inflatable tender recommendations

[Mischief Managed]

What model 2 stroke has a short shaft to work on a tender? The one I listed is a long shaft.

Evinrude make the 25 HP (and others) in 20" and 15" shaft models.



see: https://www.evinrude.com/content/da...uments/outboard-specs/ETEC-25-HP-Outboard.pdf

 

[jimL]

We have the AB 9.5' with the unpainted aluminum hull and a 15 hp Tohatsu and love it. The aluminum hull cuts through the chop and together with the motor is around 200 lbs. BTW the Motor is electric start with a lithium ion battery that weighs about as much as a beer. We have Davis davits which raises the dink on it's port side. The battery is strapped to the deck and hasn't failed since we purchased the package from Defender two years ago. We have dinked considerably this past summer in Long Island Sound and have had no issues with it, and can fit two folding bikes and two adults with back packs routinely to go ashore.

Jim L

 

[ssobol]

I had a Walker Bay Genesis 310 Deluxe RIB (hypalon). Bought it brand new. First time I used it, the seams started coming apart at the transom. Got it repaired under warranty, but that was a big PITA itself.

Replaced it with a Zodiac 470 Console RIB. The Zodiac was a PVC boat with thermowelded seams (tubes from France, not China). Way better boat all the way around.

 

[RickyD]

I have an Achilles 10ft with inflatable floor and love it. Must be 18+ years old. I have had to put a couple patches on it lately. I'd buy another one in a heart beat. It is not a RIB but the Achilles Hypalon and construction are great. I also have an 2006 Caribe 12' RiB. I pumped it up last year and it has not needed air since.

Many good options out there as long as its Hypalon.

 

[amapola]

We love our AB and live in southwest Florida.

 

[CaptRowlands]

An aluminum bottom RIB has some terrific advantages-less weight is key.

 

[Wataworld]

Dingy

I bought an aluminum hull inflatable from Inflatable Boat pro over here on the east coast of florida they were very easy to talk to and reasonable in the price The fella I delt with was Kenny Rodgers the brand is a Zar Mini
https://www.inflatableboatpro.com/z...KRjYqQ8JJgzAX51_eknLxjZ44fWGZRU8aAscEEALw_wcB
Check their site out!
Gregg

 

[sascudder]

The transom is important

Whatever brand you obtain, make sure the hull and the transom are built together as one piece. Some of the cheaper RIBs have a foldable transom. In my experience, this was the death of my last RIB, the outboard twists it forward, quickly destroying the glued seams holding it all together.

 

[IntoTheBlue]

Area used and Maintenance are the key

I also just went through this as well, researching, talking and trying to stay on somewhat of a budget as well.

I found that rather than buying by the brand (everyone has their favorite or good / bad experience) the first concern was to consider the material (Hypalon or PVC). Since your in South Florida, I definitely would only consider Hypalon. I'm from up north, so this becomes an issue of choice. Do note that all PVC materials are not the same and welded in the same way.

The second lesson I learned (also know from experience) was maintenance. If the inflatable is not washed, inflation kept up, etc., it probably will degrade. I'm sure that you will hear comments about someone doing nothing and their inflatable lasting 10 years, but rest assured, this is not the norm. This of course if difficult to do with those who anchor or stay on moorings.

That being said, my experience with inexpensive inflatables has been really bad. So, I suggest keeping with the "known brands" (I would include Zodiac in that list)

I did end up this time with an aluminum hull. My first. We'll see how it goes.

Enjoy!

 

[jeff brown]

I just bought a 10 ft AVON RIB hypolon 2004 with a 2007 2 stroke yamaha low hours with cover and a shorelander trailer for $2200. Been in Michigan its whole life so fresh water. Really wanted the lighter aluminum AB or equivalent but cash and this came up in Michigan. I'll haul it to Florida soon. I'm a 2 stroke guy so that helped me also.
Thanks for all the great information. You are awesome!!!!

jeffbrownvintagekarting.com

 

[bykpjfk]

Another Highfield fan

I can also recommend the Highfield aluminum RIB. Bought ours over two years ago, and have never had to add air. Love the light weight and the double hull floor for staying dry.
I was told when researching two years ago that earlier models had a problem with the powder coating, in case you are looking used earlier than ~2016.
BTW, Hypalon is recommended for Florida users.

 

[Artie O]

We purchased a north American aluminum hardbotton 11ft hypalon it has been flawless for 2+ years price was competitive and quality excellent the company and owner are very accommodating would highly recommend they are from Maine.

 

[Marlinmike]

This just as a data-point: few years ago wanted RIB, was very high on AB, had a number of conversations with owner of Defender Marine in Ct, smart guy and knows his stuff, but he was steering me away from AB because of cost. My son has this good discount at West Marine and so I ended up buying 10.5 Hyp RIB of their "in name" brand for 1/2 the price of AB figuring I can but two of these for one AB, long story short I should have bought the AB, the material thickness (which I did NOT research) is thin and I've needed to patch a number of locations because say a beach chair rubbed and wore a hole in it (one trip). You get what you pay for...

 

[tozz]

We have a 2012 AB 13 DLX and love it. Added light arch and grab bars make it really easy to get in and out of it. The one negative I found with my AB compared to some others is the bow eye is a little forward and higher compared to other brands and it lines up perfectly with my swim platform. So I have to be careful pulling up to the big boat or tying up overnight because it can cause some damage if you aren't careful.

 

[Tom.B]

True that. The fuel injection on an Etec is more advanced than the fuel injection on typical 4 stroke engines. Instead of injecting fuel into the air stream outside of the combustion chamber, the direct injection system injects fuel into the combustion chamber after the intake and exhaust ports are closed so that unburned fuel is never exposed to an open port. The fuel is also injected at very high pressure so that it atomizes well and burns cleanly.

This is called direct injection. I have it on my Ford Ecoboost pickup truck, and there is a downside to it. The issue is carbon deposits on the back side of the intake valves. In traditional injector systems, the fuel stream keeps the valves and seats clean from carbon deposits, but in direct injection motors, it cannot. Will that be an issue with an outboard? Does it get used enough to matter? Maybe or maybe not. What I can tell you is that it is a problem Ford can't even get an "official" solution for except to replace the heads if it becomes an issue. It certainly creates a better and more efficient burn. That is why they use it... time will tell.

 

[kchace]

This is called direct injection. I have it on my Ford Ecoboost pickup truck, and there is a downside to it. The issue is carbon deposits on the back side of the intake valves. In traditional injector systems, the fuel stream keeps the valves and seats clean from carbon deposits, but in direct injection motors, it cannot. Will that be an issue with an outboard? Does it get used enough to matter? Maybe or maybe not. What I can tell you is that it is a problem Ford can't even get an "official" solution for except to replace the heads if it becomes an issue. It certainly creates a better and more efficient burn. That is why they use it... time will tell.

The Etec is a 2 stroke engine - so it has no valves.

 

[bligh]

The Etec is a 2 stroke engine - so it has no valves.

Two strokes don’t have valves? How does the air get into it? How is the exhaust regulated on the way out?

 

[kchace]

Two strokes don’t have valves? How does the air get into it? How is the exhaust regulated on the way out?

Really?

 

[bligh]

Really?

Well, my snowmobile has reed valves for the air and it has these exhaust valves with springs on it that need to be cleaned every season or so. I do have an etec on a different one of my snowmobiles and I am under the impression the exhaust valves have some sort of electronic solenoid on them to control emissions. Again, I haven’t had to dismantle this motor and it’s not an outboard. But it does say etec on it.


https://www.google.com/search?q=ete...XxJDQIHbLYB2kQ_AUIESgB&biw=1112&bih=717&dpr=2

 

[kchace]

Well, my snowmobile has reed valves for the air and it has these exhaust valves with springs on it that need to be cleaned every season or so. I do have an etec on a different one of my snowmobiles and I am under the impression the exhaust valves have some sort of electronic solenoid on them to control emissions. Again, I haven’t had to dismantle this motor and it’s not an outboard. But it does say etec on it.

The reed valves help control the crankcase pressure and probably a few other nuances I'm unaware of. The exhaust "valves" in that case alter the opening size of the exhaust port at various rpms and are either throttle position or rpm controlled. There are variations for everything but a typical "ordinary" 2 stroke engine has no valves of any sort.

https://www.cycleworld.com/resizer/...aws.com/public/QD5TTKJZWZDO7N4BP72UPVXJ6E.jpg

 

[bligh]

The reed valves help control the crankcase pressure and probably a few other nuances I'm unaware of. The exhaust "valves" in that case alter the opening size of the exhaust port at various rpms and are either throttle position or rpm controlled. There are variations for everything but a typical "ordinary" 2 stroke engine has no valves of any sort.

https://www.cycleworld.com/resizer/...aws.com/public/QD5TTKJZWZDO7N4BP72UPVXJ6E.jpg

I thought the reed valves keep the combustion force from shooting back up the air/fuel intake during the combustion stroke.

 

[kchace]

I thought the reed valves keep the combustion force from shooting back up the air/fuel intake during the combustion stroke.

I'm sure they do in that design but no valves of any kind are required for a basic 2 stroke engine. And in any case the problems pointed out by Tom.B related to valve deposits in direct injection 4 stroke engines Are not relevant to 2 stroke engines.

 

[FF]

The piston operates as the valves. The exhaust port uncovers first lowing the exhaust out , then the intake uncovers allowing the fresh nixture into the culinder.

Yes the exhaust port can allow some fresh mixture to escape.

The simple mechanical solution was done by the Austrian Puch (sears in the USA) that used a split single setup , an articulated con rod to allow the exhaust to open first and close first.

The modern 2 stroke simply allows the exhaust to close last , then injects the fuel.


https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Split-single_engine

 

[Marlinmike]

From Evinrudes website: An Evinrude E-TEC engine does not require belts, camshafts or exhaust valves, which means there are fewer parts to wear down or malfunction than a four--stroke outboard.

 

[Mischief Managed]

From Evinrudes website: An Evinrude E-TEC engine does not require belts, camshafts or exhaust valves, which means there are fewer parts to wear down or malfunction than a four--stroke outboard.

15 years ago I made the decision to never buy another vehicle that had a timing belt. I hate changing timing belts and have no regrets several hundred thousand miles (I maintain 5 cars for my family) later . I intend to keep that promise to myself when I buy my next outboard. Plus two strokes are just cool.

 

[Capn Craig]

the Evinrude E-tec technology is a derivative of the old Ficht injection of the OMC Evinrude. It was probably the motivation of Bombardier buying OMC. The old Ficnt injected outboards were somewhat trouble prone Not due the technology but rather cost cutting by Evinrude who was in precarious financial condition at the time. The Ficht technology was developed by the Germans and bought by Evinrude. Bombardier / Rotax saw it as very valuable for The coming EPA regulations on emissions, This applied to snowmobiles as well as outboards. E=tec was developed and improved and implemented on both product lines. I have only had experience with the snowmobile line. They are indeed fine motors. As the rest of the industry struggled with four stroke motors which were heavy at best, Skidoo cleaned up on market share.

 

[Mischief Managed]

I thought the reed valves keep the combustion force from shooting back up the air/fuel intake during the combustion stroke.

Not exactly. The reed valves are not exposed to combustion at all. They sit between the intake manifold and the crankcase and are simply one way valves to let air into the crank case when the piston is on the way up and generating vacuum in the crankcase, and to prevent air from escaping when the piston is on the way down and pressurizing the crankcase. It's that crankcase pressure that forces air into the cylinder when the intake port opens. The pressurized air coming in displaces the combustion gases which have nowhere to go except out the exhaust port.



The whole system relies on the momentum of the air to work well too and this is where expansion chambers in the exhaust really help. Their size and shape give the exhaust gases a wonderful path of low resistance when the exhaust port first opens so the gases flow really quickly into them and then start to cool as the gases expand and exit out the exhaust pipe downstream of the expansion chamber. This creates momentum of the gases flowing out and a vacuum inside the expansion chamber that, due its size and shape, coincides perfectly with the next opening of the exhaust port which makes the exhaust gases flow really quickly etc.



It's at the RPM that the intake and exhaust ports, and expansion chambers are designed for that the engine makes best power. The downside of this is that if you aim to make all the parts work together perfectly, the engine can become very peaky, power-wise, so the ports and chambers are typically not all designed to work best at one RPM. By trading some peak HP at one narrow RPM range, the engine can be made to make a smoother power curve that's more useful in the real world. If you have ever used a chain saw, you know what a peaky two stroke feels like, it's either screaming, or bogging down like an on-off switch.



I think boat two strokes (and four strokes for that matter) create a lot of vacuum on the exhaust port by running the exhaust through the prop hub rather than through expansion chambers, which are bulky. At speed, this creates low pressure that draws the exhaust gases out. It's also not very RPM dependent.


There are a dozens of other factors that come into play with two stroke design too, I am just scratching the surface here. Gordon Jennings wrote a great book about two strokes, if you find this stuff interesting: See http://www.amrca.com/tech/tuners.pdf

 

[Capn Craig]

my last entry was much shorter than I would have liked. It was time to hit the highway
and I was holding up the admiral Not good

As to my Rubber Duck, two years ago I bought a Inmar Hypalon Aluminum hull Rib model 330 I think. I power it with an electric start 25 hp Mercury 2 Stroke. Not required power but But I already owned it, it had been bought new for a different bigger boat. I wanted to keep it, They don't sell 2 strokes anymore and I knew I had an excellent and reliable outboard. My Inmar had a 20hp rating but had a motor weight ratingof about 130 lbs . The dealer I bought it from felt that the maximum weight limit was more important than HP. so I should be good to go. I must say it runs like a scalded cat. I wouldn't trust a typical teenager with it. But that being said, I don't see a problem with too much motor if controlled responsibly. I love the boat. It is a bit narrow, but I love it. Wieght with Motor, 6 gals of gas is about 300 lbs total. Paid $3000 for it New. A deal.

 

[oscar]

This is called direct injection. I have it on my Ford Ecoboost pickup truck, and there is a downside to it. The issue is carbon deposits on the back side of the intake valves. In traditional injector systems, the fuel stream keeps the valves and seats clean from carbon deposits, but in direct injection motors, it cannot. Will that be an issue with an outboard? Does it get used enough to matter? Maybe or maybe not. What I can tell you is that it is a problem Ford can't even get an "official" solution for except to replace the heads if it becomes an issue. It certainly creates a better and more efficient burn. That is why they use it... time will tell.

Excuse the thread drift, but you need one of these for your Ecoboost. I have the same engine in my Transit 250, and I pull a shotglass of oil that would have gone into the intake out every 1500 miles.....Easy install in 10 minutes.

https://www.jlttruecoldair.com/oil-separators/

 

[FF]

"What I can tell you is that it is a problem Ford can't even get an "official" solution for except to replace the heads if it becomes an issue."

Old skool, but I would try water injection at the intake ,it usually keeps cylinder head and exhaust clean might help on intake valves.Only a $15.00 cure , so might be worth a try.