How much chain

[DocMolarboater]

Hello everyone.
We are purchasing a Selene 40 (51,000 pounds )and are planning to replace the anchor chain. Currently it has 300 feet of 5/16th. We are planning to replace that with 3/8th HT.
My question is how many feet of chain do I really need to buy?
We enjoy being out on anchor and did so many times with our previous boat. It was 44 Sundeck Motor yacht with only 125 feet of chain. We completed the loop with that boat and only once were not equipped to anchor.
We will be spending the bulk of our travels on the east coast NJ to Florida plus Bahamas.
Do we need to replace the existing 300 feet of 5/16th with 300 feet 3/8. ?

Thank you.
Probably many more questions ahead !
Gabi and John.

 

[Simi 60]

Chainwheel

 

[DocMolarboater]

I do not understand what you mean.

 

[fgarriso]

If you can stand the ballast of the extra chain (remember the chain is heavy up front on the bow) then I would go for 400' of 3/8. When anchoring then added chain will help when the wind comes up.

 

[ranger58sb]

We are planning to replace that with 3/8th HT.
My question is how many feet of chain do I really need to buy?

3/8" HT is often sold in lengths of 200' or 400'... so you might find better cost by picking one or the other of those.

We weigh about the same as you... and we usually anchor in 10-15' of water... so we went with 200' of 3/8"... backed with another 100' of 3/4" 8-plait rope. Latter partly intended to be long enough for emergency anchoring if we have to temporarily jettison the chain for some reason.

-Chris

 

[DavidM]

Think about the deepest anchorage you will ever anchor in. Add 5-6’ for the bow height and multiply by 7 and that is your minimum chain length.

David

 

[Simi 60]

I do not understand what you mean.

Changing chain size will usually mean changing chain wheel

 

[kchace]

You probably will need to change the chain “gypsy” on your windlass to accept the different sized chain. These are usually available and easily swapped and Must be matched to your chain size.

Ken

 

[sunchaser]

5/16 HT should be fine whether 300 or 400’. Look up the specs for it and you’ll see a WLL possibly more than matching your other rode WLL pieces. Sticking with the same size chain negates the need to mess around with a new gypsy.

What anchor?

Is the existing 300’ no good?

 

[TBill36]

I'll have to take a beating on this, but I'm not a fan of all chain rode and don't like carrying the added weight. Chain is obviously good for chafe resistance. Some of the studies I've read suggest that at about 45 mph wind your rode will become bar tight in which case a nylon rode will provide superior performance due to the cushioning from the stretch. There are many suggestions that having chain the length of the boat is sufficient and going up a size in the anchor increases holding power over additional chain and/or scope.

 

[sunchaser]

No beating Bill; on sail boats or small boats a bit of chain backed up by rope is pretty common.

The question though was about an all chain rode on a very sturdy boat that can easily handle the chain weight up front.

 

[O C Diver]

Hello everyone.
We are purchasing a Selene 40 (51,000 pounds )and are planning to replace the anchor chain. Currently it has 300 feet of 5/16th. We are planning to replace that with 3/8th HT.
My question is how many feet of chain do I really need to buy?
We enjoy being out on anchor and did so many times with our previous boat. It was 44 Sundeck Motor yacht with only 125 feet of chain. We completed the loop with that boat and only once were not equipped to anchor.
We will be spending the bulk of our travels on the east coast NJ to Florida plus Bahamas.
Do we need to replace the existing 300 feet of 5/16th with 300 feet 3/8. ?

Thank you.
Probably many more questions ahead !
Gabi and John.

For me, it would come down to whether and where you will anchor out in bad weather. My main rode has 350' of 3/8" G4 chain. I anchor extensively on the East coast and Great Lakes. Have never put out 200' in waters as deep as 35'. But, when storms approach, I seek more sheltered anchorages that block waves and have shallower (<20') water. I'm usually putting out around 10:1 scope in those situations. If you're not storm anchoring 200' should be fine with another 100' of rope attached.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

300 feet of 5/16 sounds decent for your boat and cruising grounds. Why are you considering changing?

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Some of the studies I've read suggest that at about 45 mph wind your rode will become bar tight in which case a nylon rode will provide superior performance due to the cushioning from the stretch.

But there are also snubbers and bridles to add cushioning and stretch to an all-chain rode, if necessary.

Just an observation, not a recommendation...

-Chris

 

[Flatswing]

Gabi & John:
No need to upgrade to 3/8” chain. I have 300’ of 3/8” on my DeFever but my sling weight is 67,000lbs. I just reversed it since the used end was rusting. I have never had to put out more than 125’ of chain anywhere from the Chesapeake thru the Bahamas & we mainly anchor. We installed a snubber line eye just above the water line to reduce scope in crowded anchorages as a courtesy to other boats since our bow roller is 9’ above the water. Others use twin snubbers through bow chocks. Neither reduces ‘sailing’ around the anchor but does smooth out the shock loads with major gusts.
Best investment is a LARGE, modern design anchor (don’t wish to open that debate as to brand).

 

[rslifkin]

At 40 feet, even with that weight, I agree, the 5/16 G43 chain should be just fine. You shouldn't need the extra strength of 3/8, plus the 3/8 is significantly heavier (1.5 lb/ft vs just about 1 lb/ft for 5/16). The 3/8 will also take up more space in the locker, so you may not physically fit as much as you'd want either.

 

[Mako]

@Flatswing, what’s the most convenient way to use that snubber eye at the waterline? Seems like a pain in the butt to access.

 

[rwidman]

300 feet of 5/16 sounds decent for your boat and cruising grounds. Why are you considering changing?

Peter

I would ask the same question.

You will have to replace the windlass chain wheel and you will be adding a lot of weight to the boat.

If you chain is rusty or otherwise failed, the simplest thing to do is to replace it with the same size and type of chain.

 

[rwidman]

I'll have to take a beating on this, but I'm not a fan of all chain rode and don't like carrying the added weight. Chain is obviously good for chafe resistance. Some of the studies I've read suggest that at about 45 mph wind your rode will become bar tight in which case a nylon rode will provide superior performance due to the cushioning from the stretch. There are many suggestions that having chain the length of the boat is sufficient and going up a size in the anchor increases holding power over additional chain and/or scope.

I am with you on that. I have 30' of 5/16" G4 chain and the rest 9/16' rope and this has served me well for many years and hundreds of anchorings.

And I can just drop the anchor, set it and cleat the rope. I don't have to fool around with any sort of snubber.

 

[rslifkin]

@Flatswing, what’s the most convenient way to use that snubber eye at the waterline? Seems like a pain in the butt to access.

Most people I see using a setup like that rig a line to it permanently and lead it up to deck level, that way you only need to access the eye if the snubber needs replacement.

 

[Flatswing]

@Flatswing, what’s the most convenient way to use that snubber eye at the waterline? Seems like a pain in the butt to access.

Good observation. I don’t want this thread to drift too much but here goes:
I make my own 20-25’ snubber out of 5/8” 3 strand nylon with nylon eyes. I leave one end attached to the water level bow eye with a soft shackle so no need for a protective plate around the eye. Underway, the snubber free end is lead back through my bow roller and cleated on deck.
To anchor, I unfasten the deck end & hold it loosely while lowering the anchor, I let out required chain minus 20’ then attach the free end of the snubber to the chain with another soft shackle (I make my own). 5/16” Dyneema soft shackles are stronger than the 3/8”chain, but doubled will pass through each link easily. Then I pay out more chain until the snubber is loaded and I feel the bounce & see it on GPS breadcrumb trail.

There are some recurring issues in my experience.
1) upon retrieval, the snubber will often spiral wrap 1-5 times around the chain, not a big deal to unwrap
2) Important to use more rather less scope in uncertain conditions, ‘cus if weather blows up, you can’t let out more chain without shortening the scope briefly in order to unfasten the snubber. This is the PITA part, common to all snubbers.
3) Many kind passing boaters will call me on VHF to let me know that I have a bow line in the water (the bow wave obscures the lower attachment while underway)
4) There is nome minor abrasion of the snubber against the chain & bow roller as it is paid out or retrieved, so I replace it and the soft shackles every 2-3 years, just in case

 

[TBill36]

One other benefit of using rope and chain up to a certain size is that you can retrieve it by hand if your windlass craps out. Most windlasses have a hand crank option, but it's usually not very handy.

 

[High Wire]

The only place we needed more than 125’ of chain between Tarpon Springs FL and the Erie Canal in NY was trying to anchor in the Hudson River on the channel slope. 200’ would work fine. I added 50’ of yellow floating line in case I needed to cut free. That way the end will float without a float attached for eventual recovery.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Sweetwater is very sensitive to bow weight, so we went around the world with only 200 feet of chain. The only time that was a problem was in Indonesia, where all of the land is volcanic (conical) so the best anchoring technique was to let out the anchor to the end and drive very slowly toward shore until either you were too close or you were anchored.


I would stick with 5/16 to save having to change the windlass, but you might go to high test.


As for the negative comment about all chain rodes, it is true that in high wind an all chain rode will become bar tight, but how many times will you be in those conditions? In 50 years and 50,000 miles of cruising, we have been anchored in a gale only twice. When that happens, you can dig out the nylon.



Chain is absolutely essential when anchoring in coral and is a good idea with rocky bottoms where nylon will chafe. Boats that are prone to tack around the anchor will tack less if they have to drag the chain.


Jim
Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022 18,000 miles including trans-Atlantic The Fleet Tender Fintry
Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- 23
?? Going back to sailing after Morning Light is sold.

 

[jbinbi]

Don't have a powerboat so my experience is all on sailboats. I would only leave chain on the windlass by itself if I am anchoring for lunch / short period in calm waters. I have seen windlasses ripped out in bouncing seas.

Overnight or in seas, I always use a bridle or line attached to the chain and back. 3 strand stretchy, use a rolling or prusik hitch on the chain once anchored, then let out another 10-20' of chain until the line is taking the strain, not the chain.

Maybe you don't need to do this on trawlers, the windlass can take all the strain of the boat?

 

[rslifkin]

Don't have a powerboat so my experience is all on sailboats. I would only leave chain on the windlass by itself if I am anchoring for lunch / short period in calm waters. I have seen windlasses ripped out in bouncing seas.

Overnight or in seas, I always use a bridle or line attached to the chain and back. 3 strand stretchy, use a rolling or prusik hitch on the chain once anchored, then let out another 10-20' of chain until the line is taking the strain, not the chain.

Maybe you don't need to do this on trawlers, the windlass can take all the strain of the boat?

The same basic rules apply, there's nothing inherently different about anchoring a sailboat or powerboat.

 

[DocMolarboater]

Anchor is 33Kg Rocna
Chain is 5/16’ but not sure weather HT or Proof or what. I obviously need to look closer to ID.

 

[DocMolarboater]

5/16 HT should be fine whether 300 or 400’. Look up the specs for it and you’ll see a WLL possibly more than matching your other rode WLL pieces. Sticking with the same size chain negates the need to mess around with a new gypsy.

What anchor?

Is the existing 300’ no good?

Anchor is a 33 Kg Rocna
Existing chain is of questionable quality. Not sure if it’s HT. Need to look closer.

Rocna specifies right at 5/16’ to 3/8” for our weight and length.

Looks like 3/8’ will work in gypsie but am confirming with 1 ft length. I don’t want to upsize gypsie but will if necessary.

I do use a 3/4” 3 strand length as a bridle.

 

[SteveK]

If the chain 5/16 you have now is in good confition why are you wanting to change it?

 

[Simi 60]

Existing chain is of questionable quality. .

Oh lordy
Chain is cheap
And for us, chain, anchor and windlass is our #1 bit of safety gear/insurance
It's not the place for questionable anything.