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Old 02-12-2016, 06:51 PM   #21
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Haylands, have you really read the book though? he covers this subject at some lengths. What's missing?
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:04 PM   #22
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Expect around 1 mpg at 7-8 knots in that size of boat; depending on the sea state.
That's sort of what I expected...

Now, back to the original question, does anyone know where I can find out hull shapes of specific makes and models or is it just try google...???
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Haylands View Post
That's sort of what I expected...

Now, back to the original question, does anyone know where I can find out hull shapes of specific makes and models or is it just try google...???
As a general rule of thumb: its the maximum speed of the hull.

7-8 kts: displacement.
15-20kts: s/d.
Over 20kts: planing.

But...

7-8kts boat which is 'also available' with big engine that gives you 40-50hp/ton is a s/d hull, or 80-100hp/ton planing hull.

Easypeasy!
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:48 AM   #24
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I will have a read, thanks...



Sorry I don't fully understand this, does it make a difference when the boat is over 54"..??

And I thought the Krogen had a FD hull, do you mean a SD hull would have had even more trouble??

Please bear with me it's a steep learning curve...
55 feet was used as my cut off point as it excludes the Fleming 55 which is semi-displacement. And I am not familiar with the hull shapes of a couple of other boats that show up every year that are in the 60 foot plus range. I have even less knowledge of the 100 footers. 95%+ of the cruising boats here are in the 34 to 54 foot range.

Krogens are FD hulls. The FD hull is considered more seaworthy which is the reason it is the favorite hull form for ocean crossing.
Almost all cruising sail boats in the 34 to 54 foot range are full displacement, there are a few designed for speed with semi-displacement hulls but these are specialty items.

To simplify your choice, if you are crossing an ocean, coming to the Eastern Caribbean, or the south Pacific, get a full displacement boat. If you are coastal cruising, including an occasional trip to the Bahamas a semi-displacement hull may have advantages of speed, twin engines and multiple choices.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:38 AM   #25
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Although full displacement boats do tend roll more than SD boats at anchor and under power in small to medium waves on the beam (when comfort is an issue), this may not necessarily be the case in very large swells when safety is more of an issue than comfort.

Just wondering, Mr H.. with a boat of that size, would you not consider some sort of stabilizer system?

My boat rolls like a b**** in beam seas, without the sails raised; At anchor it is also can somewhat rolly, but the bilge keels help somewhat. Underway they do not help much.

With a larger FD non-sail boat, I would definitely consider either active stabilizers or paravanes if planning on regular cruising in open water.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:44 AM   #26
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"With a larger FD non-sail boat, I would definitely consider either active stabilizers or paravanes if planning on regular cruising in open water."

PLAN B IS A SLIGHT CHANGE OF HEADING

In open water a 5-deg change is only 5 miles off after 60 nm.

Perhaps an extra hour after 12 ,
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Old 02-13-2016, 09:00 AM   #27
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Thanks you all for the words of wisdom....

The problem we have is we don't really know what we will be doing, the plan is to live aboard for 6 months a year to get away from the cold winters in the UK, I broke my back in 1990, it's been screwed back together, I have some nerve damage in my right leg, I've now had two new hips and a left knee that's been patched up twice and will probably need replacing soonish... it doesn't stop me doing much, I just have to do things differently... My wife is a cancer survivor and clear at the moment, we are lucky in that we can just about afford to do this now at the age of 52.... Things like this change your outlook on life and we do tend to live for the moment... we just want to get on with it...

Trouble is, we have never been boat people, probably because of circumstance more than not wanting to...

Our idea is to start off in Florida and head East, then south stopping at every opportunity to enjoy the local area then moving on when we're bored.... When we hit Venezuela we will turn round and come back.. If we buy a boat somewhere else then obviously the plan will be amended slightly... We will have no agenda so don't "have" to go anywhere at a specific time... We would find somewhere local for the boat to be put on the hard for the 6 months that we will return to the UK...

We don't know how long it will take to get to the bottom as we haven't a clue how long we will want to stay in places.... We don't fancy living in Marinas and would stay out on the hook for as long as possible....

With all that in mind and a recent trip to look at boats and see what I need (being 6"5' doesn't help either) to be able to service/fix it we have come to the conclusion that we want a 50-60ft motor boat, we don't want a fast one as the trip is as important as the location, we need one that is easy to get off and on a tender when on the hook.

We want one that is as comfy as possible, we appreciate that all boats are a compromise but want to go for the most comfortable if we can...

So what type of boat would suit us best, I don't mean the specific make and model, just the design?

There has been one last spanner in the works, our eldest daughter is now getting married early next year so we are postponing the boat buying till after then so we can concentrate on one thing at a time... That does give me the opportunity to do loads more research, but reading only tends to create more questions than answer them and nothing can replace experience... Amazon are making a fortune out of me at the moment...!!

Thanks again....
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:48 AM   #28
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Regarding rolling while at anchor...

"We plan to spend as much time as possible on the hook and away from marinas so I wanted the stability of a full displacement, did look at some sport fishing boats to convert but they all have planing hulls and I've read are not so stable, or is that more smoke and mirrors.... Wish I could buy some experience somewhere...
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Other than manyboats briefly mentioning roll dampening devices I'm surprised there has been so little said about "flopper stoppers" for reducing roll while at anchor. They do a pretty decent job of dampening the roll while at anchor whether it be a FD or SD hull. Here is a link to a popular brand of flopper stopper:

Stabilizer

There are many other similar products and with a simple google search it will lead you to most of them.

Note: If wanting passive stabilizers for while underway and while at anchor I would look at installing paravanes.
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Old 02-13-2016, 12:34 PM   #29
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Thanks they look like good systems, I'll have a read...
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:09 PM   #30
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Information on Hull shapes?

While you are logged into Amazon, pick up a copy of "Sell Up and Sail" from your countrymen Bill and Laura Cooper. They retired on a boat that they modified to their requirements which included some medical issues. Good read as well as informative.

For S&G's you could also try my personal favorite, "Away from it all" by Sloan Wilson. A well written view of life afloat by a world class writer.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:05 PM   #31
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I've got a FD boat and roll seldom bothers me. And when it does I just "buck up". I had thought a few years ago I'd need a seat belt to keep me from sliding inbd off the helmsmans seat onto the salon floor but my bad rolling periods were rather short. Sometimes I just stand to the left of my stbd helm and steer w my right hand. That way I can be vertical while the boat near 45 each way under my feet.

It's a little like the thrusters. Just get good w what you've got and go.

Haylands,
If you haven been there take a spin in BoatDiesel.com and read what you can understand.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:34 PM   #32
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While you are logged into Amazon, pick up a copy of "Sell Up and Sail" from your countrymen Bill and Laura Cooper. They retired on a boat that they modified to their requirements which included some medical issues. Good read as well as informative.

For S&G's you could also try my personal favorite, "Away from it all" by Sloan Wilson. A well written view of life afloat by a world class writer.
I'll have a look at Sell up and Sail..

Away from it all is obviously a collectors book now as it's from us$706.00...!!!!!!!

Quote:
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I've got a FD boat and roll seldom bothers me. And when it does I just "buck up". I had thought a few years ago I'd need a seat belt to keep me from sliding inbd off the helmsmans seat onto the salon floor but my bad rolling periods were rather short. Sometimes I just stand to the left of my stbd helm and steer w my right hand. That way I can be vertical while the boat near 45 each way under my feet.

It's a little like the thrusters. Just get good w what you've got and go.

Haylands,
If you haven been there take a spin in BoatDiesel.com and read what you can understand.
Thanks, I've joined boatdiesel and am working my way through it...
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:47 PM   #33
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While you are logged into Amazon, pick up a copy of "Sell Up and Sail" from your countrymen Bill and Laura Cooper. They retired on a boat that they modified to their requirements which included some medical issues. Good read as well as informative.

For S&G's you could also try my personal favorite, "Away from it all" by Sloan Wilson. A well written view of life afloat by a world class writer.
And if you have an original Sell up and sail its well over us$1,000 !!!

Sell Up and Sail: Taking the Ulysses Option (Sailmate) by Bill Cooper (19-Dec-1997) Paperback: Bill Cooper: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:36 PM   #34
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Haylands,
I flucked up. It should have been BoatDesign.com.
The other is just about engines.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:22 PM   #35
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I broke my back in 1990, it's been screwed back together, I have some nerve damage in my right leg, I've now had two new hips and a left knee that's been patched up twice and will probably need replacing soonish... it doesn't stop me doing much, I just have to do things differently... My wife is a cancer survivor and clear at the moment, we are lucky in that we can just about afford to do this now at the age of 52.... Things like this change your outlook on life and we do tend to live for the moment... we just want to get on with it...
Yikes-that's a lot of Crap!!
Great that we now have some replaceable people parts but they never seem to be as good as the originals but better than the "broken originals". Congratulations for making it thru all that and not heading to the Rocking Chair like I might have done if faced with the same.


Quote:
Trouble is, we have never been boat people, probably because of circumstance more than not wanting to...
Well, you can't be a "boat person" until you get a Boat...then you are one!
Seems you are going about it the right way--lot of shopping, looking, reading, riding, talking, repeat, repeat, repeat and pick the best one you can find before you get totally tired of the shopping process.


Quote:
With all that in mind and a recent trip to look at boats and see what I need (being 6"5' doesn't help either) to be able to service/fix it we have come to the conclusion that we want a 50-60ft motor boat, we don't want a fast one as the trip is as important as the location, we need one that is easy to get off and on a tender when on the hook.

We want one that is as comfy as possible, we appreciate that all boats are a compromise but want to go for the most comfortable if we can...
a 50-60' boat is a lot of boat for 2 people. I recently concluded a 2-plus year shopping odyssey and purchased a 52' boat and I'm not yet sure I didn't buy a little more boat than I needed or actually wanted...have to keep the wife happy. We are leaving in late April in the Pacific Northwest--so we will see how it works out. I'm 6' 4" but I still have all my original parts in reasonable working order.


Quote:
So what type of boat would suit us best, I don't mean the specific make and model, just the design?
I'm certainly not a consultant on this but I've had some sort of boat most of my life. What you describe your "mission" to be sounds like a full displacement trawler with stabilizers (of some sort) would be what you might enjoy. You're not in a hurry but the trip you envision will be in a lot of open water with swells--a rolly type sea and stablilzers will make a lot of difference. With two of you on board I would try to look at some 48" +/- boats because it seems that a lot changes once you crack the 50' barrier.
I know, I know--I just bought one. ;-)

Patience and persistence during your search-sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's frustrating.

Good Luck
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:55 PM   #36
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High, strong railings and a 360-degree deck without steps as well as keel-protected rudder and propeller were my top criteria, as long as the boat slept two, fed six, and entertained ten. And yes the boat rolls.

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Old 02-13-2016, 07:58 PM   #37
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We are 58' w/stabilizers although not zero speed stabilizers. We also have 8,000 lbs of ballast. We have never had a problem with roll while anchored. While we certainly have had some roll, it has never been an issue. IMHO, roll at anchor has never been a big enough issue to be the determining factor in boat choice. With the stabilizers, roll is never an issue when underway. As has been said here more than once, when you have them you will never want to be without them. If you will be truly OK with the limited speed of the FD hull, it seems a waste to me to go to a SD. We have been content with our cruising speed of around 8-8.5 knots and have never really felt the need for more. We gain quite a bit of interior volume over a similar sized SD hull. We do not have larger engines (we are twins @158hp each) that will never be run more than 30-40% of their max. If all that suits you, consider an FD hull. If you feel you might need a bit of speed now and again, go with the SD. Unless you are going to make some long passages where the fuel capacity and the seakeeping ability of the FD are deciding factors, the speed difference is the most critical factor between the two to me.
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Old 02-13-2016, 09:12 PM   #38
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Thank you all some good info there...

manyboats

boatdesign.com seems to sell plans to make boats...!!!

ktdtx

New hips are amazing, two years ago this plan was a total no go, these new hips are 95% as good as OK ones and a few thousand % better than worn out ones... Knees on the other hand are not quite so good that's why I'm putting it off as long as possible...

Defo want over 50"... the rooms seem to get bigger, under 50" and they just try to squeeze in additional rooms, well that's what I have noticed... what do you mean by because it seems that a lot changes once you crack the 50' barrier what changes ??

markpierce

Totally agree with High, strong railings and a 360-degree deck without steps as well as keel-protected rudder and propeller were my top criteria

Ours will have to sleep 6 on a few occasions...

THD

That looks like the way we will go a FD with some stabilizing, there do seem to be far more SD hulls on sale at the moment though.... Never mind we have about a year to wait anyway...



It is great to get personal input, most stuff you read about all this, comes from someone who is trying to sing praises about their own product or service and that is very frustrating...
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:02 PM   #39
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Haylands,
Try "BoatDesign.net".
Sorry
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:25 AM   #40
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We plan to spend as much time as possible on the hook and away from marinas so I wanted the stability of a full displacement, did look at some sport fishing boats to convert but they all have planing hulls and I've read are not so stable, or is that more smoke and mirrors.... Wish I could buy some experience somewhere...
I'll tell ya all I know for a "dollar three eighty - plus tax"! That's just an old NY joke. I'll tell you what I know for free. PM me if you want my phone number. Been boating on many types of boats for decades. - Cheers! Art
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