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Old 12-05-2014, 11:26 PM   #21
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I hope you realize that a good working knowledge of boating is not with 90 percent of the boaters...at least between NJ and FL......
Nor is it between Texas and Alabama.
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Old 12-06-2014, 01:15 AM   #22
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The state of Minnesota has more registered boats than any state other than Florida. The VAST majority of them are pontoons and small fishing boats on lakes that have four or five boats on them. And you can see the entire lake at one time. Add the next big registration states like Michigan and Wisconsin (with similar lakes) and you have a substantial number of the nation's boaters there. I cannot imagine why they should be subject to some federal test of rules. They will never see a channel marker in their life on their boat. They will never experience tide or current. They will never see a commercial vessel, or one constrained in maneuverability or by draft. They don't have radios to hail with or radar to locate with. Way more than 2 million boats don't need to know these things to putt around their pond. I can't get on board with a national program.
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Old 12-06-2014, 06:23 AM   #23
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The state of Minnesota has more registered boats than any state other than Florida. The VAST majority of them are pontoons and small fishing boats on lakes that have four or five boats on them. And you can see the entire lake at one time. Add the next big registration states like Michigan and Wisconsin (with similar lakes) and you have a substantial number of the nation's boaters there. I cannot imagine why they should be subject to some federal test of rules. They will never see a channel marker in their life on their boat. They will never experience tide or current. They will never see a commercial vessel, or one constrained in maneuverability or by draft. They don't have radios to hail with or radar to locate with. Way more than 2 million boats don't need to know these things to putt around their pond. I can't get on board with a national program.
And I suppose none of them ever put their boats on trailers and go to Florida during the winter to fish. The problem is that they don't all stay on their ponds.

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Old 12-06-2014, 07:31 AM   #24
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Of course some will. I do all the time and I've taken professional training to prepare myself. So let Florida create it's own program that is appropriate for it's waters. A federal program is not needed here. It's like killing mosquitoes with a shotgun.
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Old 12-06-2014, 07:45 AM   #25
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>New York Harbor a total disaster. The worst was in the battery and the most offensive captains were the ferry boat captains.<

You thought the Staten Island Ferry should slow down to not make a wake for you?
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:00 AM   #26
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Of course some will. I do all the time and I've taken professional training to prepare myself. So let Florida create it's own program that is appropriate for it's waters. A federal program is not needed here. It's like killing mosquitoes with a shotgun.
This makes little sense to me. I can see exemption for for training on lightly used landlocked lakes, but boating on the ICW, Great Lakes or even landlocked lakes where there is heavy recreational or commercial traffic takes skill and carries responsibilities. Balkanizing licensing requirements for states on the eastern seaboard, for instance, would mean anyone who travels between states would be subject to different requirements. Why not model it after drivers' licenses; if you have one, you can drive almost anywhere. Give exemptions for the lakes you describe (like driving a car on a private parking lot).

I also think people who say requiring a license won't change bad behavior miss the point. If a license to operate a boat can be taken away for reckless or drunken operation, it might actually get some of the idiots off the water or raise their insurance premiums until it hurts.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:01 AM   #27
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The article seems to be addressing kayaks and paddle-boarders not necessarily all "recreational boaters". Bear in mind these are vessels without lights, no radio, no way of communicating, and may not have any knowledge of the rules of the road. Many often just rent the board or kayak for a day and go out and play. I think there is a rightful concern in regards to these type of activities. I took no offense to the article.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:12 AM   #28
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I think this thread could lead to some very good discussions thoughts and ideas at the same time it could end up another thread of people blasting others ideas

boating since I was a very young child does not make me a perfect or great boater

I learn new things every time I go out

In our area I am amazed at some of the things I see on the water from jetskis to kayaks go fast boats to go slow boats

Thankfully we have a large number of sheriff boats, police boats and marine patrol in the sarasota area at least this helps

But it sure would be nice to see more educated boaters
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:18 AM   #29
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An inland lakes exemption is a reasonable alternative. Regarding states drivers licenses, you actually make my point though. My friend's wife has spent the past two years trying to rebuild her life after she was nearly killed by a man from Texas who had never driven on snow covered roads. Should everybody in the country have to take ice driving training just in case they come up north? That is probably far more common than people trailing to the ocean, yet I don't think it's a reasonable solution. We're a big country. Not everything is one size fits all.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:33 AM   #30
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My pet peeve is kayaks that are blue and are almost invisible at any reasonable distance. I also think there should be a color standard for flotation devices that make them highly visible. Dayglo colors might be good.
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:19 AM   #31
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I have seen some very irresponsible boating on inland lakes specially where water skiing or jet skis are involved. There is no way to generalize exceptions.
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:34 AM   #32
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Seems to me that it is not a license that is going to fix the issue. If the people that you are generally talking about had a license they would do the same thing. In most cases I don't think it is a lack of knowledge but not caring. I just don't think the license would fix much of anything. Not sure what the answer is, more enforcement? Maybe........
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:40 AM   #33
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An inland lakes exemption is a reasonable alternative. Regarding states drivers licenses, you actually make my point though. My friend's wife has spent the past two years trying to rebuild her life after she was nearly killed by a man from Texas who had never driven on snow covered roads. Should everybody in the country have to take ice driving training just in case they come up north? That is probably far more common than people trailing to the ocean, yet I don't think it's a reasonable solution. We're a big country. Not everything is one size fits all.
In NJ the safety class and certificate for operation is for tidal waters only with maybe a few exceptions.
So even one of the most legislative states recognizes small, inland lake boating differences.
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:49 AM   #34
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Statewide licensing of boat operators began in all Alabama counties July 17, 1997 under the Boating Safety Reform Act. You must be at least 12 years of age to operate a motorized vessel on Alabama's waterways. You also must be licensed. A written examination is required for applicants, except those who were 40 or older on April 28, 1994, or those who have successfully completed boating courses given by the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary, the U.S. Power Squadron or the Alabama Marine Police "Boating Basics" course. The vessel class "V" must be added to your license if you intend to operate a motorized vessel. This legislation, which also provides sanctions for drunken driving and other offenses, has been hailed as the toughest boating safety act in the country.


EXEMPTIONS


Boat operators from outside Alabama, either 12 years old or above, can sail their boat on Alabama waters for a period of 45 days without an Alabama boating license. For more than 45 days, they must either use their out-of-state boating license or apply for an Alabama Non-Resident Vessel Operator's License. If the out-of-state operator is between 12-14 years of age, he/she should be accompanied by a driver who is 21 years or older and has a current operating license onboard, or is exempt from getting a license for 45 days for being a non-resident in Alabama, to help in the case of an emergency.



You can take the boaters safety course on line. Also if you have any USCG boating license, you wont need to be licensed in Alabama.


I don't think this is unreasonable. Piss puddles are not considered waterways since they don't contain any navigable routes.
I don't need a boaters license in Alabama because of several exclusions; not staying more than 45 consecutive days, born before 1952 and holder on 100 Ton masters. Did I take the boaters safety course? Yes. Why? Because my wife wanted to take it even though she was not required to and so I also was a paying attendee.

I am still not suffering any harmful effects by taking a day out of my life for the boaters safety course.
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Old 12-06-2014, 10:12 AM   #35
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You're right about people only following the parts of the rules that they think apply to them. I'm sure a lot of people have never read the rules, and are just going on what people have told them
This is very true. I teach basic boater safety classes. In every class, I start the discussion on nav rules with a question: does everyone know that sailboats have right of way? (I ask it different ways, but that's the gist of it.)

I almost always get a 100% "yes". Then we get into to real rules, where they learn that's not technically correct, but an gross over-simplification.

Interestingly, I've only encountered 2 or 3 students who didn't know the "red right returning" rule for buoys. I use that question to lead into more detail about the overall buoyage and ATON system.

The feedback I always get is that those two subjects were the most interesting and informative part of the class.

Does mandatory education make good boaters? Absolutely not! But I like to think that they leave my class starting to comprehend how much they don't know. Many come back for more advanced classes.

If they leave just knowing that there ARE rules on the water, I figure I've contributed something. I believe most new boaters get underway thinking that because there are no road signs, stop lights or traffic lanes, there are no rules.
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Old 12-06-2014, 10:37 AM   #36
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I almost always get a 100% "yes". Then we get into to real rules, where they learn that's not technically correct, but an gross over-simplification.
Way too many sail boaters warp the right-of-way rules in SF Bay. Some make a point to turn in the way so that collision is imminent if course change is not actuated. Talk about stupidly pissen on trees!! I have no problem accommodating these idiots' needs... been on the water too long to bother getting into a right-of-way hassle.

Some sail boaters think that as long as they have just one sail up (jib included) that they have complete right-of-way even when their motor is providing propulsion.

They should attend your class!

Here lies the body of one Michael O'Day
Michael died defending his right-of-way
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along
But, he's just as dead as if he were wrong!

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Old 12-06-2014, 11:33 AM   #37
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Interestingly, I've only encountered 2 or 3 students who didn't know the "red right returning" rule for buoys.

Probably Euros , RED to RED , Green to Green , Pass safely in between!! .

(boat red light to the red buoy, green to the green on entering.)

Should a US person voyage to Bermuda , it might be wise to know the world does not operate on US rules.
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Old 12-06-2014, 12:12 PM   #38
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This is applicable.....

The Marine Installer's Rant: 10 rules for safer boating

"The other boaters around you are all addled crazed idiots that are trying to kill you."

Sometimes this is quite true.....
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Old 12-06-2014, 12:16 PM   #39
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No where in the Navigation rule book is the term "right of way" used. You are either the "give way" vessel or the "stand on" vessel.
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:12 PM   #40
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Some sail boaters think that as long as they have just one sail up (jib included) that they have complete right-of-way even when their motor is providing propulsion.
I see this every day. In fact, out of the thousands of sailboats I've seen underway, only a very small fraction of them were actually sailing.

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"The other boaters around you are all addled crazed idiots that are trying to kill you."
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