How big is too big for a first boat?

[Lou_tribal]

Greetings,
Mr. 44. The more specific information dribbles in, the more I'm tempted to talk you out of a trawler style vessel.
-Sheltered waters fairly close by.
-Short overnight trips.
-Entertaining on board with space for friends and family.

You did NOT mention but being in a similar situation ie: living on waterfront property, multiple afternoon/evening cruises. As mentioned, a LOT easier to throw off the lines and go in a 32' boat than a 45'er.

That being briefly said, you may make better use of a boat like a Searay, Bayliner or similar. Yes, gas powered.

Gas
Diesel smells so much better than gas and makes you so much higher higher and is a better skin moisturizer ! l:lol:

 

[SoWhat]

Now the whole equation just changed. The boat you believe is 45', how much does it go beyond the finger? You cannot trust the model representation to size. There's as much as 10' difference in two boats called by the same type model number.

Agree, this is relevant information. Putting a long boat in a short slip is not for beginners. My recommendation? Pad the whole length and end of the slip with large fenders. You might have time to stop backward momentum with your stern line or a spring line but the bow is going to go it's own way if theres any wind. Slip is simply too short. Boat will end up crossways and you will not find it easy to drag it around manually via dock lines.

 

[Luke-44]

Hmm. The other 43 is always bow in if that matters. He just starts her up and pulls straight back.

 

[eyschulman]

To the OP the answer to your question is different for different people. Some individuals can jump from the farm to a 60 footer and do well fast others will have trouble with small boats. There are a lot of choices to make sometimes chartering a few different boats will help. If you charter you may have to qualify also a good stepping stone.

 

[BandB]

Hmm. The other 43 is always bow in if that matters. He just starts her up and pulls straight back.

That matters as you can pull a little further forward but not too far as people have to walk on the dock and really get bothered if your bow pulpit is in their path. Now, it also means you have a boarding problem on many boats that size as they're most easily boarded from the swim platform, which is out over the water in your case.

 

[Luke-44]

My girl does have side boarding too so fortunately that doesn't seem it would be a problem. i did see a pic I took last summer of a neighbors boat a few slips down with the pulpit over hanging onto the dock airspace but it's not much bc the front angle of the bow at the waterline still requires you keep back 2 feet or so.


I think in summary I have to put the purchase process on hold until I check this docking situation a bit further. If the answer is a dock extension on my dime I guess it's a good intro to the B-O-A-T aspect of this hobby I've read so much about but have yet to experience first hand.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

Buy the bigger boat. Join a yacht club. You will make lots of new friends who will be happy to teach you what you need to know. You'll have friends to buddy-boat with and friends to grab your lines and pull you into the dock. I learned more from my yacht club friends than I did in the Coast Guard Auxiliary classes I took.

 

[Donsan]

Mr RTF is giving you some good advice. We had a 40' slip in a protected harbor at our condo in NW Michigan. Most of the time, the water was glassy, however, every year or so, a big windstorm would come through and cause damage to the boats such as pulpits hitting the cement bulkhead. One year a trawler came loose in a storm and damaged other boats and parts of the marina. One owner had a 40' Carver and he had quite a bit of overhang into the fairway. My own boat was 38' and despite the extra cost, we decided to keep it at another marina with a larger slip.

 

[JDCAVE]

We bought our "last boat first" and didn't regret it. Yes, there were people on trawler forum who urged caution, etc, but 4 years on and no regrets. There is a learning curve but hey! It keeps life interesting.

Best advice I can give is to know yourself, be honest with yourself and your partner, and be aware this is an expensive proposition. And...get on a lot of boats first before you buy. Do take the power squadron courses, learn docking and handling skills from a good captain. Also 2-3 bare boat charters before you buy.

 

[Art]

I read all posts 1st page this thread... scanned the rest. Good input toward satisfying your questions/needs/desires/opportunity[ies]!

My one statement I think may work well for you... "don't buy too big a boat nor too small a boat"... each of these sizes can create various styles of dilemmas of one sort or another. Now, that input directive can be difficult for a previous non-boater to get handle on. So... I offer the following advice.

Make each list have category of importance; most wanted to least important.

1. Items you and wife desire/must have available on the boat
2. Number of people you plan to "usually" have aboard
3. Speed you desire to cruise at
4. $$$ and/or personal time you're willing to spend for maintenance/repairs, dockage, hauling, improvements... etc
5. Amount of dollar value-loss you are willing to accept if/when you decide to resell

This is just a sample of issues to address before purchase. I strongly recommend that you go onto MANY boats for sale to get "feel of the deal" before settling on a boat purchase. Of course... if the boat you mention on first page of thread really fits the bill for you and wife - Then Go forth And Conquer! Difference between handling a 34'er and a 43'er is not too hard to get used to.

Happy Boat-Search Daze - Art

 

[ktdtx]

I must admit I thought a thruster with a twin was kind of redundant, or dare I say it bad form & not for a "real" boater? Nothing inferred here, just trying to learn.

There is still a little "pseudo-macho" crap out there that Real Boaters do this & that, etc.

IMO--a Real Boater has the equipment he wants and needs to make his boating safe and enjoyable. This can vary with skill, geographical location, boating environment and lots of other things. Thruster(s) are becoming the norm on larger boats.

 

[Art]

There is still a little "pseudo-macho" crap out there that Real Boaters do this & that, etc.

IMO--a Real Boater has the equipment he wants and needs to make his boating safe and enjoyable. This can vary with skill, geographical location, boating environment and lots of other things. Thruster(s) are becoming the norm on larger boats.

Agreed!!

 

[markpierce]

A boat which cannot be readily docked or launched single-handed is seriously limited in usefulness, IMO. Thus, immediate access (OK, three seconds) between helm and dock is essential for me.

 

[CPseudonym]

A gentleman a few of us TF'ers met in Pittsburgh a couple years ago single hands his 70' Hatteras motor yacht just fine up and down the west coast. I imagine he'd be game to try a 140'er if he had one of those remote systems eyschelum mentioned upthread.

 

[SoWhat]

They question we are all missing is what is his wife capable of. After all, she will be at the helm a significant percentage of time, and she must be 100% competent at leaving and entering a dock or slip. (and not just the home slip)

If she doesn't feel confident and happy, the larger boat won't work, no matter how you rationalize the economics.

 

[eyschulman]

They question we are all missing is what is his wife capable of. After all, she will be at the helm a significant percentage of time, and she must be 100% competent at leaving and entering a dock or slip. (and not just the home slip)

If she doesn't feel confident and happy, the larger boat won't work, no matter how you rationalize the economics.

What you say has some merit but is not an absolute. My wife and I have been cruising every summer for over 40 years. While she can handle the boat in open water she is not so good as to be able to dock on a regular basis in tight spots. In a major emergency I am sure she can get the boat to a dock but the paint and hull may suffer. So I have conned over 20 odd cruising sail and power boats up to fifty feet in and it really does not matter that she is aboard. Because she is not so good with lines I some times have to control myself to let her do it even though I would be much faster and proficient. If your mate can take over or help all the better if not it is not essential if you understand your boat and docking procedures. With modern technology it can be a piece of cake but that is not essential. I knew that I could do it at a relatively young age(in my 30s) when I observed working skippers handle their boats often alone. If they can do it so can you.

 

[BandB]

If your mate can take over or help all the better

Wifey B: My mate can take over.

 

[CraigC]

So, in large part, does it depend MOSTLY on how difficult/time-consuming it is to get in and out of the slip (tying up/launching)?

If it is especially windy, then the difference between 34 and 43 becomes really significant?

(Apart from the HOA issues regarding the vessel protruding into the fairway)

 

[eyschulman]

So, in large part, does it depend MOSTLY on how difficult/time-consuming it is to get in and out of the slip (tying up/launching)?

If it is especially windy, then the difference between 34 and 43 becomes really significant?

(Apart from the HOA issues regarding the vessel protruding into the fairway)

My 18 foot single diesel tiller boat is a snap to get into a slip compared to the 50 footer, but what a difference in accommodation and comfort. If a boater is looking for comfort and accommodation the larger boat usually trumps the smaller and five to ten foot of extra boat makes a big difference. So if you want or need and can afford the extra boat length just go ahead and learn how to cope with it. just my experience and opinion. I also have had situations where some larger heavier boats were easier to dock than smaller they don't necessarily get whipped around and seem to be more predictable. I don't think a houseboat would fit that description but many trawler types and semi displacement types may.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CC. The way I read the OP is he will be retiring shortly and relocating to a new, to him, waterfront property on the St. Lawrence River. He will be using whatever vessel he purchases as a day boat, at this time, for the most part.

As has been mentioned, larger size equates to larger expenses, not for summer usage, per say, but for winter storage. The season on the St.Lawrence probably lasts 6 mos. max.

Maneuvering issues aside, as mentioned in posts #59 and #60 maybe an alternate style of boat would be more suitable at this time. Horses for courses.

 

[CraigC]

RT, gotcha. I'm a full-time liveaboard where we have a year-'round season. Luke's parameters are entirely different.

BTW, sorry, I am a little drunk. But now I get it.

 

[Art]

Aw heck... after reading more pots since I posted... I might as well say it!


IMHO - Look into twin screw Tollycraft flybridge boats from 34' to 48'. Great builds, good and comfortable designs... with decades of usable life remaining, so long as having been cared for by PO's. Usually having darn good/affordable prices too!


Cheers!


Art

 

[Luke-44]

They question we are all missing is what is his wife capable of. After all, she will be at the helm a significant percentage of time, and she must be 100% competent at leaving and entering a dock or slip...

Well, that's a whole new twist I definitely hadn't figured on. She's on board with the whole boating idea but just as she never drives when we go by car she'll virtually never be at the helm. Just not her. When I explained she would need to be trained in the event of a medical emergency (heaven forbid) her reply was that is what a cell phone or radio is for - call the coast guard! Nope, I highly doubt she'll ever do any docking. Tying off yes, as she has done on our friends boat, but not operating the controls.

Update on the slip: first of all thanks for the input, I really didn't realize a shorter dock could be so problematic, glad to have the feedback. In my little port individual slips are loosely assigned and can be traded. A new-to-the-area neighbor has been assigned one of the 3 longer slips, they are also a few steps higher. He owns seadoos, the higher dock is a problem for him, he has to jump down to get onto his seadoo. We spoke tonight about a "trade", so it could work out for both parties, we'll see how it goes, he want's to have another look in the daylight tomorrow.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Yes Mr RTF but these 6 month are so wonderfully marvelous! From spring with birds nesting, through summer and these extraordinary nights out to automn when birds migration and nature colors make the season end an awesome show... I just cannot wait for next spring to experience this again!

 

[Lou_tribal]

BTW, sorry, I am a little drunk. But now I get it.

No excuse to be just half drunk, if you do somethingndo it right so get drunk!

 

[CPseudonym]

My wife never took the helm once but would have no trouble cutting the anchor line and heading for the barn after calling proper authorities. Again, we where not in Antarctica but if it doesn't have to be pretty and yachtie helming the boat isn't exactly rocket science.

Again, horses for courses as RT rightly pointed out. If FF where here he'd point out the KISS principle will cure most objections.

 

[CraigC]

Lou, good grief, I HAD to have been drunk, to buy the boat that I ended up with... I have a feeling that Luke is a much more pragmatic fellow than am I.

I had dinner and switched to hot chocolate (sugar free). Dammit, I can't do anything right!

 

[johnma]

luke,
I live in Philly and just retired from a job in NJ. I have a single with a bow thruster. My last boat had twins with no thruster. With twins you won't need one. Where is the boat now? Canada or NJ. If its in NJ and you're bringing it north yourself, hire a captain for the trip and you will be a pro by the time you get there.
Look up the South Jersey Coast Guard Auxiliary. They run classroom courses during the winter, both beginner and advanced.
John

 

[Luke-44]

Yup, it's very pretty, but then again I may be a bit biased. Some shots of my new back yard...

Of course the city of Kingston is not far away...

And then, my favorite view....where I'll be learning how to dock...notice how the 10 center slips are quite sheltered, almost always glass smooth...the outside of the island is more prone to wind. There's a 43 on the far right slip in the pic that's still in the water, the 2 end docks are longer...the 4 fingers pointing out would be one of the 35 footers in question, the one around the corner on the left is longer and higher too - the guy assigned one of these has a problem because he's a sea-dooer and its hard for him to access from the higher dock. This would be late October just before the season finishes. Turn left out of our little bay and it's the St Lawrence/1000 Islands/Montreal/Ottawa, turn right it's Lake Ontario/Kingston/Toronto and to the Rideau and trent canals etc..

 

[CraigC]

Dayum! Ooookay... 43 it is, if you can work it out with your neighbor...

As Green Day, my Oaktown homies said, "Welcome to Paradise!"

(Safe assumption: bruh, you earned it. Congrats!)