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Old 01-03-2012, 01:21 PM   #21
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How do you have your dock lines setup?

Mark,

I like your yellow a lot but I'm not a fan of dark colored yachts. On one of my forums ther'es a black Willard and I think it looks awful but if it was real glossy like a presidential limo and covered w chrome plated bronze like the old Navy Admiral's barges of the 50s and 60s I'd never change a thing if I could keep up the gloss. I intend to paint my blue 19' FG OB yellow ...the same shade as your pilot house roof. I'd like to see two or 3 1" stripes along your upper topsides just below the gunn'l in the same yellow as your cabin top. And my large square sterned canoe is already the good yelllow.

Eric

PS * * Actually the canoe is a little lighter shade that your cabin top. I like your cabin yellow better.*


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 02:23:37 PM
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:03 PM   #22
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Charles, would you mind if I reprint your article in my marina newsletter, with credit of course?
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:47 PM   #23
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How do you have your dock lines setup?

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:psneeld wrote:

*

Every boat is different and every dock is different.* As a pro instructor...I never tell someone how to tie up their boat unless I see the boat and dock.

Some people tie up as if every day was a hurricane and some use twine to tie up.* Neither is right...neither is wrong.* There's always conditions, situations beyond each individuals wants, wishes, controls, etc...etc..

How I tie up at a home dock may be different than when I'm a transient and is certainly different if I expect wids or waves that grossly exceed the norm.

Some will tell you you need heavier lines which is crap except for chafe....1/4 inch lines will hold most boats in most slips if in good shape and no chance of chafe...but is hard on your hands and there's often a chance of chafe...so most go bigger but many go overkill.* If you only get to the boat every weekend or worse...then big or multiple lines is a good idea...if you liveaboard...less can be best.

Bottom line...no correct answer...if you want my opinion...send me some pics of the boat and dock and I'll give some generic answers...

Just to put it in perspective...where I tie up the spring tidal currents run about 3 knots, the spring tide range is 6 ft and when the northeast winds blow over 40*the slips get 3-4 foot chop in them when the tide runs against the wind.*


-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 2nd of January 2012 07:47:12 PM
*

Scott - you have the pro credentials, but were you really serious saying 1/4" line will hold most boats? Is that what you use for yours. Not trying to be a wise guy, but I have never seen a boat over 20 feet use 1/4" lines.

*Look at the tensile strength of most lines...wayyyyy more than the boat normally exerts.* Almost every failure I've ever seen is from improperly tied hitches/knots or chafe...even cleat failure...not the line snapping.

No I wouldn't use 1/4 inch line as it's not easy to handle...but my point it's not about line size as much as chafe...eliminate chafe (which is difficult to prevent*and dangerous ifyou're not aboard all the time) and you could downsize your lines in most cases...

Actually smaller diameter lines ...especially on shorter docklines give a little...most people have such large lines they might as well just use chain/cable to tie up with.

I go with smaller diameter lines with sacrificial loops where they could possibly chafe.* Much cheaper than heavier lines and then havng to replace*the whole*35 footer if you get chafe in it not very near the end.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 08:52:48 PM
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:27 AM   #24
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

I don't think there's any way to answer the original questin, but I will say this:

At my home slip, I leave my lines at the dock and they are cut to length and secured to the cleats with wire ties so nobody can mess with them. I have additional lines for transient slips and for docking back at my home slip.

When I return to my slip, all the lines are the correct length and in the correct place.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:05 AM   #25
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Following Charles' advice I have been using docklines with 4' eyes for years now. They make it much easier to toss a loop over a piling or cleat. You can usually get it back off of the piling or cleat with a few quick flips on departure.
It is sometimes takes a while to get "helpful" dockhands to grasp the idea of simply droping the loop in place, for some reason they usually want to tie the line off on the cleat. Force of habit I guess .
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:26 AM   #26
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Perhaps I hav'nt read all of this thread but why would you want eyes longer than long enough to get the line around the ends of a large cleat?

Eric
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:51 AM   #27
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

"why would you want eyes longer than long enough to get the line around the ends of a large cleat?"

You can put it over a piling, or two, it easier to toss over a piling or cleat. You can flick or snap it up and off a piling.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:53 AM   #28
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

I'm liking the idea of the 4' eyes, I can visualize how they'd work. I'll have to whip up a few this winter for sea trials next spring.

Now, if I could get people to stop hauling with all their might on any line put into their hands ..... it just seems to be human instinct to pull on a rope.

*
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:57 AM   #29
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Quote:
charles wrote:
Eric,
NOT in the pacific nw but most of the rest of the country we tie to pilings. With a 4 ft eye the line is balanced and one is able to throw the eye a long way, my wife can ring a piling more than 10-15 ft away on the first try, Note I try to get a lot closer and usually do.
Another thing, with the large eye one can work the eye up and off of the piling from 20 ft or more out even a long piling 10 ft higher than the top of my head. Cannot do that with a small eye, just cannot.

Also with the large eye can place the eye on ONE ear of the cleat then forward around the base of the cleat and then back toward the boat, to release just flip it and bingo the line is free of the cleat. Difficult do that with a small eye.

I seldom place the eye over BOTH EARs of the cleat unless the cleat is immediately opposite the hawse.

NOTE using a bowlin knot UNBALANCES the line and makes throwing to a piling highly inaccurate. This is my experience.

I have demonstrated the various techniques described in many seminars on docks. All that I can say is that it works.

*I don't disagree your method is very good...many boaters just make a larger eye by pulling some line through the eye to make a larger loop...but it is a slipping loop and cannot flip of cleats/pilings.* Both methods have advantages/disadvantages.* I like large eyes...I think they have the greatest flexibility with the exception of no loop at all...making a loop*with a bowline in some lines makes the loop stay open better than a spliced eye and even a better lasso for pilings.* But a good big spliced eye is good also.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:58 AM   #30
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Quote:
BaltimoreLurker wrote:
I'm liking the idea of the 4' eyes, I can visualize how they'd work. I'll have to whip up a few this winter for sea trials next spring.

Now, if I could get people to stop hauling with all their might on any line put into their hands ..... it just seems to be human instinct to pull on a rope.

*
*You have better boaters where you are...lots around here I swear try to PUSH the rope...
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #31
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
....*why would you want eyes longer than long enough to get the line around the ends of a large cleat?
*Eric--- In places like the east coast (south of places like Maine and the Canadian maritimes) their tidal ranges are minimal.* So a lot of docks aren't floating, they're fixed.* And even if they are floating, the don't go up and down*very far so there is no need to use the towering pilings that are used in more northern waters where tidal ranges can exceed 20 feet.* So a piling is a more viable thing to tie up to back there than it is out here and the tops of the pilings aren't way up in the air like they are here.* Hence the large loops which can be placed or thown over the top of a piling as Charles describes.* Trying to get the bitter end of a line around a piling from a boat would be a real pain.

So the big loop makes all kinds of*sense back there but would be useless here with our very tall pilings, floating docks and*almost universal use*of bullrails.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:08 PM   #32
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Quote:
Willy wrote:
*Another reason I carry an axe on board.
In Canada isn't an ax required on board? and a bucket of sand.

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Old 01-04-2012, 05:36 PM   #33
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Well.......sometimes I'm glad when I ask a question. I understand much more about the east coast now. Here is a picture of the public floats in Prince Rupert BC (where we will be rather soon) and It would be a challenge indeed to throw a loop on like up and over a piling at low water.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:08 PM   #34
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How do you have your dock lines setup?

Great shot, Eric, and a very good illustration of tidal ranges from here on up north. And one can perhaps imagine with the volume of water illustrated by the exposed, barnacled*length of Eric's pilings flowing in and out four times a day, what the currents can be like, particularly in the more restricted channels and passes.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 4th of January 2012 07:09:33 PM
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:31 PM   #35
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Eric's photo also demonstrates the value of the color yellow.*
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #36
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

1 We would never tie to a piling. To much tidal range, and the likelihood of getting your line off without major hassles is low, you could easily get hung up, your line would be covered in creosote in no time, and your whole boat would be filthy instantly, with no hope of ever being clean again.

2 If I ever have to tie to a log boom, the scotchman is the only fender I would use. I would weight it if possible, but generally they stay put. Log dogs are useful for more than threatening your friends with wooden boats.

3 Never, never, did I say Never? give control to some idiot on the dock. A firm rule on our boat, well understood by the first mate, is that this vessel weighs 44,000 lbs. A person trying to move it or slow it, using only the weight of his own body and my line is going to fail, with consequences to himself or to my gelcoat. Neither is permitted to occur, as no line gets passed ashore until the boat is in position. If the skipper isn't capable of getting the boat into the right position, he/she shouldn't be at the helm.

4 I didn't know I was mixed up. Although I confess I looked at the other KO's posts for a while to see if his last name would ever get spelled correctly.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:44 PM   #37
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
Well.......sometimes I'm glad when I ask a question. I understand much more about the east coast now. Here is a picture of the public floats in Prince Rupert BC (where we will be rather soon) and It would be a challenge indeed to throw a loop on like up and over a piling at low water.
*If you cruise from Main to Florida every year, you can encounter 20 foot tides in Maine to almost nothing behind Cape Hatteras to back to 8 feet in Savannah, Ga back to near nothing in much of the Florida intracoastal.

So flexibility is important here...that's why I almost could care less about any eyes in my lines.* I happy that I* feel good about being able to pull into most places and with a little*planning ahead, know that one line will hold me in place till I figure out what I really want to do and get the other lines*on (as long as conditions are reasonable).
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:55 PM   #38
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Great photo, Eric.

A wise sailor should consider/evaluate other sailor's experiences and recommendations, but*he need to*place great weight on*his*own experiences.* I say: do what works for you.

I'm put off by persons who say "this is the way I do things, so you should do the same."* Well I'm sure they're trying to help, they may be unaware of their own ignorance.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:55 PM   #39
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

psneeld wrote:

"So flexibility is important to me here" *Never done it before, so and so says it do'nt work, not a good yacht practice *ect ect. One must experiment or ones horizons will never expand. One will never learn and always be behind and ignorant. But one frequently gains knowledge w burnt fingers and falls now and then and there are bold ones that are labeled accident prone but the fact that they are usually smarter than the ones talking about how smart they are w their perfect record obtained by the one's that experiment in and out of trouble. I started boating when I built my first boat at 12 and started anchoring when I was 20 someth'in and never set my anchor. Set the anchor....that's stupid. If the wind or current comes along it will obviously set itself. I just put the anchor on the bottom and then some slack. Never had a problem but I did'nt anchor that often. But in my 70s I do give some credit to the assumed correct way of doing things but I'm ALWAYS suspect of whatever ways are presented to me and frequently test the established knowledge at hand. The stuff you really know is the stuff that you've proven to yourself.

Yes Marin, *You've seen that pic before but it does show our tidal range and I'm not even sure if it was low tide. Could'a dropped another foot or so. There are many places w considerable current up here but tidal current in your neck of the woods my be just as influential as up here. In fact the San Juan Islands may have more troublesome currents than SEA. Currents in the vicinity of Friday Harbor can make a trawlerman wish he had a planing hull from time to time.

Eric
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:31 PM   #40
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RE: How do you have your dock lines setup?

Charles,*I don't count on anyone to take the lines.**I approach the dock, step off, and*tie the lines to the dock's*cleats or rings.* (Floating docks*but no bull rails here.)
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