. Verdict: $4.9 billion. 79 Chevy Malibu was rear ended by a drunk driver in 1993. Gas tank exploded and four kids trapped. Severe burns although all survived.

But you could injure someone in such a way that to get proper medical treatment for life would run close to $10 million.
Your getting carried away. Suing gm is different than suing the owner of frisky.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:23 PM   #27
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Your getting carried away. Suing gm is different than suing the owner of frisky.
But unfortunately $5-10 million dollar verdicts are not all that uncommon. Large enough verdicts to bankrupt most people aren't. Each needs to determine what makes sense for them, but the question originated from why anyone would need a $10 million policy and there are many reasons they might. Now am I encouraging everyone to go buy one? No. But I'm also encouraging people to look at their overall insurance protection and talk to their attorney if they need advice on limiting their exposure.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:35 PM   #28
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But unfortunately $5-10 million dollar verdicts are not all that uncommon. Large enough verdicts to bankrupt most people aren't. Each needs to determine what makes sense for them, but the question originated from why anyone would need a $10 million policy and there are many reasons they might. Now am I encouraging everyone to go buy one? No. But I'm also encouraging people to look at their overall insurance protection and talk to their attorney if they need advice on limiting their exposure.
My personal experience has been that claims and suits have always settled for the maximum amount of insurance coverages. When that is dried up, lawyers find another party to sue that has the funds or insurance readily available. What lawyer would sue some one for 10 million dollars if they knew the most they could get immediately (within a year or 3) would only be a mere fraction of that...
Im not saying dont carry insuance either, but cmon, insuance against myself for sinking a 40 million dollar yacht? My boat hasnt even been in veiwing distance of a 40 million dollar yacht, or even a 10 million dollar yacht.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:40 PM   #29
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I do have an umbrella policy , but i am quite skeptical it is worth more than the paper it was written on.
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:03 AM   #30
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Speaking of insurance. My dock neighbor mentioned he had switched to Sea Insure (Sea Tow), and got a better policy at great savings. We are about two months into our new policy, but I went ahead and got a quote. Using a higher agreed value than my current insurance, and getting $10 a foot paid for a named storm haul out, I still had a premium 30% less than the current one. As a matter of fact- it's the best rate I've ever been quoted. Anybody using them yet??


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Old 04-14-2015, 02:39 AM   #31
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If your car isn't running right, would you walk past an expert mechanic to get advice from a stranger waiting for a bus? That's what this is starting to look like. Work with a good insurance agent, like Pau Hana, and follow his/her advice.

Environmental damages are capped by the EPA at about $850K. So the OP's current 500K of liability won't even cover that. That's bad advice or a bad choice.

My advice to clients is as follows. Liability on the yacht policy of at least one million dollars. Then an Umbrella policy that covers your assets, future income and any planned inheritance, bonuses, etc, and round up to the next million. The Umbrella also funds your legal defense.

You never know how good your insurer is until you file a claim. Search Insurance Commissioner statistics in your State. Scour the Internet. Talk to several brokers. You will quickly learn who the good companies are.
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Old 04-14-2015, 06:17 AM   #32
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On every yacht policy I have seen, environmental cleanup and liability are 2 separate coverages.

Most marinas I have been to have required $300,000 in liability. The last one that asked for a policy copy as a transient required $100,000.

In my experience, getting an umbrella policy isn't just as easy as asking for one, nor is establishing the limits. While a good idea, getting proper coverage isn't necessarily the most you can get and might take some negotiating with your company or looking further.
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:51 AM   #33
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Anytime I see someone here just comparing rates, it scares the heck out of me. Rates are just a small part of the equation and until you've compared every element of a policy you have no idea what you have.

There are two old phrases regarding insurance coverage. The first was "Have as much as you can afford." But the second was better, "Have as much as you can't afford being without." Then there's probably a third thought and that is to insure to share the risks with others.

That's the essence of what insurance is about. Sharing risks while paying someone else fees to arrange for that sharing.

This also means you can't look at just one aspect of your insurance protection in a vacuum. In business it's part of a company's Risk Management program. Well, that's really the same individually. What risks am I willing to take overall and which ones do I want to protect myself against. I can't answer any of those questions without looking at my overall coverage nor can I without knowing the specifics of each policy and coverage. Understand there's a natural conflict here too. The insurer is also attempting to manage their risks.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:06 AM   #34
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Psneeld, with all due respect I have reviewed policies from dozens of different companies and environmental damage is NOT always a separate limit. Read the original post as one example.

Generally speaking, you can be sued for everything you have and everything that you realistically are going to have. That's why most financial planners recommend getting an Umbrella policy to cover your net worth, rounded up to the next million.

When you apply for an Umbrella policy the insurance provider looks at things like your driving record, source of income, and (generalization) your risk profile. So someone with several recent at-fault accidents or a DUI may have trouble getting an Umbrella. I have provided Umbrellas to hundreds of clients and have only seen a couple of cases where one has been declined or non-renewed. Both cases involved multiple speeding tickets, one with at-fault damages exceeding a hundred thousand dollars and one with providing a car to someone with multiple speeding tickets and a DUI.

Many people on this forum have older yachts that are covered with policies provided by general lines carriers. A boat policy is very different from a yacht policy. Not all yacht policies are alike. Talk with a good insurance agent or broker, review your risks and coverages. Protect your assets.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:43 AM   #35
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Psneeld, with all due respect I have reviewed policies from dozens of different companies and environmental damage is NOT always a separate limit. Read the original post as one example.

Generally speaking, you can be sued for everything you have and everything that you realistically are going to have. That's why most financial planners recommend getting an Umbrella policy to cover your net worth, rounded up to the next million.

When you apply for an Umbrella policy the insurance provider looks at things like your driving record, source of income, and (generalization) your risk profile. So someone with several recent at-fault accidents or a DUI may have trouble getting an Umbrella. I have provided Umbrellas to hundreds of clients and have only seen a couple of cases where one has been declined or non-renewed. Both cases involved multiple speeding tickets, one with at-fault damages exceeding a hundred thousand dollars and one with providing a car to someone with multiple speeding tickets and a DUI.

Many people on this forum have older yachts that are covered with policies provided by general lines carriers. A boat policy is very different from a yacht policy. Not all yacht policies are alike. Talk with a good insurance agent or broker, review your risks and coverages. Protect your assets.
Just passing along what I know.

my insurance company would not let me round up on my umbrella....but that was years ago....maybe I should check again.

I have checked with many good brokers and companies....I am an educated consumer...which means I don't know everything but enough to know what I should be looking for.

Much of the terminology in the first post is not what I am used to seeing or hearing with yacht policies...never heard of "collision" except as a term in the body of coverage.

All I ever had was yacht policies. Never bothered with the small boats I used to own. This is also my 3rd liveaboard. And am pretty familiar with the environmental clauses as I work for a company that does cleanups after boat sinkings.
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Old 04-14-2015, 01:26 PM   #36
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All I ever had was yacht policies. Never bothered with the small boats I used to own. This is also my 3rd liveaboard. .
Ok, my boat/yacht insurance history and lessons learned along the way.

I grew up with a boat on an inland lake. My father insured it through one of his clients, then I continued to insure the same. I guess I assumed they were all standard like cars and with our relationship with the insurer, all was good. But...I found out when buying a new boat that I was paying more than double what I could get an equivalent or better policy for. I was quoted over $1000 per year on a $30,000 boat.

So moved on to insurer 2. I was quoted under $400 per year plus I found out my initial policy didn't cover residual damage from a non-covered mechanical problem. So better coverage and cheaper from an agent and company I had no previous relationship with.

As to an umbrella policy, I decide along the way to look at them and get a rather small one.

Now, I move to South Florida, we buy a boat, and need to insure. Insurer 3. At this point I get "yacht" insurance and I find out all the environmental and salvage coverage I didn't have previously. I get an All Risks Policy. I have no exclusion for named storms, none for implied warrantees of seaworthiness, none for location except for certain specified countries (Countries far outside my areas of use) for which I would need a rider.

Also, with the move we relook at all our insurance including our umbrella. I find out increasing the coverage costs surprisingly little and I get into the areas of complications of saying the burden is the other insurer's. My policy now puts the burden on the umbrella carrier to get it all worked out.

Now a couple more lessons learned along the way. Choosing a broker, choosing who to get advice from. It's difficult and requires interviewing some. Actually in business I understood that, but for my personal insurance took things for granted. That may be one of the biggest lessons is to treat insurance and other personal things like you would in a business. When I worked for a large company, we had a risk manager who coordinated all the insurance. I also learned it is often not one company for everything. You may be lucky, but I cost myself in terms of price and coverage using my auto and home insurer.

Oh, and most importantly, even though I have others I trust review the policies, I do read every page, every word, of all my insurance policies now. For any of you who don't, I bet if you took all your policies for home, auto, boat, life, health-everything-and read them you would find out something you didn't know and it might just have the potential of coming into play some time.
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:28 PM   #37
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But...I found out when buying a new boat that I was paying more than double what I could get an equivalent or better policy for. I was quoted over $1000 per month on a $30,000 boat.
Surely, you mean $1000 per year and not per month, no????
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:31 PM   #38
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Surely, you mean $1000 per year and not per month, no????
Thanks. I just edited it.
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:51 PM   #39
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All very good points BandB-
I'm very interested in the Sea Insure because of price, but am also told it has a "mechanical coverage" coverage as well. As you mentioned- I guess it's time to sit down and read our current policy (both are comparable on the Salvage/ Environment coverage) along with the one I'm considering. I guess the answer I was looking for was if anyone on the board is using them and how their experience has been if any losses. Being associated with Sea Tow would seem to be a good thing. And their network of contractors could possibly reduce the
salvage and other associated costs when an accident happens.
We lost our Bayliner 2859 in Hurricane Katrina. It was insured through Progressive and basically all we had to do was get on board and grab a few personal belongings after she was salvaged. Within a few weeks after that we received our check for the loss. I would be with them now- but they only covered vessels up to 30' at the time.


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Old 04-14-2015, 04:31 PM   #40
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Sea Insure doesn't do live aboard policies but New Hampshire does.

The Sea Insure guy sits right next to the New Hampshire girl....

Don't ask me how I know and whether I have New Hampshire....
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