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Old 09-18-2015, 06:35 AM   #21
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Happily our boat is behind out FL house.

Hurricane prep, cross lines to pilings dug into the lawn , and a couple of big fenders is it.

Of course there are 3 locks preventing much water rise ,,,(10 inches not 10 ft) so watching from 1500 miles away is no hassle.

Should Lake O blow out again , it would be a hassle tho.
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:39 AM   #22
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When I lived in SE NC, just above Little River, SC, we did the up the river thing, going up the Shallotte River as far as we could and tying off to trees. If you are in a marina with floating docks, pay attention to how tall the pilings are, I have seen the storm surge push the floating docks higher than the pilings, that is a real catastrophe for all. Other than that, all the normal stuff, nothing loose, all canvas down, and the like. Don't have those problems now in the PNW! We are only worried about tsunamis from "The Big One" that is predicted.
I have a camp that is 12 ft over the water and faces the marina that I have my slip in. Camp has gone through Hurricane Audry and a few others I can't recall (Built in the 50's). I've had all kinds of boats stuck under my camp after storm surges that break loose from they're moorings (not floating docks), so I don't leave my boat in the marina for fear of another boat or flying objects damaging mine. A lot of dock queens in the marina that owners don't properly take precautions for a storm-undersized lines, etc. So away I go-luckily we get a good early warning of an approaching storm.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:25 AM   #23
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Should Lake O blow out again.
Can you elaborate on that?
I know Lake O, but what do you mean, blow out again and what happened last time?
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:41 AM   #24
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Since lake is so shallow, the wind blows the water all to one side.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:05 PM   #25
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Can you elaborate on that?
I know Lake O, but what do you mean, blow out again and what happened last time?
I think FF is alluding to a hurricane that hit Lake Okeechobee in the late 20s. The hurricane was one of the worst storms to hit the US and it killed 2,000-3,000, maybe more, nobody really knows. The area was hard hit and many bodies went into the Everglades. Areas around the lake flooded, usually the south end of the lake is mentioned even though areas on the north were also flooded out as well. I don't know why the northern flooding is not mentioned very often, maybe because most of the deaths occurred on the south end of the lake.

A huge dike was built on the south side of the lake under President Hoover and it is pretty impressive. This part of Florida is flat, low lying and there are no real high spots. The storm had 20 foot flood waters in some areas which is hard to comprehend given how flat it is around and south of the lake.

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Old 09-18-2015, 12:23 PM   #26
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I think FF is alluding to a hurricane that hit Lake Okeechobee in the late 20s.
Thanks Dan.
Never heard that story.
Knowing how low it is and how relatively shallow the Lake is, I wondered if it was wind, rain, a breach or all of the above.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:20 PM   #27
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Thanks Dan.
Never heard that story.
Knowing how low it is and how relatively shallow the Lake is, I wondered if it was wind, rain, a breach or all of the above.
I have always wondered if rainfall was part of the flooding but what is always stated is the wind blowing the water across the lake and flooding the south shore. There was a small dike that got overwhelmed by the flood and I suspect the rushing water from the breached dike killed many people.

After seeing what Hurricane Floyd did to eastern NC, it really made me wonder about the hurricane flooding around Lake Okeechobee. Floyd was a 500 year flood event and I saw stuff in tree tops 15-20 feet above the ground. I wonder about the rainfall during the Okeechobee storm but the amount is never mentioned, only how hard the rain was on the survivors. Given the devastation, I don't think they were checking rain gauges.

The majority of flooding I saw in Floyd was slow increase and then decrease in water height. Houses did not suffer structural damage as a result. There were two exceptions I saw, one being hear a low point in a rail road track which acted like a dike. The water flowed through that low spot and destroyed an old mobile home that was strapped down to prevent the trailer from blowing away. The trailer did not blow away but the rushing water destroyed it. Thankfully, the occupant, a grandma, got out to high ground. The area was in a very low area, with hundreds of homes which were all flooded but nobody died. They barely had time to leave their homes to get to high ground though. High ground was just a short walk away and many people left their cars to get to safety.

The area was filled with multiple generations and they all lost their homes and belongings. Funny thing was there was a grocery store that just managed to be above the flood waters. These people had nothing. The National Guard was cooking food. The Red Cross was driving around handing out food in containers. The Mennonites had a relief center set up handing out clothes before the flood waters had receeded. I have NO idea where the heck the Mennonites came from but they were a huge help and blessing. The Baptists moved in to help rebuild as well. That grocery store was never robbed even though the survivors had nothing except what other people brought in to them.

Floyd would have killed more people if it had hit FLA or some place low and flat. Some areas I saw in NC had 12-18 inches of rain but one could get to high ground pretty easily compared to say South Florida. Help was able to move in very quickly after the storm because the terrain limited the areas flooded but a Floyd like storm in South FLA would be a horrible disaster.

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Old 09-18-2015, 04:18 PM   #28
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Storm surge is a function of wind. It is then added to by tide stage; surprisingly rain is usually less of a factor until after the winds die down. Here's a really cool tool for calculating storm surge by category of hurricane by location. I cued up GA, SC and NC as an example but they have them for all hurricane prone areas.

GA SC NC Storm Surge | Weather Underground
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:40 PM   #29
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I think that I prefer our hurricanes.
ya me too....

World's Biggest Tsunami | 1720 feet-tall - Lituya Bay, Alaska
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:53 PM   #30
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I have always wondered if rainfall was part of the flooding but what is always stated is the wind blowing the water across the lake and flooding the south shore. There was a small dike that got overwhelmed by the flood and I suspect the rushing water from the breached dike killed many people.

After seeing what Hurricane Floyd did to eastern NC, it really made me wonder about the hurricane flooding around Lake Okeechobee. Floyd was a 500 year flood event and I saw stuff in tree tops 15-20 feet above the ground. I wonder about the rainfall during the Okeechobee storm but the amount is never mentioned, only how hard the rain was on the survivors. Given the devastation, I don't think they were checking rain gauges.

The majority of flooding I saw in Floyd was slow increase and then decrease in water height. Houses did not suffer structural damage as a result. There were two exceptions I saw, one being hear a low point in a rail road track which acted like a dike. The water flowed through that low spot and destroyed an old mobile home that was strapped down to prevent the trailer from blowing away. The trailer did not blow away but the rushing water destroyed it. Thankfully, the occupant, a grandma, got out to high ground. The area was in a very low area, with hundreds of homes which were all flooded but nobody died. They barely had time to leave their homes to get to high ground though. High ground was just a short walk away and many people left their cars to get to safety.

The area was filled with multiple generations and they all lost their homes and belongings. Funny thing was there was a grocery store that just managed to be above the flood waters. These people had nothing. The National Guard was cooking food. The Red Cross was driving around handing out food in containers. The Mennonites had a relief center set up handing out clothes before the flood waters had receeded. I have NO idea where the heck the Mennonites came from but they were a huge help and blessing. The Baptists moved in to help rebuild as well. That grocery store was never robbed even though the survivors had nothing except what other people brought in to them.

Floyd would have killed more people if it had hit FLA or some place low and flat. Some areas I saw in NC had 12-18 inches of rain but one could get to high ground pretty easily compared to say South Florida. Help was able to move in very quickly after the storm because the terrain limited the areas flooded but a Floyd like storm in South FLA would be a horrible disaster.

Later,
Dan
What happened with Floyd is that coastal nc is pretty flat, but not that flat. Creeks and bogs and rivers are a good bit lower than adjacent land. If it was truly flat, 18" of rain would mean 18" of water uniformly distributed. The "slightly lower" areas, all the water went toward them so anything near a creek or river was now under 10' of water. It was truly a mess.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:06 PM   #31
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Can't take my boat that far inland but 10 miles up north of Lake Ponchatrain is about my limit with bridge and depth restrictions...
However, I would not stay onboard during any cat. storm. Not worth putting your life in harms way. Several friends thought this would be a great adventure staying on board their 53ft boat holed up in the ICW during Ivan. Lets just say they won't be doing it again.
I have never talked to anyone who rode out a storm that would do it again.

One guy said 'That's what insurance is for.'

The term "chicken leg in a shake-and-bake bag" was used more than once.

I have not been through a bad one and hopefully will learn from others...
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:47 PM   #32
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Bennett Brothers is great and does offer land storage, but Jarrett Bay may be the best at land hurricane storage there is.

We live just off the ICW but the history here of surge is not that much. We also have access to slips away from our home. They are not far up river, just a bit protected and not in the open. We know one day that big hurricane may hit but hurricanes with major impact on boats here are a lot less common than one might believe.

As to insurance, we have no requirements as to hurricane action. We did present a hurricane plan but it made it clear that we had no obligation to do or even attempt anything in that plan. We'll do what we consider prudent in the given situation but will never risk a life over our boat. The area in which we live was reclassified a year or so ago and is no longer in the high flood zone.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:00 AM   #33
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I have never talked to anyone who rode out a storm that would do it again.

One guy said 'That's what insurance is for.'

The term "chicken leg in a shake-and-bake bag" was used more than once.

I have not been through a bad one and hopefully will learn from others...
I've ridden out two cyclones onboard and would do it again. Once was in a marina where I found the biggest problem was other peoples poorly secured boats. If I hadn't gone out and re-secured the boat next to mine it would have broken free and smashed into mine. The other big problem I have seen in marinas is if the storm hits on the high tide the storm surge will float the marina pontoons right over the tops of the piles if they are not secured properly and then there is not much anyone can do.
My preference would be what I did in the other cyclone onboard and was to go up a smallish creek tied off to the trees or mangroves.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:42 AM   #34
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Lake O now has a dirt berm , which is constantly under repair to not breech...

The level of the lake , its ability to hold storm water is a constant political battle.

Especially since the guessed wrong and put most of the lakes business out of business for a year.

Not much reason to launch a boat if you have to drag it thru 300 ft of mud to get the outboard leg down.

The business at the lake want to stay in business.

On the east side they have the enviros that only want a certain amount if water to keep the brackish level constant.

On the west side id the power co that needs fresh water to not harm the equippment.

The sugar folks just want plenty of free water.

The Everglades folks dont want to see the grass go under 4 ft of water.

The dance is endless.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:15 AM   #35
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The dance is endless.
Of course.
Interesting the 1928 blow was said to have caused 1700 deaths but 75 years later was revised to over 2500. I wonder how they figured that out and why it took so long.

Must have had some fat gators there for a while.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:54 AM   #36
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With two feet of tide (our maximum), our maximum surge on a category 5 is 5 to 6'. This is Fort Lauderdale.

Now, I have a cousin who lives near Beaufort NC. Well, back inland and their surge from a Category 2 is more than we've ever had in Fort Lauderdale. His home is quite a bit elevated. The living area itself is over 30' above the water level.
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:43 AM   #37
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If I hadn't gone out and re-secured the boat next to mine it would have broken free and smashed into mine.
coast guard thinks the number 1 thing that kills boaters in a storm is trying to retie a boat.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:22 PM   #38
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With two feet of tide (our maximum), our maximum surge on a category 5 is 5 to 6'. This is Fort Lauderdale.

Now, I have a cousin who lives near Beaufort NC. Well, back inland and their surge from a Category 2 is more than we've ever had in Fort Lauderdale. His home is quite a bit elevated. The living area itself is over 30' above the water level.
A cat 5 surge is going to be WAY more than 5-6'. It does depend somewhat on geography, coastal shape, storm travel speed etc. But a 5 hauls a big ball of water under it.

I rode out hurricane Hugo in Mt Pleasant SC. I think it briefly hit cat 4. My house on IOP surge was about 15', a bit north to McClellanville it was I think 20'. If that same thing hit Ft L., water is coming up more than 6'.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:46 PM   #39
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A cat 5 surge is going to be WAY more than 5-6'. It does depend somewhat on geography, coastal shape, storm travel speed etc. But a 5 hauls a big ball of water under it.

I rode out hurricane Hugo in Mt Pleasant SC. I think it briefly hit cat 4. My house on IOP surge was about 15', a bit north to McClellanville it was I think 20'. If that same thing hit Ft L., water is coming up more than 6'.
I was referring to the ICW in Fort Lauderdale. Not other places. And referring to history as well as the charts on the site. Now there aren't a lot of Category 5's to compare to and 3 or 4 is more relevant. Andrew was a borderline 5 but didn't have a lot of surge due to it's speed. Tides in Mt. Pleasant vary 5 1/2 feet. Here our variance is 2' or less.

I'd just tell people to be knowledgeable of their own area and nearby areas, look at history, look at charts, look at flood ratings. Our 100 year flood is under 6'. We are at 0.2 % likelihood of a flood per FEMA. Two house from us on the canal is not even in a flood zone. Now along the beach is higher. But we're not on the beach nor are any marinas. Some marinas and areas like Harbor Island are in higher flood zones. I might say also that our insurance rates reflect the low likelihood of floods.
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Old 09-19-2015, 04:24 PM   #40
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A cat 5 surge is going to be WAY more than 5-6'. It does depend somewhat on geography, coastal shape, storm travel speed etc. But a 5 hauls a big ball of water under it.

I rode out hurricane Hugo in Mt Pleasant SC. I think it briefly hit cat 4. My house on IOP surge was about 15', a bit north to McClellanville it was I think 20'. If that same thing hit Ft L., water is coming up more than 6'.
Look at the maps I linked to, it really does vary due to all kinds of factors.
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