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Old 11-09-2019, 04:41 PM   #121
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Sounds like a police state to me.
I don't know what's more frightening, that or the fact that you seem to accept it as normal.
20-30 years ago, things were totally different. Sadly, things have changed and not for the good. USCG was moved to DHS after 9-11.
They are looking for drugs, illegals, and no doubt a number of other things. Yet these same people take time to pull our fat out of the fires.
I guess we just have to suck it up for now.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:07 PM   #122
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A”police state”? Puleez. That is ridiculous. Some people have no idea what a true “police state” encompasses.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:08 PM   #123
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I was stationed in Miami in the early 80s iit was the wild west back then with the drug war really ramping up.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:20 PM   #124
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I was boarded today

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I was stationed in Miami in the early 80s iit was the wild west back then with the drug war really ramping up.


Late ‘70’s i was living and working in Ft Lauderdale. Lots of aircraft skid marks on the western highways. Starting mid ‘80’s , was flying small planes to the islands. Some islands used dozers to clear runways from columbian wrecks. I was using heavy chain around my prop to prevent theft. Hawks nest and andros were interesting trips. Locked out of normans during this time.

Oh yeah; i had to hand apply 12” numbers on my rental aircraft to enable DEA id. Used duck tape. Great times.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:36 PM   #125
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Just a point of clarification, the case cited in this and many other discussions about LE boardings, UNITED STATES v. VILLAMONTE-MARQUEZ(1983), is actually a US Customs case concerning a 40 ft sailboat (which most would consider recreational size) that was anchored near Lake Charles, La. This case went to the Supreme Court and was upheld.
So anyone considering refusing a boarding or any other silly idea and then taking it to the Supreme Court should know that that question has already been asked AND answered by the highest court.
Have you read that decision? First of all, it depended on the waterway having ready access to the sea, so would not apply at some distance from the ocean or on a lake. Second, it was a split decision (6-3) with a well reasoned dissent, rendered almost 40 years ago, which itself reversed precedent. Third, the boat in question was foreign registered and crewed, and happened to have 5800 lbs of ganga on board. None of the justices who decided that case are still on the court (though the attorney who argued it, is). A heck of a lot of legal scholars believe the decision was flawed.

So saying that this has been finally decided is hardly the case. There is certainly a reasonable possibility that it might be reversed today, especially under different facts.

Now, I'm not going to refuse the boarding because defending that refusal would take a lot of time and money, and might not succeed. If I was wealth enough I would give it a go.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:12 PM   #126
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A”police state”? Puleez. That is ridiculous. Some people have no idea what a true “police state” encompasses.
So just because you are not as bad as the worlds worst examples makes it all good?

Sure glad we dont have to put up with that sort of crap here.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:17 PM   #127
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I'll stand by my original position in stating that I have no objection to being boarded by any law enforcement cops. I have zero to hide and not afraid of a boarding for safety equipment check, documentation check, etc.


Now, all that being said, if they boarded to do a safety check and started opening cupboards, drawers, etc., I would call bullsh!it on them and question their PC to do a search as opposed to their stated reason for the stop which was a safety equipment check.


Lacking any justification for a search vs safety check, I would ask to speak to their supervisor to ask his opinion.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:19 PM   #128
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Sounds like a police state to me.
I don't know what's more frightening, that or the fact that you seem to accept it as normal.
Who secures your waterways, and what powers do they have?

As I seem to remember, given Monday's date, and the movie Midway coming out, you used to rely on others.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:42 PM   #129
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Who secures your waterways, and what powers do they have?
Water Police, Border Force and the Navy.
None of which would board an Australian vessel, unannounced unless they have a very very good reason.


Quote:

As I seem to remember, given Monday's date, and the movie Midway coming out, you used to rely on others
.

Australia had been fighting WW2 for several years before America came in and the only reason America did was because Pearl Harbour was bombed.

America came after the Japanese, who just happened to be playing silly buggers at the time on our side of the planet.
I daresay if the Japanese were attacking US ground Australia may never have seen US forces over here.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:46 PM   #130
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Water Police, Border Force and the Navy.
None of which would board an Australian vessel, unannounced unless they have a very very good reason.


.

Australia had been fighting WW2 for several years before America came in and the only reason America did was because Pearl Harbour was bombed.

America came after the Japanese, who just happened to be playing silly buggers at the time on our side of the planet.
I daresay if the Japanese were attacking US ground Australia may never have seen US forces over here.
I'm British. See any of them over there during WW!!?
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:55 PM   #131
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I'm British. See any of them over there during WW!!?
They were a bit late in coming but they got over here eventually

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/...064556404.html

Apparently they had a bit on their plate at the time with their own country getting bombed daily by German forces.

Not that any of the above has anything to do with the post in question.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:49 PM   #132
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Not that any of the above has anything to do with the post in question.
The fact I am trying to make is that, as an Irishman, Brit, and American, I can recognize the fact that it doesn't really matter when the Americans came in, what brought them in, or what nationality on the Allied side they were defending - if they hadn't come in when they did, you would probably be speaking Japanese now. And eating things that were still alive.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:17 PM   #133
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if they hadn't come in when they did, you would probably be speaking Japanese now. And eating things that were still alive.
And strangely enough, 74 years after the fact it most likely wouldn't worry me in the slightest as Japanese cuisine is my 2nd favourite food type and Australia would at least have the desperately needed high speed rail.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:52 AM   #134
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No we acknowledge that it is part of the law under which we live. Most other countries have similar laws as it relates to Customs officers searching for contraband.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:06 AM   #135
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I enforce laws, so yeah, I kinda follow them. To say that the U.S. is a police state is not only ludicrous and laughable. It’s insulting. We have the most liberties and freedoms of any nation on the globe. Our founders created the 2nd and 4th to ensure those liberties and freedoms would never be infringed, removed, altered or eliminated....
The mechanisms may exist but viewed externally with disinterest (as defined),it resembles a dictatorship.
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Old 11-10-2019, 02:05 AM   #136
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Well just catching up on this "interesting" thread! Some pure nonsense from some, smart stuff from others. Think I will decline from quoting others so as not to ruffle feathers, which I have been known to do on occasion!
While I recognize the unfortunate absolute right of the CG to board any vessel afloat on any whim, and that's exactly what it is, I still contend it should NOT be allowed without some reason beyond bogus safety checks.
I have not been boarded but if I am I will comply because I enjoy my freedom, but would still squeak pretty loudly if I was boarded at night or in a less than up front fashion, as there is no excuse for that type of BS for a "safety check".


And that stuff about yes sir, no sir? Well, as the Duke might say, "that'll be the day".
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:42 AM   #137
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...Imagine the outcome had previous owners left some pot on board in a place I head not thought to look.
When I worked for the USAF, if you bought a used car it was strongly suggested that you bring it to the base and have it searched by the MPs and their dogs. If you could show that you just bought it, they'd give you a pass if they found anything (they disposed of anything they found). After that or if you didn't have this search done and you got caught with illicit substances in one of the random searches they performed, you could be in deep sh!t if something was discovered.

They would probably do the same thing for boats if there was an on base boat storage or marina.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:47 AM   #138
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Can't say I have ever seen anything with LEOs involved on media that didn't have guns involved, I thought it was standard practice.
Also the whole thread mentions guns and bullets so forgive me if I was somehow mistaken.
Ah, the media.

Wouldn't they be showing criminal incidents - and no reason to show non-incidents (i.e. daily life)?
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:58 AM   #139
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Greetings,
Mr. m. "(i.e. daily life)" Indeed but it seems that there appears to be a larger number of incidences of LEO's overreacting or mistaking law abiding citizens for "the bad guys", sometimes with fatal results, in the US than in other countries. Yes, media but it can't be reported if it didn't happen. I don' think the media is making this stuff up.

Law enforcement is a thankless job where there is a potential in EVERY dealing with John Q Public that the LEO is harmed or killed due to unknowns. It's no wonder that some LEO's have taken upon themselves to act aggressively. Self preservation in all cases IMO.


Unfortunately, bad press or bad cops has caused LEO's to be painted with the broad "They're ALL bad" brush.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:03 AM   #140
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There is a huge difference where LEOs make mistakes or there is a tiny fraction of cowbows and a police state where the Leo's have permission to disobey the law.

While it seems like a large number of incidents.......compared to the non-incident stops/arrests every day.... I think the number is tiny.

Just look at the vast number of USCG boardings reported as great or professional compared to the number of "incident" boardings.
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