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Old 09-14-2012, 06:13 AM   #21
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Dont be fooled by the advertising term "trawler" .

While they may look fine most "trawlers" are not built for a deep sea trip.

Too little fuel , and too lightweight construction.

Some boats cost 300% more than others , this is usually to obtain the required design & construction for blue water operation.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:31 AM   #22
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I took the roughest passage I've ever taken in St. Andrews Sound in GA in December of last year. It was not fun. We got the Shit Beat out of us. A few 36 foot sailboats came through with only getting really wet and bumping around some.

I'm in a 36 foot TT (Monk 36) and it is OK on good days, but I now draw the line at 15 knots. If more than that I don't go outside. Nobody onboard liked any moment of that passage.

IMHO my boat is made for inland travel. I've done the 5NM journey outside to Cape Lookout, but I had a close eye on the wind and weather and also tide. A sailboat would not have worried at all, and would have actually hoped for more wind!
We crossed St. Andrews Sound this past May. Both ways, north to south and south to north. The first time was no big deal, just a long trip in open water. The second, was pretty rough. This sound seems to have a reputation as a rough area on the ICW.

I'm not going to let it stop me from cruising the ICW though.
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:47 AM   #23
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I've done the 5NM journey outside to Cape Lookout, but I had a close eye on the wind and weather and also tide. A sailboat would not have worried at all, and would have actually hoped for more wind!
This trip makes us (but mostly Bess) a little anxious. It's not so much the trip so much as running the inlet or getting stuck out there.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:49 AM   #24
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We crossed St. Andrews Sound this past May. Both ways, north to south and south to north. The first time was no big deal, just a long trip in open water. The second, was pretty rough. This sound seems to have a reputation as a rough area on the ICW.

I'm not going to let it stop me from cruising the ICW though.
Sure man -- when we did it it was 25-30 knot winds. When we went back North it was Fuzzy Bunny. I'm just saying that our trawler or cruiser or whatever isn't designed for that. Do it again in 25 knot winds, and report back.

I'll go outside in nice weather, but if the wind approaches 20 knots I go inside.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:55 AM   #25
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This trip makes us (but mostly Bess) a little anxious. It's not so much the trip so much as running the inlet or getting stuck out there.
Just don't go out (or in) Beaufort inlet on a falling tide when the wind is from the SW. It becomes a scary place right at the entrance, and the locals say not to do it. I trust them.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:55 AM   #26
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Just don't go out (or in) Beaufort inlet on a falling tide when the wind is from the SW. It becomes a scary place right at the entrance, and the locals say not to do it. I trust them.
Good advice for any inlet the current rips through...sounds like many East Coast inlets that stack up steeply in those conditions.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:09 AM   #27
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Just don't go out (or in) Beaufort inlet on a falling tide when the wind is from the SW. It becomes a scary place right at the entrance, and the locals say not to do it. I trust them.
Flood is fine, Ebb is evil!
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:30 AM   #28
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you can go around the back side of st andrews sound,look on your chart and you will see there is a way around the back
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:46 AM   #29
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The "stability" advantage a sail boat has over a MV is normally (forget the hurricane winds some get trapped in) applicable when the sails are up. In the PNW, sailing is normally lousy particulary when doing the longer passages so consequently sails are usually absent. I've know many a sailor who gets cold wet and envious of us MV owners when doing the Alaska trip on their motors only.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:15 AM   #30
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John, what you were told is indeed the truth, there are no stupid questions, everyone has to start somewhere.

The replies so far are correct, especially the broad definition of "trawler". Getting the right boat requires you define as best you possibly can, how you will use it, than find the optimum boat for your purposes. My wife and I spent five years in our quest and recently took delivery of a new Ocean Alexander 54 Trawler.

If you want to learn more about the thought process behind our purchase and the outfitting of the boat, it is being featured in the October issue of Passagemaker magazine.

We also are based on the East Coast and have similar plans as you.

There are many power driven, extended range, voyaging vessels (trawlers) capable of confidently handling the conditions you describe.

Enjoy the search and keep asking questions!
Just Bod,How is your 54 ocean Alexander working out and are you happy with it. What modal did is it. I am looking at 48 classic sedan to purchase and your opinion will be appreciated. Also anyone with experience with ocean Alexander. Thinks
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:07 PM   #31
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Just Bod,How is your 54 ocean Alexander working out and are you happy with it. What modal did is it. I am looking at 48 classic sedan to purchase and your opinion will be appreciated. Also anyone with experience with ocean Alexander. Thinks
We have an early 90's 440 sundeck/cockpit, semi-displacement hull located on Lake Michigan. Overall great build quality and stout hulls. Earlier OA bottoms often have a minor blister issue....nothing structural..uncommmon on Great Lakes boats as they get hauled every winter.. Typical semi-displacement handling characteristics....snappy roll in beam seas...prefers pounding head on into larger waves, or taking them slightly off the bow. Short coupled 6-7's on bow with no issues...on the beam sux. Relatively large rudders for good directional control. Ed Monk OA hulls run dry in rough stuff and more fuel efficient than most. Like most OA owners, we're huge fans of the marque. The factory still answers questions about their older products. Yard in Seattle has the flick on tech questions.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #32
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We are enjoying the boat a great deal. It is the 54 Trawler model that O/A developed three years ago along with a 60' version of the same boat. We are very happy with O/A's design features and quality.

Unfortunately Johnny Chueh has decided to exit the trawler market again after only building a few of these boats. I've had many conversations with him about it and he says he has just been away from the trawler market for so long that it would cost too much to get back into it at the volume he would need to make it profitable. He can develop, market and sell a motoryacht for considerably less than he can a trawler.

We feel fortunate to have gotten one of these. Since we took delivery of it we have continued to look at what else is in the market and for our purposes it is the best boat we could have chosen.

As I mentioned in our previous post, you can read all about our purchase in the October issue of Passagemaker magazine, where they ran an article I wrote about building our boat.

Good luck with your search and purchase.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:14 PM   #33
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All of which is merely background information to ask if I am going to need to have flat calm Gulf waters to come across, or if a trawler can take reasonably rough water without all that much discomfort?
John
To answer your original question, most cruisers of the type most of us have will take rough water better than the people on board them.

If you have a cruiser with a semi-planing hull it will have a shorter, faster roll with a sometimes very abrupt snap-back when it starts rolling back the other way. As opposed to a displacement hull (there is no such thing as a "full displacement" hull-- displacement is like dead; you either are or you aren't) which has a longer but slower roll with (usually) a more gentle transition to the roll back.

Some people find the snap-back roll of a semi-planing hull uncomfortable, some people find the slower, longer roll of a displacement hull sickening. So you have to pick your poison using your own preferences.

But as long as your boat is designed and loaded properly it will most likely be able to take whatever you can.

The other issue with most of the cruisers most of us have is the transom. Boats like our GB have wide butts. This is to maximize the volume of usable space inside the boat for things like queen berths and such.

In a following or quartering following sea, if you have a slow boat like ours the waves will be overtaking the boat, and when they encounter that big, flat transom they will shove the back of the boat around with all the power that waves pack with them. Keeping the boat from being pushed around broadside to the waves, or worse, being slewed around violently into a capsize (broach) can require some lively and continuous exertion with the wheel and sometimes the throttle(s).

Autopilots can help but the situation can reach a point where an autopilot can't keep up. Also, an autopilot can't anticipate, it can only react. The last fourteen years have taught us by virtue having to cross five to seven miles of an often-rough bay at the beginning and end of every run that handling a boat like ours in rougher water with the waves behind us requires as much if not more judgement, anticipation, and before-the-fact action with the wheel that reaction with the wheel when each wave hits us. And an autopilot can't do this.

So the bottom line is that I think cruisers like ours can handle a hell of a lot in terms of rough water. The more relevant question is what can you handle? What kind of a ride are you most comfortable with, and how good are you-- or do you think you can become-- at steering a wide-ass boat in conditions that are trying to take control away from you?
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:09 PM   #34
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Flood is fine, Ebb is evil!
out west with the the offshore currents and wind from the south west or west the flood can kill you. Killed two commercial fishermen at Tillamook oregon bar in october
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:43 AM   #35
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Actually Larry is correct. With a west to northwest swell from the Pacific it's always best to enter with the flood. The flood has a tendency to "lay the swell down". During an ebb the swell stands up and the period shortens and the conditions become dangerous most of the time.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:43 AM   #36
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out west with the the offshore currents and wind from the south west or west the flood can kill you. Killed two commercial fishermen at Tillamook oregon bar in october
I'm not sure it was a flood tide, bad luck or judgement (?) or maybe there was another incident in October.

Coast Guard Rescues 2 After Vessel Capsizes Crossing Tillamook Bar - Salem-News.Com
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:00 AM   #37
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To answer your original question, most cruisers of the type most of us have will take rough water better than the people on board them.

If you have a cruiser with a semi-planing hull it will have a shorter, faster roll with a sometimes very abrupt snap-back when it starts rolling back the other way. As opposed to a displacement hull (there is no such thing as a "full displacement" hull-- displacement is like dead; you either are or you aren't) which has a longer but slower roll with (usually) a more gentle transition to the roll back.

Some people find the snap-back roll of a semi-planing hull uncomfortable, some people find the slower, longer roll of a displacement hull sickening. So you have to pick your poison using your own preferences.

But as long as your boat is designed and loaded properly it will most likely be able to take whatever you can.

The other issue with most of the cruisers most of us have is the transom. Boats like our GB have wide butts. This is to maximize the volume of usable space inside the boat for things like queen berths and such.

In a following or quartering following sea, if you have a slow boat like ours the waves will be overtaking the boat, and when they encounter that big, flat transom they will shove the back of the boat around with all the power that waves pack with them. Keeping the boat from being pushed around broadside to the waves, or worse, being slewed around violently into a capsize (broach) can require some lively and continuous exertion with the wheel and sometimes the throttle(s).

Autopilots can help but the situation can reach a point where an autopilot can't keep up. Also, an autopilot can't anticipate, it can only react. The last fourteen years have taught us by virtue having to cross five to seven miles of an often-rough bay at the beginning and end of every run that handling a boat like ours in rougher water with the waves behind us requires as much if not more judgement, anticipation, and before-the-fact action with the wheel that reaction with the wheel when each wave hits us. And an autopilot can't do this.

So the bottom line is that I think cruisers like ours can handle a hell of a lot in terms of rough water. The more relevant question is what can you handle? What kind of a ride are you most comfortable with, and how good are you-- or do you think you can become-- at steering a wide-ass boat in conditions that are trying to take control away from you?
Nice little write up mate!

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Old 12-26-2012, 07:03 AM   #38
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Every experience boater knows to watch inlets where tide opposes current. Some are a breeze no matter whsat...some can be deadly.

Also the bars and standing waves can break unexpectedly with current surges.

ec...etc...etc

If you are not experienced or can read water and weather (and do your homework)...most dangerous inlets have some sort of traffic/rescue services that can be contacted for info.

My experience with west coast bars is the really bad ones had USCG spotters at the mouth giving advisories...do they still do that?
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:24 AM   #39
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...My experience with west coast bars is the really bad ones had USCG spotters at the mouth giving advisories...do they still do that?
The CG pretty much controls/gives advisories for the river/bar crossings on the WA, OR and northern CA coast from our experience. In 2008 we sat in Coos Bay, OR for 2 weeks waiting on weather. At one point the CG closed the bar to all recreational traffic. Later it was closed to recreational vessels less than 40'. The entrance is manned 24/7's, at least during the summer. Unless conditions were flat calm, we called the CG at every entrance for advise.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:39 PM   #40
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I'm not sure it was a flood tide, bad luck or judgement (?) or maybe there was another incident in October.

Coast Guard Rescues 2 After Vessel Capsizes Crossing Tillamook Bar - Salem-News.Com
Ah, my mistake. I was crossing the bar at Coos Bay when i heard of the missing fishermen. Stuck in my mind as being lost at that time but maybe they had not yet been recovered when i heard the news on vhf. There have been many incidents there since the north jetty was repaired which messed the bar up.
Not sure if flood but there was lots of water coming down the rivers cause of all the rain at that time. I think it depends upon the angle of the winds in relation to the flood that would make the difference?? Is that correct?
Next time out i will check at the coast gaurd station to see what they have to say and will post what i find.
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