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Old 09-15-2014, 10:12 AM   #61
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how many drips in a gallon?
58,369
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Old 09-15-2014, 10:16 AM   #62
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Thanks all,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think you are also not listening very well.

I will add water sensors to the Racors. They have the hole for them and I would have caught it sooner.

It was salt water. I tasted it.

Probably won't do anything else.

Again, EVERYTHING on the boat could be better, newer, have more redundancy. In fact, why not just hire a crew to do it all.
Wait, why not just go on someone else's boat?

Dauntless has gone over 11,000 miles, 2000 engine hours and 4,000 gallons of fuel, without the engine ever stopping without human intervention.
Think what that means.

For better or for worse, this is the system I like and can afford.

Nuff said
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58,369
We love bean....errr drip, counters.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:22 AM   #63
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58,369

Patience of a saint
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:26 AM   #64
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That'll do it. That and being severely shaken (emulsified ?) is enough to get the water thru the racor. The Simms pump and the Lehman injectors are more robust than most others on engines in that size class. Being "looser" didnt hurt either. I would venture to guess that a new electronic engine would have suffered a major cat ass trophy. I know the rules say that all fills and vents must drain over board, but inboard/protected fills and vents dont have this problem and can be built to drain overboard. Just sayin. Personally, I like to open a hatch/cover plate, unscrew a 4 inch t-handle plug and fill the tank there, while looking straight down at it, tug boat like. However, with all that has been posted, and all the "i wouldnt have done it that way" opinions, the two relevant words are "done it", congratulations.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:43 AM   #65
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Thoughts??

It's very possible. But I'd still have a look at the fuel vents and vent line routing.
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Old 09-15-2014, 12:15 PM   #66
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Hi
One drop per second is one and a half gallons per day.
I think you found your culprit, however I agree with you,
look for his accomplices, if any.
Ted

ps: well done!
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Old 09-15-2014, 12:32 PM   #67
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I had a similar but not the same situation a few years ago. I thought it was the filler O-ring; it wasn't. I even thought maybe I pissed someone off to the point of sabotage. I may have, but it wasn't it either.

Turns out it was a combination of a poorly bedded fuel filler (there was a gap in the sealant) combined with a loose(ish) hose clamp on the filler hose.

Rainwater during rainy winter months went through the sealant gap and funneled into the loose filler hose. All capillary action. One drop at a time.

Discovered just off the harbour entrance when the Racor filled with water quickly.

Now when I dip my tanks, I use a dab of KolorKut on a little concave hollow on the bottom of my tank gauging stick.
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Old 09-15-2014, 01:17 PM   #68
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And so you should be. That was a fantastic voyage. And to discuss it all openly for our benefit is mighty big hearted of you. Thanks a bunch Richard, and I wish you continued success on the rest of your journey.
I'm learning... the thing done right are as important to me as the places where changes can be made. Thanks to Richard I know more and for that education I am grateful. And appreciative.
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:41 PM   #69
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Last year, I learned an important lesson in fuel cap integrity. Mine was a broken cap, but O ring integrity is just as critical.

Good advice from the posters and a good find.
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:50 PM   #70
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58,369
I'm taking that to the bank!

Thanks.
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:57 PM   #71
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That'll do it. That and being severely shaken (emulsified ?) is enough to get the water thru the racor. The Simms pump and the Lehman injectors are more robust than most others on engines in that size class. Being "looser" didnt hurt either. I would venture to guess that a new electronic engine would have suffered a major cat ass trophy. I know the rules say that all fills and vents must drain over board, but inboard/protected fills and vents dont have this problem and can be built to drain overboard. Just sayin. Personally, I like to open a hatch/cover plate, unscrew a 4 inch t-handle plug and fill the tank there, while looking straight down at it, tug boat like. However, with all that has been posted, and all the "i wouldnt have done it that way" opinions, the two relevant words are "done it", congratulations.
Thanks all.
That was my "good" tank too. I think it was the cap.

But still check both vents because if I overfill the port tank, I get fuel on the bottom of the stress the tank is in, but NOT on the top of the tank.

Guessing the vent tube is not connected to the thru gunnel vent anyone.
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:01 PM   #72
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Oh and yes, totally agree with above description. The emulsifier does help get water past the Racors, but it's also possible that in that when I saw they filter had water, some had already gone past. A real valid reason to add water alarms.

And yes, that's why I like these old engines. It was more about doing and less about marketing.
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:19 PM   #73
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Sounds and looks like you found your culprit. As in most cases it is a simple thing that will cause big issues. Glad you found it and that it did not cause more than a couple hours of increased heart rate and blood pressure!
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:46 PM   #74
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Quote:
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I had a similar but not the same situation a few years ago. I thought it was the filler O-ring; it wasn't. I even thought maybe I pissed someone off to the point of sabotage. I may have, but it wasn't it either.

Turns out it was a combination of a poorly bedded fuel filler (there was a gap in the sealant) combined with a loose(ish) hose clamp on the filler hose.

Rainwater during rainy winter months went through the sealant gap and funneled into the loose filler hose. All capillary action. One drop at a time.

Discovered just off the harbour entrance when the Racor filled with water quickly.

Now when I dip my tanks, I use a dab of KolorKut on a little concave hollow on the bottom of my tank gauging stick.


This almost exact same thing happened to a fellow three or four boats down the dock. Poorly sealed to the deck filler combined with a loose on the filler hose allowed water to get into the tank. It was fresh, not salt, but a similar problem could occur if the filler was regularily bathed in salt.
I got involved after a bit so saw the headaches.
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:48 AM   #75
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[QUOTE=Wxx3;267876]How many drips in a gallon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
58,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post
I'm taking that to the bank!

Thanks.
Don't. I was low. It's probably closer to 75,700 = 20 drops/ml x 3785 ml/US gallon.

I was using 15.42 drops to the ml because that was the number given to me by a lab tech. I didn't say water.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:12 AM   #76
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That's News I Can Use.

In any case that's in the ball park.

That would have been a drip per second for 5 days.

But it's also possible that I only took out 2.5 gal.

So again, clearly in the bp.
Well check vents this winter

Thanks for the info.
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Old 09-16-2014, 11:35 AM   #77
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On our boat , although its not a deep water boat (only 200G of fuel) the fuel fill was recognized as a danger .

My solution was to remove the deck fitting shorten the inside fill hose a couple of inches and install a nipple in the hose , with a cap then screwed on to the nipple.

The deck was cut open to accept an 8 inch bronze screw in plate.

To fuel ,the plate is unscrewed and the plumbing cap comes off with no tools, hand tight.

Should the deck plate leak from being loose , water would drip into the vessel, but the water could not crawl up under the pipe cap.

Done ,Forever, the only hassle is if the deck plate is in a companionway it needs some no skid tape for when its trod on.

Those that get PBB and have read the article on Pilot boats may have noted the lack of Raycors in the fuel supply.

The filters shown are std DD truck units .

In normal parlance they are upside down , the clear bowl on top.

They have the immense advantage , a glance will show by how high the fuel level is how plugged they are .
Fuel is low , there not plugged , look almost full, time to swop the filter.
Water can be drained with a plug pull.

Best of all over the yachty stuff is the clear bowl has a hand fitting on top, so priming is simply pouring fuel into the bowl , and replacing the top.

For folks that dont like cans of diesel sitting on board , ATF works just as well and is in cans.

IF I were going offshore I would want a fuel tank with a sump (not just a box of fuel)

OR

I would install a centrifugal fuel filter as the commercials use.

These are now built in yachty sizes tho still expensive.ALFA LAVAL may have small ones.

Either would remove all the water , (even if half of what was delivered was water) if used properly.
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:10 PM   #78
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I will ONLY use and install the Davco Detroit Diesel type of filter units. Why the "yacht" industry still uses the POS racor escapes me. Why anyone would keep the racor unit on a boat for any length of time after purchase is beyond my abilty to understand. At anytime a like new Davco 382 can be had on ebay for less than $200. They can be bought at a big truck salvage for even less. Filters can be bought by the case for less than 1 racor 1000 filter. The filter is visible and as FF said, you know exactly when it needs changed. You cant see the water/sludge with the 382, but, Davco makes another canister type filter unit with an identical clear "bowl" that attatches to the bottom (just like the one on top but no filter) with a drain valve so you can see any acumulation and drain it. On the 382 you just open the valve and let it drain until no more crap comes out. Parts/filters are available at any good truck stop in just about any developed country. And they dont leak air, unlike racors.
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:22 PM   #79
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What's the transient slip rate at your local truck stop?

Sorry couldn't resist.

I think why people haven't switched to what seems to be a better design is that Racors probably have several trillion miles of success. Sure people have some issues with them..but once done or reengineered...they are helping to add to those trillions of miles.

OK...maybe billions of miles but both sound impressive...
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:47 PM   #80
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...

I'd make sure the diesel had a mechanical fuel cutoff so the engine will keep on running even without power.
....
This is a major advantage of the old mechanical diesels. Last May, I talked to the JD engines guys at the Trawler Fest and attended their class. I specifically asked if the new engines would run if the engine computer was fried from a lightning strike or if power was lost. The answer was no.

They made it very clear that the new engines require air, fuel and POWER to run. No power and the engine will not run. Power was to be considered a consumable.

Thank you EPA. At least we don't have to go to Tier 4 engines requiring DEF. If DEF was required the boat we want would have to find space for at least a 60 gallon tank. Frankly, I would want more than 60 gallons which makes the situation worse.

Later,
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