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Old 10-07-2016, 02:36 PM   #341
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This morning seeing the casualty numbers out of Haiti. Very sad.


The casualty numbers are the shocking headline -but there the other 1,000's of people now without food or shelter.


Mark
They now report 842 death people but I can imagine that temporary report...

Haiti are under big chock, this is major disaster.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:31 PM   #342
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They now report 842 death people but I can imagine that temporary report...

Haiti are under big chock, this is major disaster.
I expect their number to be in the thousands, then the spread of cholera post hurricane will magnify that many times.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:52 PM   #343
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I'm glad to report that it seems Moonstruck survived with no apparent damage. Now, my concern is for Larry and Lena on Hobo. I think they are getting pounded by wind and surge now.
Yeah, mee too. The thing that scares me about that situation is the barge next to Hobo. If that thing floats in 13 inches, it'll be swinging around while Hobo is still stuck on the stands.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:59 PM   #344
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I expect their number to be in the thousands, then the spread of cholera post hurricane will magnify that many times.
yes for sure this is really sad all world poverty on those people from long time, but we can't see any outcome

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Old 10-07-2016, 04:12 PM   #345
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yes for sure this is really sad all world poverty on those people from long time, but we can't see any outcome

Hugues
One thing hard for me to accept sometimes is that I can't fix the whole world and all it's ills, but that doesn't stop me from feeling deeply the tragedy of the situations of many. It is a constant reminder of how fortunate we all are and a reminder for everyone on this forum, that they are among the fortunate.
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Old 10-07-2016, 04:29 PM   #346
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Haiti is a very sad case. It has received billions of dollars in aid and it all seems to disappear. The United Nations should be charged with gross incompetence and the Haitian politicians should be in jail.
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Old 10-07-2016, 04:48 PM   #347
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One thing hard for me to accept sometimes is that I can't fix the whole world and all it's ills, but that doesn't stop me from feeling deeply the tragedy of the situations of many. It is a constant reminder of how fortunate we all are and a reminder for everyone on this forum, that they are among the fortunate.
100% with you
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:15 PM   #348
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Haiti is a very sad case. It has received billions of dollars in aid and it all seems to disappear. The United Nations should be charged with gross incompetence and the Haitian politicians should be in jail.
Last time in ST Barth they collect staff with Rotary and send 2 full containers and people in Haiti kidnapped container and ask 10 000 to give back, at the end 50% of container was stolen.:bang head:

After that they really don't want to make any more ...
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:41 PM   #349
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This is nothing new as far as Haiti is concerned. It has been going on for literally hundreds of years. Disaster after disaster with a great deal of corruption. It is not just the U.N. most every country has thrown $ at Haiti over the years and after disasters dating back to the 1500's. Perhaps a democracy is not for a country that has no education and only has a 12-15% voter turn-out. Of course if we quit helping out with their coup and quit putting our "friends" in office there it might change things, who knows.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:43 PM   #350
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Wifey B: You guys have to bring politics into everything, even at a time of extreme human suffering. Deal with your politics another time and show respect today for human life. The people dying aren't the ones at blame or even if some are, they're still dying.

And I'll continue to help if I can even if I know a lot won't go to them. The shipments mentioned earlier, well still some people may have eaten who otherwise wouldn't have.

People freaking died. Other people are going to get sick. Others will die. That's tragic regardless. If you have solutions go offer them but this isn't where they'll be resolved. I have my political thoughts too, but today isn't the time and this isn't the place. Today is for feeling and grieving. Today is for feeding and treating if you're able to help. Not a long term solution. A short term to people starving in the streets, to people being ravaged by disease, to families of those drowned. We live in a world largely protected and without diseases like cholera and with far less starving. We get concerned about Zika, a first world disease, small to this point compared to the 100000+ who die each year from cholera. What about the earthquake and the deaths from it in Haiti? Was the earthquake the fault of politicians or the rich or the government? H no. Was the hurricane their fault? H no. They did nothing to bring this on themselves unless you blame people for being poor and for living in the wrong part of the world.

I look by comparison that we're whining because we're without power. Well a lot of people are, not us. Or the headlines that 20 people are stuck in a bed and breakfast. Or a photo of some dude drove his Mercedes into deep water. Most of us don't know what suffering is. We say we're starving when we've been 10 hours since our last meal. Freezing when it's 60 degrees in our house. Burning up when it's 80 inside. Sick when we have a cold.

And the only thing different about us, any of us, is we were lucky enough to be born somewhere else.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:53 PM   #351
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seriously....People die because of politics...either because politics causes it or doesn't fix the problems.

or even sends people with guns to cause dying.

I sat off the coast of Haiti many a day at anchor on USCG cutters at snchor watching villages go about business....felt like I was in a time machine watching man evolve past the neanderthal Era. Not much has changed in 30 plus years.

I felt bad for them as like in many of our own ghettos, hope wasn't even on the table....outside forces were at work.

While that may sound callous...but I do feel for any destroyed town...whether Haiti, Afghanistan, Somalia, Flint Michigan, or one after a tornado leveled it.

It is not what you feel or say right now, it is when you can do something to help...whether today in Haiti or down the street when disaster hits a neighbor. That is the mark of a humanitarian.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:07 PM   #352
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Hurricane Matthew?

Jared Diamond's very interesting book Collapse has a section about Haiti compared to the Dominican Republic.

Haiti has struggled for a variety of reasons, but he claims French colonization and slavery was the biggest negative influence. Also their dry climate lead to poor agriculture and deforestation.

There were obviously more events that led to their current struggle, but I can't remember them all right now. The Haitians are not in the spot they are in because they are a godless voodo people like Pat Robertson claimed however. He actually said that.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:07 PM   #353
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Wifey B: You guys have to bring politics into everything, even at a time of extreme human suffering. Deal with your politics another time and show respect today for human life. The people dying aren't the ones at blame or even if some are, they're still dying.

And I'll continue to help if I can even if I know a lot won't go to them. The shipments mentioned earlier, well still some people may have eaten who otherwise wouldn't have.

People freaking died. Other people are going to get sick. Others will die. That's tragic regardless. If you have solutions go offer them but this isn't where they'll be resolved. I have my political thoughts too, but today isn't the time and this isn't the place. Today is for feeling and grieving. Today is for feeding and treating if you're able to help. Not a long term solution. A short term to people starving in the streets, to people being ravaged by disease, to families of those drowned. We live in a world largely protected and without diseases like cholera and with far less starving. We get concerned about Zika, a first world disease, small to this point compared to the 100000+ who die each year from cholera. What about the earthquake and the deaths from it in Haiti? Was the earthquake the fault of politicians or the rich or the government? H no. Was the hurricane their fault? H no. They did nothing to bring this on themselves unless you blame people for being poor and for living in the wrong part of the world.

I look by comparison that we're whining because we're without power. Well a lot of people are, not us. Or the headlines that 20 people are stuck in a bed and breakfast. Or a photo of some dude drove his Mercedes into deep water. Most of us don't know what suffering is. We say we're starving when we've been 10 hours since our last meal. Freezing when it's 60 degrees in our house. Burning up when it's 80 inside. Sick when we have a cold.

And the only thing different about us, any of us, is we were lucky enough to be born somewhere else.
Thats an over reaction. There has been no disrespect or lack of empathy shown for the Haitian people on this thread
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:37 PM   #354
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Wifey B: You guys have to bring politics into everything, even at a time of extreme human suffering. Deal with your politics another time and show respect today for human life. The people dying aren't the ones at blame or even if some are, they're still dying.

And I'll continue to help if I can even if I know a lot won't go to them. The shipments mentioned earlier, well still some people may have eaten who otherwise wouldn't have.

People freaking died. Other people are going to get sick. Others will die. That's tragic regardless. If you have solutions go offer them but this isn't where they'll be resolved. I have my political thoughts too, but today isn't the time and this isn't the place. Today is for feeling and grieving. Today is for feeding and treating if you're able to help. Not a long term solution. A short term to people starving in the streets, to people being ravaged by disease, to families of those drowned. We live in a world largely protected and without diseases like cholera and with far less starving. We get concerned about Zika, a first world disease, small to this point compared to the 100000+ who die each year from cholera. What about the earthquake and the deaths from it in Haiti? Was the earthquake the fault of politicians or the rich or the government? H no. Was the hurricane their fault? H no. They did nothing to bring this on themselves unless you blame people for being poor and for living in the wrong part of the world.

I look by comparison that we're whining because we're without power. Well a lot of people are, not us. Or the headlines that 20 people are stuck in a bed and breakfast. Or a photo of some dude drove his Mercedes into deep water. Most of us don't know what suffering is. We say we're starving when we've been 10 hours since our last meal. Freezing when it's 60 degrees in our house. Burning up when it's 80 inside. Sick when we have a cold.

And the only thing different about us, any of us, is we were lucky enough to be born somewhere else.
Politics has EVERYTHING to do with it.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:46 PM   #355
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Um, this thread has been keeping pretty clear of political discussion so far, and I hope that it continues that way. It is a useful thread. But you all know very well that we have to be careful. Just saying.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:02 PM   #356
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Then there are all the media outlets that show the photo of the Bed and Breakfast with water in front of it in St. Augustine. Let's see, water not yet even up to the porch, two stories, and 20 people are trapped in a Bed and Breakfast? Maybe I'm just missing something as to why that's the catastrophic news of the day.

Ok, just now the reporter in the dark in Savannah. He says, just behind me (and he turns and shows it) is the Savannah River. I know you can't see it right now but....ok, you're showing it to us, knowing we can't see it.

We are thinking of all those still with the hurricane approaching. Hope everyone remains safe as most have so far. Meanwhile we are on the plane back to Chicago.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:08 PM   #357
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I for one feel that we pulled through Matthew with minimal losses. Any farther west and we would be replacing the roof or worse. I'm glad it's over and reluctant to remove the shutters until Matthew has been put out of our misery.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:16 PM   #358
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Wifey B: You guys have to bring politics into everything, even at a time of extreme human suffering. Deal with your politics another time and show respect today for human life. The people dying aren't the ones at blame or even if some are, they're still dying.



And I'll continue to help if I can even if I know a lot won't go to them. The shipments mentioned earlier, well still some people may have eaten who otherwise wouldn't have.

I understand your point and agree that despite the difficulties that past aid has had in Haiti, it is still worth trying. A good friend of mine worked in Haiti doing development work for years. He loved the Haitian people but was extremely discouraged by the country.

It is depressing to me to see how two countries on the same island can be so radically different. The difference is political. As PS has said, politics often results in human tragedy. I have no idea what the answer may ultimately be for Haiti or if there is a solution. I share your sadness at the suffering but I think that unless someone tries to answer the political/social questions, we will see these problems continue.

Politics and poverty don't make hurricanes happen, but they do influence the level of human suffering that results.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:33 PM   #359
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Well said, Dave!
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:58 PM   #360
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Greetings,
Matthew. I see the latest forecast boy NOAA has Matthew doing a 180. How common is this maneuver? 1:20 or 1:100? Not being a FL native, I have little recollection of past hurricane paths.

As an aside I would recommend you read "Dead Aid" by Dambisa Moyo. VERY interesting view of foreign aid.
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