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Old 06-15-2010, 05:10 PM   #21
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Arctic Traveller---

Your memory is good. The boat is on Lake Tahoe (or was when the photo was taken-- I got it off the web) and its name is "Thunderbird."

The PTs of WWII were powered with three Packard 4M-2500 V-12 marine engines of 1,200 horsepower each (raised later in the war to 1,500 hp). At max boat speed each engine burned 158 gallons per hour of high octane aviation fuel. With a total tank capacity of 3,000 gallons, this gave the boat*an endurance of a little over six hours.

At "normal" cruise speeds of 30-35 mph, each engine burned 97 gallons per hour for a max endurance of about 10 hours.

That was with a new boat from the factory. Given the accumulation of marine growth in the field*and the tendency of their crews to weigh the boats*down with additional guns (by the end of the war the PTs were the heaviest armed vessels*in the US Navy pound for pound), the fuel consumption in reality*was somewhat higher.

Of course if the engines were throttled down or shut off on station or when idling along the islands looking for targets, the fuel consumption went down accordingly. But in the Pacific theatre where the boats were used almost exclusively at night, a full load of fuel was sufficent for one mission only. At most of the PT bases, fuel was loaded into the PTs from 50 gallon drums, often with just a hand pump.



-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 15th of June 2010 07:20:55 PM
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:24 AM   #22
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I may be in trouble!

The fast boat vs slow boat/ Marin vs Baker discussion will always be a point of contention. If everyone who owns a slow boat could go fast just this once, wouldn't you? But the argument is not that simple. A slow boat is economical, and many times more sea worthy. A fast boat will allow you more destinations on a limited time budget, but will require you to watch the weather and budget your fuel costs. A slow boat can only go slow, a fast boat can be operated slowly to save fuel. A fast boat has high performance engines (at least in diesels) and they have their own issues.
The debate goes on and on, and there is no right answer.

For me I chose a fast boat (if 25 kts is considered fast) because my wife didn't like anything else we saw. It had nothing to do with speed, but everything to do with keeping the admiral happy knowing she's more likely to want to use the boat if she's happy.




-- Edited by timjet on Wednesday 16th of June 2010 05:28:28 AM
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:43 AM   #23
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RE: I may be in trouble!

Marin, coming back the fast versus slow issue, there is one other negative to be considered....I raise it because it is quite an issue here in Moreton bay, where we have a lot of dugong (manatee to you), turtles and dolphins, and that is...the boating equivalent of road-kill is quite an issue. How does that rate in the places you cruise?
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:18 AM   #24
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One unexpected benefit of this site is that you learn how to speak 'stralian!!!!... Yes, manantees are an issue in Florida...I even think they have manatee zones where you must go slow.

-- Edited by Baker on Wednesday 16th of June 2010 07:19:59 AM
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:49 AM   #25
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RE: I may be in trouble!

Quote:
timjet wrote:A slow boat is economical, and many times more sea worthy.
Faster can definately be more comfortable. By way of example, a few years ago I ran a 50 ft Delta on daily fishing trips into the Gulf of Alaska.* We went out about 60 miles in all types of weather.* Some days were particuarlly crummy, with big seas and high winds, and there were plenty of times I was quite happy to be in the high speed (20 plus knots) Delta rather than my full displacement Defever.* My trawler would have been wallowing all over the compass rose, but the Delta tracked perfectly straight, and required minimal steering input in almost all sea states (while at speed).* Where my boat would have been pitching up and down like crazy, the high speed Delta simply climbed up and over the swells.* On the other hand, I sure wouldn't have wanted to pay the fuel bill, and living aboard would not have been fun.........Arctic Traveller
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:23 AM   #26
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RE: I may be in trouble!

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

the boating equivalent of road-kill is quite an issue. How does that rate in the places you cruise?
You bring up a very good point with regard to going fast in areas where animals could be killed or wounded.* This is not a problem in our waters.* All the mammals in our area are fast--- orcas, porpoises, dolphins, seals, and diving seabirds--- and they are quick to get out of the way if something is coming.* There are larger whales in the region--- gray, minke, and humpback--- but they are relatively rare in the inside waters.* In the twenty-plus years we've been boating in this area, first in the 30 mph Arima and now in both that and the GB, I've never heard of anyone striking an animal with a recreational boat although I suppose it must have happened at some point.

The most numerous powerboats up here are the semi-planing boats like Bayliners/Meridians that cruise around in the 12 to 15 or more knot range.* So far as I know, at these speeds collisions with marine life is a non-issue.

We make it a point in both the Arima and the GB to steer around flocks of seabirds on the water ever since we learned in a wildlife seminar awhile back that birds use a lot of energy to fly, particularly the diving birds that aren't very efficient flyers like cormorants and the like.* So we try to steer around them early enough not to alarm them into flight.* Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't-- cormorants are very skittery by nature and tend to take flight no matter what.

But in areas where slow-moving animals like manatees can easily be hit by fast boats, sure, I agree that the boaters should slow down to a crawl if that's what it takes to avoid hitting the animals.* There's nothing they can do to avoid a collision so it's up to us to keep them safe, as inconvenient as I know it is to those boaters who are always in an "it's all about me" hurry.

*
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:51 PM   #27
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Arctic Traveller,I agree. Very much so. Trawler speeds are rather like wallowing as you point out. But Marin is right too, up to a point. 25, 35 and 50 knots is great as long as it's comfortable but w lots of noise, pounding and stress the joy of speed only lasts so long. I'm a tweener on this one. I could go 50 knots from Juneau to Petersburg (120mi?) in a flat calm and in a cabin but how long is calm going to last? Twelve knots is perfect for me. I got the Willy to go in most weather all day for a week or two without worrying a bit about fuel burn. So far in Alaska I've not spent the time on the water to worry about 2 or even 3gph. Should have got a Nordy as it seems the under loading issue may not be as much of a problem (or no problem at all) and I'm having trouble finding enough time to burn fuel. I think there's only one guy on TF that has a Nordic Tug * * *..Doc * * is that right? Why so few w such a popular boat I wonder. But w the issue of the joy being in the trip or the destination * * * ..THE TRIP. When I was in college I had a girlfriend w a father w a 36' 3 cabin Chris. Karen and I were on the aft cabin in the sun one day and she said "hey * ..you really enjoy this underway stuff don't you". My answer came w a big smile. Long passages at 12 to 15 knots for me please.


Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Wednesday 16th of June 2010 05:53:57 PM
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:29 AM   #28
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RE: I may be in trouble!

Thunderbird is one of my favorite boats.

She has mirrors on both internal bulkheads in the main cabin ,

and the spacing of the windows is Perfect to create the optical illusion that the cabin goes to infinity!!

Talk about EYE CANDY!
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:39 AM   #29
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RE: I may be in trouble!

Was Thunderbird once owned by Bill Harrah? In any event, although I've never seen it in person I've salivated over various magazine coverages over the years.
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:59 AM   #30
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RE: I may be in trouble!

A slow boat is economical, and many times more sea worthy.

That's a huge stretch that might be true , but usually with pleasure boats is NOT.

Sea worthy costs 300% more to create in the boat , most folks prefer looks , and volume to sea worthy.
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