Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-18-2016, 11:23 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 403
Hull Blisters in Vinylester

I recently paid for a pre purchase survey on a 2008 U.S. built trawler that states in it's literature that it uses vinylester versus polyester resins in it's construction and coats that with an Interprotect 2000 barrier coat below the waterline.

I expected the bottom to be blister free since my last two boats...a 2000 42' Nordic Tug and a 2002 Albin 35 TESF both were constructed using vinylester resins and had no blisters.

When the 2008 was pulled I was shocked to see a multitude of quarter size blisters on both sides of the keel and on the sides of the bottom away from the keel. They were in a random pattern.

It was postulated by one of the brokers that they were paint blisters until the structural surveyor dug into a couple and confirmed they were under the gel coat.

Because of this issue and a couple more serious concerns, I rejected the boat. I am sad because it was my "bucket list" boat.

My question here is: Was I wrong to assume that a boat using vinlyester resins would be more resistant to blistering?
__________________
Advertisement

seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 04:40 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 403
I found this paper that discusses hull blistering in great detail.

http://www.zahnisers.com/wp-content/...r-Blisters.pdf

The paragraph below from page 9 seems to indicate that blistering in vinylester gelcote is extremely rare. The paper is a complex discussion but it begs the question of whether the boat I was planing to purchase did indeed use vinylester resin in its construction.

"In the case of a new boat, if the manufacturer has not applied a barrier or built the boat out of a non-blistering material such as vinylester resin, a barrier coat is highly recommended before the first immersion."
__________________

seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 05:36 PM   #3
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasalt007 View Post
I recently paid for a pre purchase survey on a 2008 U.S. built trawler that states in it's literature that it uses vinylester versus polyester resins in it's construction and coats that with an Interprotect 2000 barrier coat below the waterline.

I expected the bottom to be blister free since my last two boats...a 2000 42' Nordic Tug and a 2002 Albin 35 TESF both were constructed using vinylester resins and had no blisters.

When the 2008 was pulled I was shocked to see a multitude of quarter size blisters on both sides of the keel and on the sides of the bottom away from the keel. They were in a random pattern.

It was postulated by one of the brokers that they were paint blisters until the structural surveyor dug into a couple and confirmed they were under the gel coat.

Because of this issue and a couple more serious concerns, I rejected the boat. I am sad because it was my "bucket list" boat.

My question here is: Was I wrong to assume that a boat using vinlyester resins would be more resistant to blistering?

I certainly wouldn't reject a boat just because of quarter sizes blister.

They could stay that size for years to come.

You weren't "wrong to assume that a boat using vinlyester resins would be more resistant to blistering?"

Just wrong to assume they might all be free of blisters.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:12 PM   #4
Guru
 
roguewave's Avatar
 
City: Hill Country TX/S.Portland Maine
Country: Texas
Vessel Name: Southern Cross III
Vessel Model: 1988 Defever 41
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 571
A surveyor once told me he has never heard of a boat sinking because of blisters, get out and use the darn thing and enjoy it he told me.
__________________
..."some gave all, KIA"...
roguewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:14 PM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,877
Look closely to the design or build specs.

Vinylester is much more resistant to blistering...but many boats advertised as being built with vinylester are only built with the top layer or couple being vinylester, most of the layers are straight polyester.

Even vinylester and epoxy may develop blisters..especially with wet bilges where water is absorbed from the I side out.

Boats with epoxy or vinylester coverings, and wet insides may actually developed more and more severe blisters.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:16 PM   #6
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguewave View Post
A surveyor once told me he has never heard of a boat sinking because of blisters, get out and use the darn thing and enjoy it he told me.
He probably is correct...but some boats are severely compromised by them....what do you want out of your boat's hull?

100 percent strength, or less than 50 percent? Mine was severely compromised till I fixed it...the surveyor had no clue...as many don't as I learn more and more.....
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:36 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
I certainly wouldn't reject a boat just because of quarter sizes blisters.
That was only one of the reasons. The other ones were that the spec sheet said the boat was painted with Awlgirp when new. The surveyor noticed severe fading and blotchiness on the side we could not see when it was at the dock at the seller's home. When it was hauled and he said it was faded gelcoat. The other reason for rejection was that the engine had not been serviced at the appropriate hours of use. The seller could not remember last time the oil was changed let alone a service at the 1000 hour mark.

We are talking about a boat selling for a fraction beneath half a million bucks.
seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:45 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,083
So other than you are ticked off, what you have mentioned seems less than fatal. My suggestion would be to figure out costs to have a first class yard fix bottom, properly service the boat and double it. Then make your offer. BTW what brand of boat?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 07:18 PM   #9
Guru
 
roguewave's Avatar
 
City: Hill Country TX/S.Portland Maine
Country: Texas
Vessel Name: Southern Cross III
Vessel Model: 1988 Defever 41
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
He probably is correct...but some boats are severely compromised by them....what do you want out of your boat's hull?

100 percent strength, or less than 50 percent? Mine was severely compromised till I fixed it...the surveyor had no clue...as many don't as I learn more and more.....
I didn't buy the boat, just sharing his thoughts is all. I think the jest of his comment was...there will always be something, just get out there and enjoy the thing. Sometimes that is easier said than done
__________________
..."some gave all, KIA"...
roguewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 07:25 PM   #10
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,877
People who don't live with the purchase, guarantee the purchase or pay for the purchase love to say whatever they want.

Just like people who buy the boat and are so proud of it, they refuse to believe they might have bought a POS and didn't know it.

I almost knew how bad my boat was...but without destructive testing prior to purchase, there was no way to know exactly how bad the bottom was. I gambled and lost to a point...luckily I performed the $30,000 bottom job myself for about $3000.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 05:44 AM   #11
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,903
"My question here is: Was I wrong to assume that a boat using vinlyester resins would be more resistant to blistering?"

Poor workmanship can easily trump superior materials.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 09:58 AM   #12
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasalt007 View Post
That was only one of the reasons. The other ones were that the spec sheet said the boat was painted with Awlgirp when new. The surveyor noticed severe fading and blotchiness on the side we could not see when it was at the dock at the seller's home. When it was hauled and he said it was faded gelcoat.
Frankly, I wouldn't count on a surveyor being able to tell the difference between old gelcoat and old Awlgrip.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 12:29 PM   #13
Guru
 
Donna's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 558
Hmm, interesting topic. My survey was not completely clean. I didn't expect it to be. I have a few minor blisters and many other things that need attention immediately that I am working on.

Does anyone ever get a perfectly clean survey?

I adjusted the price accordingly and went back and forth with the seller until I was satisfied with the purchase price. Much to my liking, a lot of the issues the surveyor addressed have been easy fixes. Some, well not so much, but they will get done.

I did not let the boat go because of maintenance issues. I just adjusted the price according to cost of the items.

I am very pleased with my purchase as I work on her. Some may think she is a POS, but none the less I am proud of her and the work I put forth making her a beauty.

You will find your "bucket list" boat. Vessels come on the market all the time, but if you don't new build, expect something on the survey.
Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:35 PM   #14
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna View Post

You will find your "bucket list" boat. Vessels come on the market all the time, but if you don't new build, expect something on the survey.
New boats come with issues too.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:40 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna View Post
You will find your "bucket list" boat. Vessels come on the market all the time, but if you don't new build, expect something on the survey.
Thanks Donna. I understand. Over the last 40 years I have bought and sold seven boats over 35' All have been surveyed and I have dealt with the issues.

So, my first rodeo this is not. I held a 100 license for 35 years.

This is the first time that I think I have been purposefully deceived about how the boat was built by a broker affiliated with the manufacturer.
seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:49 PM   #16
Guru
 
Donna's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasalt007 View Post
Thanks Donna. I understand. Over the last 40 years I have bought and sold seven boats over 35' All have been surveyed and I have dealt with the issues.

So, my first rodeo this is not. I held a 100 license for 35 years.

This is the first time that I think I have been purposefully deceived about how the boat was built by a broker affiliated with the manufacturer.
Then that just stinks. Find another broker and interview them FIRST! I love my broker. Straight forward answers and disclosures. My brokers office is at my marina and have been extremely helpful even after purchase.

Good luck finding your dream boat!
Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 04:03 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna View Post
Then that just stinks. Find another broker and interview them FIRST! I love my broker. Straight forward answers and disclosures. My brokers office is at my marina and have been extremely helpful even after purchase.

Good luck finding your dream boat!
It's not my broker that is the problem. He is great. It is the listing broker.
seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #18
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,877
Sorry Donna...was not referring to you and your boat.....

It was directed to roguewave's story and so many boaters who believed a previous owner's story or a relatively clean survey that wasn't even close.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 05:12 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
kapnd's Avatar
 
City: hawaii
Country: usa
Vessel Name: #31
Vessel Model: ex-Navy MUB 50 fish/cruise
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post

Poor workmanship can easily trump superior materials.


So true, Fred, remember the warnings about Monday cars?
Most boats are built by hand, and as such are at the mercy of the competence of the labor force.
A few drops of water, sweat or anything oily could create the potential for a breach in the vinylester that could lead to blistering.
__________________
You can lead a horse to water,
But you can't make him ski...
kapnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 06:40 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
...a relatively clean survey that wasn't even close.

Aren't those called insurance surveys?

__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012