Insurance

[soin2la]

Good question.

Semantics- yes (legally speaking).

It's the lack of information that puts a damper on things.

Thank you Pete, that is why I asked the question.

I believe, in many cases, Achilles heel is spelled v-a-g-u-e.

 

[Greatlaker221]

Gieco owns BoatUS who tows and salvages thousands of cases each year some of which become claims. Their database gives them good insight into how experience effects risk. Boats are very different than cars. Right now you don’t know what you don’t know and I’m sure it is surprising to be refused. Once you get insurance and you will, on a windy day when the kids are tired and the wife wants to go home and the dog has to go, and you are in a hurry to dock, the difference will become a bit clearer to you. I used to own a tow boat business and during the recession the case load really reduced as less new boaters entered the market. Learn and practice with your captain once you get your boat. I’m sure you will love boating too! Good luck.

 

[KarinH]

Gieco owns BoatUS who tows and salvages thousands of cases each year some of which become claims. Their database gives them good insight into how experience effects risk. Boats are very different than cars. Right now you don’t know what you don’t know and I’m sure it is surprising to be refused. Once you get insurance and you will, on a windy day when the kids are tired and the wife wants to go home and the dog has to go, and you are in a hurry to dock, the difference will become a bit clearer to you. I used to own a tow boat business and during the recession the case load really reduced as less new boaters entered the market. Learn and practice with your captain once you get your boat. I’m sure you will love boating too! Good luck.

Absolutely will practice with the captain Greatlaker would hate to be a statistic. And you are right I don’t know what I don’t know, so it does feel a little like fools go where angels fear to tred! Many thanks for your best wishes - I need them

 

[garmstro55]

Thanks for this clarification!! Very useful. I am carefully optimistic at this point. Will keep you posted.

Karin, I am a long-time insurance agent with a major national company which is more known for auto and homeowner insurance. We do also insure boats, but since insurance rules and rates vary by state, I am not certain about the rules where you live. However, in Pennsylvania, where I am located, we would be able to insure that boat with no problem, even with no experience.

I think that insurance companies that do NOT specialize in boat insurance tend to be more lax in their underwriting. The downside is that they don't know as much about boat insurance but if you can't find it anywhere else, try the majors like Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide, etc.

My policy is with Chubb and it has superior coverage to any other policy I have seen, but that is not who I work for so I am not trying to sell you on any particular company, just offering suggestions.

 

[KarinH]

Karin, I am a long-time insurance agent with a major national company which is more known for auto and homeowner insurance. We do also insure boats, but since insurance rules and rates vary by state, I am not certain about the rules where you live. However, in Pennsylvania, where I am located, we would be able to insure that boat with no problem, even with no experience.



I think that insurance companies that do NOT specialize in boat insurance tend to be more lax in their underwriting. The downside is that they don't know as much about boat insurance but if you can't find it anywhere else, try the majors like Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide, etc.



My policy is with Chubb and it has superior coverage to any other policy I have seen, but that is not who I work for so I am not trying to sell you on any particular company, just offering suggestions.

Many thanks Garmstro55 - I appreciate all suggestions. I will surely speak to CHUBB as well. Much appreciated.

 

[JohnS]

We just switched our insurance to a Geico policy through the agent for the Marine Trawler Owners Association, Jon Horton at Jack Martin and Associates, Annapolis, MD, 866 206 8821.
Our policy was almost 1K cheaper than the quote for a Geico policy through BoatUS, and did not have the horrendous 80% depreciation on partial loss that the BoatUS policy had.
The cost for an MTOA membrrship is minimal, but see if they can help you with a policy first.
As noted above, you may want to present the boat as being operated by a licenced training captain for some period of time, while you are also taking any classes available in your area.
Good luch with insurancevand with the new boat.
Welcome aboard. JohnS

 

[KarinH]

We just switched our insurance to a Geico policy through the agent for the Marine Trawler Owners Association, Jon Horton at Jack Martin and Associates, Annapolis, MD, 866 206 8821.

Our policy was almost 1K cheaper than the quote for a Geico policy through BoatUS, and did not have the horrendous 80% depreciation on partial loss that the BoatUS policy had.

The cost for an MTOA membrrship is minimal, but see if they can help you with a policy first.

As noted above, you may want to present the boat as being operated by a licenced training captain for some period of time, while you are also taking any classes available in your area.

Good luch with insurancevand with the new boat.

Welcome aboard. JohnS

Many thanks JohnS I will definitely also investigate this option. I remain hopeful.

 

[KarinH]

UPDATE: Dear all, many thanks for your kind words of advice and encouragement. I have made contact with Global Marine and thus far they have been awesome. I received a quote from them and it seems like “my” little tug might go a chuggin’ sometime soon. Thanks again and see you on the ICW.

 

[TripleGGG]

UPDATE: Dear all, many thanks for your kind words of advice and encouragement. I have made contact with Global Marine and thus far they have been awesome. I received a quote from them and it seems like “my” little tug might go a chuggin’ sometime soon. Thanks again and see you on the ICW.

Great news. Glad you found something.

 

[KarinH]

Great news. Glad you found something.

Thanks - I am very happy

 

[Capitaine R]

Thanks - I am very happy

We also had a similar scare with insurance when we purchased our 32NT. But it was because of the tugs age not our expierence. At first even our home owners insurance said no to us. But the agent called us back after a week or so and said the underwriter had changed their policy and are now excepting boats up to 35 years old.
We were a little nervous for a few weeks, having already made the boat purchase. So anyone planning to purchase an older boat may want to check for insurance first.

 

[Ostriman]

Mine was written by multi-line agent. This year they dropped coverage here in the Gulf Coast area, wait for it....because hurricanes tore up a bunch of boats. Agent switched us to different carrier at a higher premium, again because of good old Harvey! I have had no claims or suffered any loss. You bet the boat is going to be destroyed, they bet it will float gently in my marina!

 

[Pau Hana]

Mine was written by multi-line agent. This year they dropped coverage here in the Gulf Coast area, wait for it....because hurricanes tore up a bunch of boats. Agent switched us to different carrier at a higher premium, again because of good old Harvey! I have had no claims or suffered any loss. You bet the boat is going to be destroyed, they bet it will float gently in my marina!

All part of the reality of insurance- highlighted by Falvey Insurance shuttering it’s doors after handing in $70m of losses due to a single storm.

Insurance is a pool- a bet that something will not happen. If it does, you have a financial partner to assist with repairs or to stroke a check for the total loss.

All this for a yearly premium that is a fraction of the actual value of the boat.

Losses do happen, and insurance is there to assist. Massive losses caused by storms will affect the market in the form of higher premiums, refusal to offer coverage in hurricane prone areas, or (like Falvey) closing the doors and shutting down the business unit.

 

[BandB]

Losses do happen, and insurance is there to assist. Massive losses caused by storms will affect the market in the form of higher premiums, refusal to offer coverage in hurricane prone areas, or (like Falvey) closing the doors and shutting down the business unit.

Also a reason insurers take many steps to try to protect themselves. They place some of their risk with others. They limit the percentage of their business in specific products or areas. What really hurts them is when multiple areas get hit. Over the past two years it's been Texas, the Florida Gulf Coast and West Coast, the Keys, the Florida East Coast up to and including Jacksonville, Puerto Rico and both Carolina's hit hard.

Then you have homeowners' insurers hit by all that plus other parts of the country and then the California Fires tossed in.

What insurers are now dealing with though is a change of conditions and strength. Their challenge is figuring out what the new norm is. Suddenly, history doesn't seem to cover it as just a very small rise in water levels or temperature changes things and destroys a lot of their actuarial assumptions. Do you forecast 2019 or 2020 based on 2017 and 2018 or on the 100 year history?

 

[tiltrider1]

Markel is a very big player in marine insurance. They are also a top holding of many pention and mutual funds. Their bottom line has taken a big hit. They are getting a lot of heat from their investors to raise premiums. When I say they are a big player it’s more than just writing policies, they are also a big reinsurer and this is were the price increases are going to come from. Which means increased premiums for all.