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Old 07-01-2015, 10:40 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Wonder what criteria Yachtworld uses...they have a category for Trawlers and it's a mixed bag in there...fishing and pleasure...but over 2800 listings last I saw.


More listing people there than participating in this thread for sure....


Speaking of listings...what say the professional brokers about using the term "trawler" for a pleasure boat?
Yes, one of our good friends is a broker who specializes in "Trawlers."
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:54 PM   #122
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Yes, one of our good friends is a broker who specializes in "Trawlers."
As the promotion plot thickens.

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:24 AM   #123
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I dont think anyone here would be willing to say that they are more knowledgeable about boats than James S. Krogen was. He called the boats he designed trawlers.
I'm sure Mr. Krogen knew exactly what a real trawler is and I suspect he tried to give his boats some of the seakeeping and design attributes of the working fishing boats which in my opinion is a good design goal if you do it with integrity which he appeared to do (I don't know anything about Krogen construction quality but I like the basic design.)

I'm also sure he was no fool when it came to marketing his boats. So my guess he's one of the people to blame for hatching up the term to apply to a non-working, non-fishing recreational cruising boat in order to project the rugged, stable attributes of a real trawler onto his boats in his customers' eyes. In that respect, I think he was wrong and I believe he could have done better than to mis-use a term that had no relevance to his product.

American Marine, in the same time period, were more honest with their market and did not attempt to fool anyone into thinking their Grand Banks line of boats was anything other than what it is, "Dependable Diesel Cruisers." (The company today uses the term "trawler" but they'd be fools not to given that their market has totally bought into the hype conjured up by that label.)

What's done is done and I have no delusions of changing it. But that doesn't make it right and perhaps in the course of all this some newbie might come to appreciate the value of accuracy.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:26 AM   #124
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What's done is done and I have no delusions of changing it. But that doesn't make it right and perhaps in the course of all this some newbie might come to appreciate the value of accuracy.
Wifey B: Hate to tell you this but, in language, accuracy can be a moving target.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:34 AM   #125
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Wifey B: Hate to tell you this but, in language, accuracy can be a moving target.
My dog knows that. But that doesn't mean that every change in the use of a word is okay or right just because language evolves.

How 'bout we start calling women "gofers" since that's pretty much what they seem to do much of the time. (For those who don't know, "gofer" is a film industry term for someone who runs errands for the crew: "Go fer this, go fer that.")

I personally like the term and think it should be adopted as a standard part of the language as a replacement for two words, actually, "woman" and "wife." Both these terms are pretty crappy because they don't accurately describe a woman or what she does. They're just old-fashioned words that have hung on through the ages for no real reason. Where "gofer" is great because it paints a clear picture in one's mind of what a woman or a wife is and does.

So it's a win-win, right? We eliminate two outdated, vague terms from the language and replace them with one simple, short, and very descriptive term that leaves no doubt as to what is being described.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:51 AM   #126
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My dog knows that. But that doesn't mean that every change in the use of a word is okay or right just because language evolves.

How 'bout we start calling women "gofers" since that's pretty much what they seem to do much of the time. (For those who don't know, "gofer" is a film industry term for someone who runs errands for the crew: "Go fer this, go fer that.")

I personally like the term and think it should be adopted as a standard part of the language as a replacement for two words, actually, "woman" and "wife." Both these terms are pretty crappy because they don't accurately describe a woman or what she does. They're just old-fashioned words that have hung on through the ages for no real reason. Where "gofer" is great because it paints a clear picture in one's mind of what a woman or a wife is and does.

So it's a win-win, right? We eliminate two outdated, vague terms from the language and replace them with one simple, short, and very descriptive term that leaves no doubt as to what is being described.
Wifey B: Probably wouldn't advise that if you value your....um.....family jewels...what century are you living in where women are gofers? Surely you're jesting just to try to get me angry. I'm now going to call Marin "Abyssal"
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:52 AM   #127
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Originally - Compact Coastal Combat Vessel

No guns (armament) presently mounted

Ted

Oki had guns mounted?!? That's awesome!

I do not have a trawler. Not in any sense of the word. I am, however, very tempted to drag some nets around for no other reason than to have my boat be the only actual trawler here. Wouldn't that be a hell of a thing?
Healhustler, can you shop some net hauling gear on here for me??Click image for larger version

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:59 AM   #128
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Hmmmm............maybe because I`m hanging upside down on the bottom half of the earth my perspective is a little odd, but I cannot for the life of me see why we cling so desperately to the idea that our boats have a resemblance, either physically of performance wise to a working boat so beautifully described by Marin.

As I said in another thread "trawlers" are commercial fishing boats - normally with a high bow and minimal deck house situated well forward and huge aft working deck. Our IG 36 has a high bow but that's the only characteristic we share. I value this forum and check it daily but I`m afraid to say that our boat is and will always be a .....displacement cruiser. Sorry.

I also accept that the "Displacement Cruiser Forum" doesn`t have the same ring...

cheers
Hi Brisyboy,
Down here in NZ any power boat that is not trailerable tends to be referred to as "Launch" possibly inherited from the mother country (UK). They also definitely have a saloon (not a salon - that's where we have our hair rearranged). I wonder if the saloon became the "salon" due to the bad rep of saloons carrying over from the wild west in the USA?
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:03 AM   #129
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P.S. In NZ trawler trawls for fish.
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:25 AM   #130
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Surely you're jesting just to try to get me angry. I'm now going to call Marin "Abyssal"
Angry? Why so? A few posts ago you were defending the notion of language changing and words changing accuracy. If you're okay with "trawler" describing a boat that isn't a trawler, why would you have a problem with "gofer" describing a woman who isn't one?

Six of one, half dozen of the other, it seems to me, right?

If enough people buy into the notion of gofer being a great way to describe a woman, then it will become an accepted term and everybody will be using it. I know kids will love it. "Gofer" is a lot more fun to say than either "woman" or "wife." So they'll start saying it all the time, and then the parents, starting with dad most likely, will pick it up, and the next thing you know, gofer is the accepted, standard term for woman (and wife)

A few people--- yourself maybe--- will try to make the point that women aren't gofers because they don't run and fetch things for people all the time which is what a gofer really is, but it will be too late. Magazines will start featuring ads for all sorts of stuff that's aimed at the fashion-conscious gofer, businesses will start making policies about hiring as many gofers as men, Democrats will campaign on ending the War on Gofers, and so on.

And boat manufacturers will launch marketing campaigns specifically aimed at making trawlers more appealing to gofers.

I fail to see what possible problem you could have with this given your position on the evolution of language.
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:55 AM   #131
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I fail to see what possible problem you could have with this given your position on the evolution of language.
Wifey B: Cute, Abyssal.

If you can get it generally accepted as the appropriate descriptor, then ok, and that's the difference.

We don't have a trawler, don't trawler, but do like trawlering. As to trolling, we do occasionally but have done more bottom fishing over the years, although not big fisherpersons.

We don't like the word, "Yacht." So, it's simple. Others can use it all they want. We choose not to. But not going to go on a crusade of protest over all it's use or misuse.

Perhaps it should be illegal for definitions of words to ever be changed although not sure who would police it. I do have issues with the indiscriminate interchange and mixing of similar words without giving credence to the semantics and I don't find semantics to be unimportant. But by now the word "Trawler" was so long ago bastardized that it's a lost cause. Elvis has left the building. So you use cruiser, referring to a type of warship, for your boat and someone else can use trawler, referring to a fishing vessel and never the twain shall meet.

Now a question. If one hears something was marinised does that mean redesigned for marine use or brought to task over the use of language?

Now, good night. I'm going to trawl into bed and see what I might catch with my net.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:14 AM   #132
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So you use cruiser, referring to a type of warship, for your boat...
One again, you totally miss the point. "Cruiser" defines what the vessel does. A "battle cruiser," which is the actual correct term for the warship, not just "cruiser," is a vessel that cruises fast to a battle. This is how the term was coined in the Royal Navy prior to WWI when the British invented this type of vessel. (There is a great book on this very subject called Castles of Steel if you're interested, by the way, which I suspect you're not.)

Our boat is a "cruiser" because it cruises to places (not a battle, in our case). A trawler is not a specific type of vessel design or configuration, it's a definition of what a vessel does. It trawls for fish using trawl gear. Therefore, "trawler."

I realize this is a staggeringly complicated concept for most boaters to grasp, at least in the US (from the posts I'm seeing it appears the rest of the world is better educated in this regard). But if you think about it real hard, perhaps you'll catch a glimmer of the fact that what we're talking about is occupation, not appearance.

Good luck.

PS-- Regarding "marinized," the first thing I suggest you do is learn to spell it before you try to figure out what it means. This will go a long way toward reducing the confusion you seem to be experiencing with regards to the definition.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:44 AM   #133
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Following up on Kulas-James Krogen did not call his boats "trawlers" but "trawler yachts", to me at least a distinction with a difference, and I think to Mr. Krogen. He said more than once describing his designs that they were designed along the lines of the traditional North Sea fishing boats. Krogen still uses the term "Trawler Yachts". although sparingly, in its marketing material. "Trawler" used only to designate the function of the boat does nothing at all to describe the physical characteristics of the boat. As I walk through Fisherman's Terminal here in Seattle, I can see many boats with a pretty traditional North Sea type hull shape, some rigged as trawlers, some as crabbers, some as seiners, some as longliners. Same physical hull, different functions. If I look around for trawler rigged boats, I find almost every hull type known to mankind, even an old Owens and an old trimaran! Nordhavn likewise does not refer to its boats as "trawlers", it does describe their lineage to the traditional North Sea fishing boat. In fact, that is the source or the Nordhavn name. I think the confusion, if you will, came from the fact that most boats in that neck of the woods were trawlers, cod boats. The obvious shorthand usage to describe a recreational boat based on that hull was "trawler". If any two boats can stake a claim to "trawler", as meant in the recreational market as a derivative of the North Sea hull, it is Nordhavn and Krogen, yet neither embraces the use of the term. Admittedly the term has been bastardized over the years. Moving far beyond the old full displacement, full bilged, high bow, sheer falling to the stern North Sea hull. The part that really puzzles me is why so many companies want "trawler" as a part of their boat's marketing. The true "trawler" (with apologies to Marin) is the smallest market in larger boats. In almost 40 years, Krogen has produced around 600 boats, in 26 years, Nordhavn about the same. Hell Sea Ray does that in about 18 months. Yet, everybody wants to be a "Trawler"! Pretty soon, you will see a 30 footer with 6 250 HP Yamahas on the back and it will be a RFF Trawler! That would be a "Real Frickin' Fast" Trawler!
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:13 AM   #134
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There is a type of timber boat, often(but not always) built in Queensland, the hull is essentially one design, and most but not all boats are completed as commercial fishing trawlers,and occasionally one is finished as a pleasure cruiser. One broker, Jim Stuart, seems to often attract the listings. We can call our boats whatever we like, but the owners of the boats I mention are on firmer ground than most to use the term trawler.
I think most people with some boating knowledge have an idea of what is meant by "trawler". As a Judge I knew, struggling to define something, once said "it`s a bit like identifying a hippopotamus, hard to describe, but if you ever see one, you`ll know what it is".
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:53 AM   #135
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"I realize this is a staggeringly complicated concept for most boaters to grasp"


Thus the reason for this and so many other discussions here....


Start with a wrong assumption and go from there.....
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:31 AM   #136
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Just to be clear:

Trawl

trôl/

verb
1. fish with a trawl net or seine.
"the boats trawled for flounder"
synonyms:
fish, seine, drag a net;

noun
1. an act of fishing with a trawl net.
"they had caught two trout on the lazy trawl"

2. a large wide-mouthed fishing net dragged by a vessel along the bottom or in the mid-water of the sea or a lake.

------------------------------

Trawl-er

ˈtrôlər/

noun
1. a fishing boat used for trawling.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:46 AM   #137
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"I realize this is a staggeringly complicated concept for most boaters to grasp"


Thus the reason for this and so many other discussions here....


Start with a wrong assumption and go from there.....
Just to be clear..........
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:07 AM   #138
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From Wikipedia "A cruiser is a type of warship. The term has been in use for several hundred years, and has had different meanings throughout this period.

Didn't they know they needed prior approval before allowing words to evolve over time?
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:24 AM   #139
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I have an ad from Motor Boating and Sailing magazine November 1970 for a Krogen 50 foot Trawler Yacht....For luxuriouis offshore cruising. Not my words, thats what the add says. So, these boats were designed by one of the most respected men in the business as TRAWLERS.
No he did not call them Trawlers. He called them Trawler Yachts. And the company is called Kadey Krogen Yachts, and they still refer to the boats as trawler yachts.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:30 AM   #140
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Now that we have gone completely insane over the word trawler...lets get back to the real issue of calling it a "flybridge".....


And RTF....your turn for saloon comes up next...
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