Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-27-2016, 11:58 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: San Pedro, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Satori
Vessel Model: 1985 Fu Hwa
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 157
Installing Formica

Hi All:

Need advice as to surface prep of damaged ply in advance of laying a Formica sheet.

The plan is to lay a sheet of white Formica on the surface of the helm - but as visible in the pic - the surface is irregular perhaps due to historic water damage.

What surface prep is necessary to lay Formica on such a surface?

Thoughts appreciated.

Carl
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-08-26 14.06.31.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	107.4 KB
ID:	55621  
__________________
Advertisement

CarlinLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 12:02 PM   #2
Guru
 
Bruce B's Avatar
 
City: RI
Country: USA
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,179
I would suggest that any surface short of flat and even will ultimately show through the Formica. I always sand flat and fill voids or low spots with West System and an appropriate filler.
It takes time and makes a mess but in the end it is worth the effort to get it right!
Bruce
__________________

__________________
American Tug 395, hull number 12, delivered, on time and with expectations exceeded!
Bruce B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 01:08 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,870
You can find better information on other sites, I suspect. I would think about either removing and replacing the damaged plywood or adding a thin additional piece on top.


You might be able to fill holes and level the surface but use something made for the purpose and compatible with the laminate.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 01:13 PM   #4
Guru
 
Bruce B's Avatar
 
City: RI
Country: USA
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
You can find better information on other sites, I suspect. I would think about either removing and replacing the damaged plywood or adding a thin additional piece on top.


You might be able to fill holes and level the surface but use something made for the purpose and compatible with the laminate.
I've used West to attach Formica for years...
Never had a delamination of any kind but I'm curious, is this considered an incompatible adhesive? I learned of its use when we kept our first boat at a boatyard that specialized in Swan repair and the head of the wood shop showed me how Swans were built this way. The big downside is that it is virtually impossible to get it apart again later...
Just curious,
Bruce
__________________
American Tug 395, hull number 12, delivered, on time and with expectations exceeded!
Bruce B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 01:19 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
City: San Pedro, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Satori
Vessel Model: 1985 Fu Hwa
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
I would suggest that any surface short of flat and even will ultimately show through the Formica. I always sand flat and fill voids or low spots with West System and an appropriate filler.
It takes time and makes a mess but in the end it is worth the effort to get it right!
Bruce

I think I'm liking your recommendation as the west would give you a few minutes to move the sheet to fit where as contact adhesive would lock as soon as the sheet makes contact.
CarlinLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 01:46 PM   #6
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,833
I am ready to redo my galley formica.

I am thankful it was only contact cemented down.

Apply heat, peel up and you have the perfect template.

Epoxy and I would have to spend a month pulling the entire counter off, having some really nice top made and installing.

While all that is tempting...just a simple refreshing is also a possibility with contact cement.

True other stuff gives some options on the front end...but there is the back end too.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 01:52 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: San Pedro, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Satori
Vessel Model: 1985 Fu Hwa
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I am ready to redo my galley formica.

I am thankful it was only contact cemented down.

While all that is tempting...just a simple refreshing is also a possibility with contact cement.


Ok, so now I'm liking the contact cement... would contact cement fill those deep gaps?
CarlinLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 01:57 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlinLA View Post
Ok, so now I'm liking the contact cement... would contact cement fill those deep gaps?
Nope.

I wouldn't go to a home improvement web forum to ask how best to anchor my boat and I think you will get better information from such a site or the laminate manufacturer's website.

You might be able to level a surface with marine epoxy but I would let it set up and then apply the laminate the traditional way, with contact cement. The question is, is the contact cement compatible with the epoxy?

Have you considered solid surface material (Corian)?
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 02:00 PM   #9
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlinLA View Post
Ok, so now I'm liking the contact cement... would contact cement fill those deep gaps?
Reading this, I think it's time for you to do some learning about the subject. 99% of the time, contact cement is the way laminate is installed. You should read up on it and possibly practice an a few scraps of plywood. There are tricks to installing it and they can be found on the Internet or in books and magazines.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 02:18 PM   #10
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,833
If your dash is anything like mine....

There was 4 ply teak veneer all over the inside of my boat. For some reason it all started falling off.

I peeled all mine off my dash and sanded it smooth as it was only applied with contact cement...I am guessing this was common on some Taiwan boats.

I cut some of that thin, unbacked outdoor, cheap carpeting 4 years ago and just layed it down as a temporary covering for aesthetics and also the fact it is reasonably antiskid.

Well 4 years later and my crew is hard pressed to come up with a better covering.

Once and awhile I just take everything off of it and vacuum it. Still looks good and is non skid and non glare (I used medium gray carpet).

So there is probably a base down there smooth enough to put formica on, but if I get rid of the xarpet, I may just go with self stick floor or wall tiles with a rubbery, non glare finish.

Dead easy to apply, come in a variety of finishes, easy to replace a small portion if you need to change something down the line, etc...etc...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 02:20 PM   #11
Guru
 
Bruce B's Avatar
 
City: RI
Country: USA
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
Nope.

I wouldn't go to a home improvement web forum to ask how best to anchor my boat and I think you will get better information from such a site or the laminate manufacturer's website.

You might be able to level a surface with marine epoxy but I would let it set up and then apply the laminate the traditional way, with contact cement. The question is, is the contact cement compatible with the epoxy?

Have you considered solid surface material (Corian)?
There is nothing wrong with contact cement. I hate the smell of the stuff but clearly it works well for anchoring Formica. Remember if you head to non marine sites for advice on installing a laminate surface, the marine world has different demands than your typical home. Just keep this in mind....
Bruce
__________________
American Tug 395, hull number 12, delivered, on time and with expectations exceeded!
Bruce B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 02:27 PM   #12
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 627
There are a number of fillers used for leveling floors, some more flowable than others. I suggest getting one that is less flowing so that it stays put and does not follow the contour of the surface or angle of the boat. Fill the voids, sand smooth and follow previous suggestions with contact cement. Do not think it is good idea to try to fill voids with adhesive, since adhesive shrinks as it dries.
Chrisjs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 05:28 PM   #13
Guru
 
TDunn's Avatar
 
City: Maine Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 639
Yes fill with an epoxy based filler like System 3 quick fair, AwlFair or the Petit version. Let cure then sand smooth. Put formica down with contact cement.
TDunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 05:55 PM   #14
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
There is nothing wrong with contact cement. I hate the smell of the stuff but clearly it works well for anchoring Formica. .
Bruce
I didn't say that there was. I used it to install laminate on my boat. The solvent kind is better than the water based. Pros told me that.


Other sites will give you hints on how to install it like cutting it oversize and using a trim router to trim and bevel the edges.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 06:08 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
IntervaleII's Avatar
 
City: Tokyo, Japan / Tampa, Florida / Washington, Virginia
Country: Japan / United States
Vessel Name: Mondai Nai
Vessel Model: Nordhaven 55 - 45
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 247
Send a message via Skype™ to IntervaleII
You may want to think about removing as much of the old as possible and then install a thin1/4" layer of plywood after floating the low spots. This will give you a new good smooth bonding service for the new Formica. When I did ours I also used a thin cardboard to develop my pattern for the new Formica, which worked perfectly.
Good luck


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
Capt. Don
IntervaleII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 07:25 PM   #16
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,038
Isn`t using white Formica over a large flat area like that going to be annoyingly bright reflective?
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 07:30 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
City: San Pedro, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Satori
Vessel Model: 1985 Fu Hwa
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 157
Folks...

Your quick and helpful responses are overwhelming.

Its appreciated...

Carl
CarlinLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 08:12 PM   #18
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,232
I used contact cement on a old sailboat counter top . I used 1/4 " dial rods when I was ready to install . Laid the laminate on top of the dial rods spaced about 8" or so apart and slipped out one dial rod at a time to keep the laminate right where I wanted it . The first time I tried I didn't use the dial rods and the laminate stuck crooked and had to redo .
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2016, 08:18 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Datenight's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Datenight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule View Post
I used contact cement on a old sailboat counter top . I used 1/4 " dial rods when I was ready to install . Laid the laminate on top of the dial rods spaced about 8" or so apart and slipped out one dial rod at a time to keep the laminate right where I wanted it . The first time I tried I didn't use the dial rods and the laminate stuck crooked and had to redo .
Pack,

You beat me to it. That is the way we did it back in the 70's. Works every time.

Rob
__________________
North Pacific 39
Datenight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2016, 12:22 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
City: Southern California
Country: US of A!
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Isn`t using white Formica over a large flat area like that going to be annoyingly bright reflective?
No directly related to the OP'S question, but that was the first thought that crossed my mind as well. You might have a lot of reflection on the forward windows that will make looking out unpleasant, even if you don't operate from the lower helm. I'd set the sheet up there under different light conditions day or evening to test before installing.
__________________

Phyrcooler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012