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Old 07-01-2015, 03:57 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
I don't think it is particularly pedantic when you are describing your boat to entities like, say, the aforementioned bridge tender ...
when bridge tenders ask, I say "the boat with the yellow pilothouse roof."
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:09 PM   #82
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...
Mark, will your cannon shoot slugs? ...
Haven't seen any 10-gauge slugs on store shelves but have seen Internet ads offering them for $2 each. Still haven't seen a blackpowder version.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:17 PM   #83
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funny..all those years of SAR and assistance towing even commercial vessels...


about 99% of the time I hear Fishing Vessels call themselves fishing vessel "XYZ" ....not trawler "XYZ " or pot vessel "XYZ" or troller "XYZ" or shrimper "XYZ".....


Thankfully they don't care who uses what term...for people I wouldn't necessarily expect to know what a pleasure trawler looks like then I use it because it helps more than hurts... using trawler helps distinguish me from the pack.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:50 PM   #84
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..for people I wouldn't necessarily expect to know what a pleasure trawler looks like then I use it because it helps more than hurts... using trawler helps distinguish me from the pack.
Only in your own mind. Look at the avatar photos on this forum alone. Everything from Sea Rays to Bayliners to Sabres to Nordic Tugs to trailer boats to Nordhavns, all considering themselves a "trawler." Look at the boat ads. Every style of boat imaginable is being called by their manufacturer or ad agency a "trawler."

So calling yourself a "trawler" does not distinguish you from the pack, it puts you right smack in the middle of an amorphous crowd. You tell me you have a "trawler." So what do you have? A Bayliner 3888? A Grand Banks 42? A Tollycraft 34? An Eastbay? A Nordic Tug? A Carver sun deck? A Willard? A Uniflite Mega? A Sea Ray?

Get the picture? Every one of these boats is now considered to be a "trawler." So telling me that you have a "trawler" tells me absolutely zip about your boat.

So far Mark is the only one here who has described an intelligent way to describe his boat to a bridge tender.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:03 PM   #85
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Only in your own mind. Look at the avatar photos on this forum alone. Everything from Sea Rays to Bayliners to Sabres to Nordic Tugs to trailer boats to Nordhavns, all considering themselves a "trawler." Look at the boat ads. Every style of boat imaginable is being called by their manufacturer or ad agency a "trawler."
Yup...seems NONE of us have Trawlers it seems (except in our minds!)

(28' Diesel Power Cruiser here!)

If I had a yellow roof (or pink or red,or blue) I could more accurately describe my vessel!
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:12 PM   #86
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...
If I had a yellow roof (or pink or red,or blue) I could more accurately describe my vessel!
Yup, saying "I'm the white boat" usually won't help.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:28 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
funny..all those years of SAR and assistance towing even commercial vessels...


about 99% of the time I hear Fishing Vessels call themselves fishing vessel "XYZ" ....not trawler "XYZ " or pot vessel "XYZ" or troller "XYZ" or shrimper "XYZ".....


Thankfully they don't care who uses what term...for people I wouldn't necessarily expect to know what a pleasure trawler looks like then I use it because it helps more than hurts... using trawler helps distinguish me from the pack.
You missed the point, think again. By the way I have heard them refer to themselves as trawlers, as well as scallopers, seiners et al. ;though by default they are indeed fishing vessels (which in the rules are defined as commercial type vessels, not anyone fishing) so its somewhat redundant. Again, I see nothing wrong with calling yourself a trawler style power boat if that floats your boat.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:37 PM   #88
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I find the notion of applying the term "trawler" to a recreational cabin cruiser to be ludicrous given what "trawl," "trawling," and "trawler" actually mean. To say that there are "fishing trawlers" and "recreational trawlers" is simply silly. That's like using the term "commercial airliner" to describe a Cessna 150.

I fully understand the reason why the term "trawler" has become applied to recreational boats, but to actually defend what in fact originated as a marketing scam is, to me, a fairly ignorant position to take. Why perpetuate a totally bogus description instead of defining one's boat accurately as Mark and the manufacturer of his boat have done?
Wifey B: I think Marin was one of my college professors. However, when one gets into Etymology, the list of words that have been taken to different meanings vs. their origins will drive you like completely bat crazy if you take it too seriously. Madam, a perfectly innocent and respectful word until it becomes a procurer of prostitutes. The word "Nice" is from the Latin for ignorant.

Oh and car enthusiasts can argue for hours over what is a "Sports Car."

The key is whether the word is effective in communication and whether the speaker and listener will interpret it the same. So in this situation, it's like if you say Trawler will the other person know what you mean. Well, I think quickly here they will know you're not meaning you own a fishing boat. Will it though clue them in to the type boat? Does Cruiser? I don't think Trawler or Cruiser either one does it better. They're both general and vague. It's going to take naming the brand or further expanding.

But the bit about trawler being inappropriate outside fishing, I'm like "get over it, dudes". No one here is confused thinking that the forum is about fishing. Everyone here had some vision of trawler that told them they belonged here.

Now, we don't have a trawler by any definitions but we are into "Trawlering"" although we might be an abomination of that as we're into "fast trawlering." But then Beneteau has used the term "Swift Trawler" quite successfully and the use of that term immediately gave most who saw it a picture of what they were trying to accomplish.

What image or distinction do you get with the use of the term "Trawlering" vs. "Cruising?" I immediately get a feeling of slower power boating where as Cruising sounds broader and even includes those funny boats with the things sticking up in the air trying to catch the wind so they can move.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:40 PM   #89
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Only about half the boats here are trawlers Marin.

And Kevin,
Coastal Cruiser is'nt a time homered name at all. It was because a lot of boats that wer'nt trawlers being called trawlers because the owners wanted into the trawler group. So the expression Coastal Cruiser was coined to identify those cruisers that wanted in the club but didn't have the credentials but needed a name that implied some sort of importance. "Coastal" implying that they cruised far and wide along the coast ... not just fishing out at the point. But Heavy Cruiser already had this covered. They just forgot about that.
I could be wrong about this so tell me if I am.

Marin you say your OB boat is a sport fishing boat. What makes it "sport" and what features make it a fishing boat. Looks like just a boat to me.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:50 PM   #90
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But the bit about trawler being inappropriate outside fishing, I'm like "get over it, dudes". No one here is confused thinking that the forum is about fishing.
I don't think anyone here is confused about whether or not they have a fishing boat. They're just using the language in a dumb-ass way.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:54 PM   #91
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Only about half the boats here are trawlers Marin.
Really? Well then the commercial fishermen on this forum are certainly keeping a low profile.

I'm surprised at you, Eric. I always figured you were way too smart and way too knowledgable to fall for this "recreational trawler" BS. Of all the people on here, I figured you were one of the few that recognized the difference between an accurate description of a boat and a hyped up marketing scam because your background is based in the reality of boats, not the marketing crap dreamed up to fool buyers into thinking they were getting something that they weren't.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:00 PM   #92
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Bet you the commercial fisherman checking out the Trawler Forum quickly realize we're not discussing fishing trawlers here.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:02 PM   #93
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I don't think anyone here is confused about whether or not they have a fishing boat. They're just using the language in a dumb-ass way.
Wifey B: By that argument, much language is used in a dumb-ass way. But if it works, I say it's not dumb-ass. I might say arguing over what a Trawler is qualifies as dumb-ass.

Language changes. New words are created. The use of existing words changes over time. However, once a word becomes generally accepted and conveys it's intended meaning, I don't personally call it dumb-ass anymore.

Are you this way with all words or just "trawler?"

I understand you can't help yourself. It's like my hubby when he sees pictures hanging uneven on a wall or a tilted picture. Really hard for him to resist doing anything and he notices them all. Of course that skill of observation helps in other ways. I'm sure your insistence on precision and adherence to the origins in language is a part of your brain's inner workings that helps you immensely in other ways.

The words "troll" and "trolling" have to drive you crazy. Their uses are so extremely disparate.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:13 PM   #94
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When I ordered my boat, I didn't know the Chapman definition of a "recreational trawler." I bought it because the boat fit my primary criteria (price, size/accommodations, railings, decks and their access, etcetera).
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:20 PM   #95
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Marin you say your OB boat is a sport fishing boat. What makes it "sport" and what features make it a fishing boat. Looks like just a boat to me.
I'm beginning to feel like a bloody first grade teacher here......

SPORT per Webster's Dictionary: To play in a happy and lively way.

FISHING per Webster's Dictionary: The sport or business of catching fish.

What features make this particular boat a fishing boat? Well, it's designed specifically to accommodate downriggers and rod holders, it has a large fish well and two bait tanks built in, and the designer and manufacturer, Mr. Juichi Arima, said that his intent was to design a sportfishing boat.

Now if I used the boat for commercial fishing I would call it fishing boat. But since I use it for non-commercial fishing, aka sport fishing, a form of play, I call it a sport-fishing boat.

To help you with the concept of catching fish for fun, aka sport, I have attached the following photos. While I realize the creatures I am holding in each photo appear quite different from each other, I can assure you that both of them are, indeed, fish. (If you want more than just my word for this I can refer you to some ichthyology reference books.)

I was not paid to catch either one of these fish, nor did I sell them. Nor do I have a commercial BC fishing license. Therefore, I was not fishing commercially, I was fishing for SPORT (see the definition above).

Oh, one more thing since I know you'll call me on it at some point. I refer to my boat as an OUTBOARD sportfishing boat, right? Here's why.

OUTBOARD MOTOR per Webster's Dictionary: A small, internal combustion engine with propeller integrally attached for mounting at the stern of a small boat. (This definition is a bit vague because "small" is open to interpretation. I would not consider a 300 hp Yamaha to be a "small" engine, nor would I consider a nearly-30-foot Grady White to be a "small boat.")

But regardless of the "small" business, our boat is an OUTBOARD boat because there are two of them mounted on the transom.

I hope I have cleared up your confusion, at least to a degree.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:28 PM   #96
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Are you this way with all words or just "trawler?"

.
So far as I know right now, just "trawler." As I've said (already) I use words today that didn't exist 30 years ago and that's fine. I have no problem with the evolution of a language where the evolution makes sense.

What I have a problem with are words that have a long-established meaning with absolutely no reason to change that meaning that get bastardized by some manufactures and marketing people as a way to fool people into thinking they're getting a better product, a boat in this case, than they actually are.

Calling your boat, whatever it is, a trawler is the end result of nothing more than what started out as a marketing scam. You're too lazy or ignorant or simply don't care enough to call your boat what it really is, which isn't a trawler unless you and your husband are actually out fishing with trawl gear.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:45 PM   #97
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:00 PM   #98
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People come to the Trawler Forum, to trawl for answers to boating questions. Some trawl for ideas, some trawl just for fun and some trawl for boating related problems that others have found a cure for. So surely that makes all of us trawlers by definition?
Now some of us are slim, some short, some a little wide amidships, some fast and some pretty slow....but we are all still trawlers defined by what we do. Trawl on the Trawler Forum.


Applying this logic to boats, if we trawl for fish, we have a fishing trawler....if we trawl for pleasure, we have pleasure trawlers. Simple huh?
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:21 PM   #99
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People come to the Trawler Forum, to trawl for answers to boating questions. Some trawl for ideas, some trawl just for fun and some trawl for boating related problems that others have found a cure for. So surely that makes all of us trawlers by definition?
Well, in that context, I think you're right.
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:32 PM   #100
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OK Good Marin,
Haven't seen one of your OB boats up close but since it has specialized stuff for fishing it is indeed a "Sport Fishing Boat" and I stand corrected.

Guess I'm not as smart as you thought (thanks anyway) but I'm fall'in hook line and sinker (since you're a fisherman) for the "recreational trawler BS". As it conforms to the word "vernacular" in word usage. When I talk to people and use the word trawler most everyone knows exactly what I mean ... Recreational Trawler. Often I'm surpprised that so many know what it means. And since they do ...... that's what it means. And when you want to talk about commercial fishing trawlers you need to announce that the subject is commercial trawlers and not rec trawlers because 9 out of 10 will assume you're talk'in rec trawlers ... because that's what comes to mind when you use the word. Try it.
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