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Old 04-21-2012, 09:51 AM   #21
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I agree. You could have handled it in a more professional manner.

Getting yourself upset while boating just goes against the core of why I'm out there. I'll come all-stop if needed to let the idiots out of my sight.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:09 AM   #22
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A while back, I was on the ICW and came up on a tug pushing a barge. He was going just a little slower than I was so I wanted to pass him. I hailed him several times on channel 16 and got no response. I waited for a wide spot in the channel and opened it up and passed him. Never a word from him. In retrospect, I should have used my horn.

Someone suggested later that tugs monitor channel 13, not 16. I thought all boats were required to monitor 16 (if they have a VHF and it's turned on).
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:36 PM   #23
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We will soon (hopefully) be purchasing our liveaboard/workaboard trawler as our research vessel. While we are out there most of the season producing video cruising guides for our site, we want to capture - on video - any of the stupid things ignorant boaters do, like a big boat on a semi-plane plowing through a no wake zone, etc. I'd like to be able to at least get the boat's name on camera then upload these videos to our site. Maybe they or their friends will see what they did and learn from it.

Question is, what should we name this section of videos on our site (which we will launch soon)? I don't want to name it "Stupid Boaters", but something along those lines that gets the point across...
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #24
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:33 PM   #25
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:07 PM   #26
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.....and maybe a handful of sailboats who refused to slow down as I tried to pass. We just ignore the sailboats since they always seem to be in a world all their own......
I think you are the one that needs to read the rules of the road. I'm not sure how much the book costs these days but it is not expensive. West Marine usually has them in stock.

If the truth be known, other than in this forum, most power boaters are totally clueless about the rules of the road and feel no responsibility for their wake....as you just found out. Most sailboaters are very aware of the rules of the road because they can put themselves in a situation they can't get of. We usually dont go sailing on weekends because of all of the power boats out there.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:13 PM   #27
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In retrospect, I should have used my horn.

Someone suggested later that tugs monitor channel 13, not 16. I thought all boats were required to monitor 16 (if they have a VHF and it's turned on).
I'll bet you were in Louisiana at the time. Anyway, depending where in La. you are, the traffic in channels changes from 16 to 13 in most places.
A good book to buy is US Coast Pilot for the Gulf of Mex area. Thay have all that onfo and also bridge and locks info including radio freq's and telephone numbers.
If you had used your horn, I seriously doubt he would have heard it.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #28
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"Sailboaters" frequently operate their vessels as motorboats and aren't unknown for believing they always have the "right of way" even under sail.

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Old 04-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #29
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If the truth be known, other than in this forum, most power boaters are totally clueless about the rules of the road and feel no responsibility for their wake....as you just found out. Most sailboaters are very aware of the rules of the road because they can put themselves in a situation they can't get of.
I think this comment is 100% on the mark. A fair number of the members of the boating club we belong to are sailboaters. We have taken several longer cruises into BC in the company of a couple with a sailboat. In the early 80s I was on the racing crew of a co-worker's sailboat for a few seasons. And I sailed with friends who had sailboats in Hawaii for many years.

In my observation and experience this notion that sailboaters are sailing along totally ignorant of their surroundings while singing Kubayah is total bollocks. The sailboats I have had occasion to talk to on the VHF were immediately responsive and their radio reception and broadcast power and clarity was as good as any powerboat. And in talking to the sailboaters in our club, their experience level and knowledge of our local waters is in general much greater than the average powerboater I meet.

Having raced a sailboat I can tell you that they are not automatically the quietest boats in the world. With a good wind and under sail there can be a fair amount of noise from the water and wind. And under power you have the engine noise which is generally not as great as it is on a powerboater. But a lot of sailboats--- all the ones I've had experience with were like this--- have their nav and communications equipment down below to keep them out of the weather. Perhaps this is changing with the more water resistant radios that are on the market today. But it is certainly possible to simply not hear the radio under some conditions. So that might account for some of the "never answer the radio" accusations a lot of powerboaters make against sailors.

The people I have talked to in our marina since getting our GB about local knowledge, anchoring techniques, best routes in and out of tight places and so on have almost exclusively been sailboaters. Because they're the ones who know. I do know a few powerboaters--- Carey for example--- who posses this same level of knowledge and local experience, but not many.

But if we want to talk about clueless boaters, about boaters who are inconsiderate, who ignore what's going on around them, are worthless when it comes to using the radio, who clearly do not know or understand the Colregs and worse, don't care, whose knowledge of navigation is surpassed by my dog's, who haven't a clue about how the systems on their boats work, you'll find yourself talking to a powerboater almost every single time.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:46 PM   #30
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So we've taken Polly P. all the way down to Melbourne, half-way back to Brunswick GA, and finally home to NC last week. In all that time I think I encountered maybe two boats who gave us a rude pass, and maybe a handful of sailboats who refused to slow down as I tried to pass. We just ignore the sailboats since they always seem to be in a world all their own, and my wife screamed at one of the rude passes on VHF 16, using profanity no less.
I wouldn't expect a sailboat under sail alone to slow down for a passing situation. It's not like moving the throttle handle.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:48 PM   #31
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Mark---From your past posts I believe you've had a fair amount of sailing experience on the bay there. What's your assessment of the attitude and awareness of the majority of the sailboaters in your area?
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:07 PM   #32
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What's your assessment of the attitude and awareness of the majority of the sailboaters in your area?
Generally, very good. Still, last year a sailboat tacked in front of me in the middle of the bay for no apparent reason, and I had to make "emergency" moves to avoid him. I try to give sailboats a wide berth.

While doing a lot of bay racing in the 1960s and day sailing in the 1980s, I never experienced problems with powerboaters that I recall except for a speedboat passing close and intentionally spraying us. Perhaps he thought we needed a cool shower on that hot, still day.

But then, I'd always avoid "the crazies days" of opening day and the Fourth.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #33
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You won't get hold of me on the VHF. A big reason I go boating is to get away from all the 'requests'. You don't need to ask or advise, whatever you want to do out there on the water is OK by me.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:12 PM   #34
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For boaters with a fair amount of experience is many waters....

Doesn't matter whether you are an armchair sailor with a stack of mags with all the articles written on this very subject or a cruiser who plys the ICW every year...ANY boater worth their salt has seen or first hand or read about how to properly do a ICW pass. Now of course there's some disagreement and interpretation...of just what is a proper pass......but all in all it all works out to be the same. Pay attention or read the mags...it's not hard. How is it done???? You either know or don't.

Tug and barge on the ICW or entering NY/Philadelphia/Norfolk ports??? We are just speed bumps to them. Talk to a few cappy's...they will tell you that if they run you over....their first beer that day will taste the same. Call them if you want (and I agree that you should) but don't expect a reply...you should but won't always get one. they just assume you know they will run you over so they expect you to behave accoringly...very simple.

Me??? I say fly on by...if there's a wake...I'm ready for it and only lasts a few seconds...if none...so much the better. Back in the East...sailboaters are just as clueless as anyone...MAYBE better read but no more practical experience on the whole. For those that want to talk sailing...remember a lot of trawler owners probably have more experience sailing than most sailors...that's why they own trawlers now..

Wanna know why many boaters blow through no wake zones??? Teach hands on boating or do deliveries with owners aboard for a couple decades...you'll figure it out real quick.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:20 PM   #35
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I'll bet you were in Louisiana at the time. Anyway, depending where in La. you are, the traffic in channels changes from 16 to 13 in most places.
A good book to buy is US Coast Pilot for the Gulf of Mex area. Thay have all that onfo and also bridge and locks info including radio freq's and telephone numbers.
If you had used your horn, I seriously doubt he would have heard it.
16 is to be monitored by anyone with a radio on board....thus why there is a scan or DW feature on radios now...commercial guys especially.

13 is almost always monitored by comm traffic country wide as it's where most talk rather than use whistle signals.

Why buy the coast pilot when it can be downloaded for free...
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:45 PM   #36
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16 is to be monitored by anyone with a radio on board....thus why there is a scan or DW feature on radios now...commercial guys especially.
This is not entirely true. In a zone where there is USCG Vessel Traffic System, such as the Puget Sound, all commercial traffic that is required to report in to Traffic Control is required to monitor the VHF traffic channel. Here in the PNW the channels are 14, or 5A depending on the local area of operation.

If a vessel that is required to participate in the Vessel Traffic System is operating in that system THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO MONITOR VHF 16.

They are required to monitor the Traffic Control channel (either 14 or 5A) and VHF 13. (Bridge to Bridge)

Quote:

Note to 161.12(c): As stated in 47 CFR 80.148(b), a very high frequency watch on Channel 16 (156.800 MHz) is not required on vessels subject to the Vessel Bridge-to-Bridge Radiotelephone Act and participating in a Vessel Traffic Service (VTS) system when the watch is maintained on both the vessel bridge-to-bridge frequency and a designated VTS frequency.
End quote

So, calling that large ship about to run you down on VHF 16 will not do you any good. Call them on either VHF 13 or the correct Traffic Control channel. If I need to contact large ships or tug-and-tows is use the VTS channel, as I know the VTS radio control room is listening to the call.

Non-participating vessels, (that's us) are advised to listen only unless an emergency or close quarters situation exists, requiring communication with the commercial vessel.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:52 PM   #37
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Tug and barge on the ICW or entering NY/Philadelphia/Norfolk ports??? We are just speed bumps to them. Talk to a few cappy's...they will tell you that if they run you over....their first beer that day will taste the same. Call them if you want (and I agree that you should) but don't expect a reply...you should but won't always get one. they just assume you know they will run you over so they expect you to behave accoringly...very simple.
That's my understanding too on the left coast.



These professionals rolled me hard with their wake. I underestimated the power of their wake and had failed to meet it head on.

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Old 04-21-2012, 07:09 PM   #38
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This is not entirely true. In a zone where there is USCG Vessel Traffic System, such as the Puget Sound, all commercial traffic that is required to report in to Traffic Control is required to monitor the VHF traffic channel. Here in the PNW the channels are 14, or 5A depending on the local area of operation.

If a vessel that is required to participate in the Vessel Traffic System is operating in that system THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO MONITOR VHF 16.

They are required to monitor the Traffic Control channel (either 14 or 5A) and VHF 13. (Bridge to Bridge)

Quote:

Note to 161.12(c): As stated in 47 CFR 80.148(b), a very high frequency watch on Channel 16 (156.800 MHz) is not required on vessels subject to the Vessel Bridge-to-Bridge Radiotelephone Act and participating in a Vessel Traffic Service (VTS) system when the watch is maintained on both the vessel bridge-to-bridge frequency and a designated VTS frequency.
End quote

So, calling that large ship about to run you down on VHF 16 will not do you any good. Call them on either VHF 13 or the correct Traffic Control channel. If I need to contact large ships or tug-and-tows is use the VTS channel, as I know the VTS radio control room is listening to the call.

Non-participating vessels, (that's us) are advised to listen only unless an emergency or close quarters situation exists, requiring communication with the commercial vessel.
In the U.S., Coast Guard regulations require that you monitor channel 16:

"Vessels not required to carry a VHF marine radio (e.g. recreational vessels less than 20m length and commercial vessels under 100 GT carrying less than 6 passengers), but which voluntarily carry a radio, must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radio is not being used to communicate. Effective 2004 if a radio is carried, it must be turned on and set to channel 16 whenever the vessel is underway."

Source: FCC 47 CFR 80.310

Not sure which is most current or both are and because the average recreational trawler IS NOT subject to the Vessel Bridge-to-Bridge Radiotelephone Act ...then I think you ARE supposed to monitor it.

Plus for the rest of the time most boaters AREN'T in a VTS...then they are...like the ICW which is where we were talking about anyway...
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:14 PM   #39
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Let me play Devil's Advocate on this, if I may. Interesting timing on this. Bess and I got pretty heavily waked last weekend as we came back home to New Bern from the Oriental Boat Show and had a lengthy discussion about wakes, their effects, and courtesy.

First, I'll start with the bottom line. It's a wave. That's all it is. Our boats can handle it and quite a bit more. Can it do damage? Sure, but in open water and even in the ICW, there is room to handle it without incurring major damage. That said, I think we all understand that we are responsible for damages cause by our boat's wake. However, it would be HARD to prove in a hearing, and all the yelling and screaming on the radio won't help a bit. So, we all need to be aware and take steps to secure our stuff onboard because it can, and will, happen at any time. If you boat gets tossed around and you break a lamp, a TV, or drop a bowl of cereal on your new carpet, you have nobody to blame but yourself. (*Note* Personal injury like a fall may be a bit grey, but wakes rarely come as a huge surprise and the Captain should alert the crew should one be on the way. Still, the argument could be made both ways.) I mean, short of swamping or capsizing your boat, I'm not sure you would ever have a claim with a wake in open water. In a marina, that's another topic altogether.

While I think we may want courtesy from all of our fellow boaters, it is a very selfish thing to EXPECT it and even more to feel you deserve it. Thus, being overly pissed off when you don't get it seem like a waste of effort. You really just need to always prepare for ******** of all kinds out there. Everyone has their own agenda and travels through life at their own pace. Some people think they don't owe anyone anything and that their schedule is all that matters to them. And personally, I have to provide a certain amount respect to them for it, but with a side order of caution.

We got waked pretty hard. Drawers fell open, furniture got scattered and Bess got pretty scared, but it was over in a few seconds and all the hailing on VHF 16 probably wouldn't have helped. He's going to do what he wants to out here.

Next time, we'll tie down the furniture (we usually do, but didn't this time), steer a little better to avoid it, and note the name of the vessel for next time. It's just a wave. Our boat can handle it. No since crying over spilled milk (or Merlot as the case may be).

Don't think I am a waker. I am not!... except this one time I made a huge mistake trying to make our bridge opening... but anyway... and I am not justifying it. I just have resolved myself to the fact that I have not earned the respect, nor do I expect respect, from anyone out there. If we get a slow pass, all the better, but is we don't, I just see it as it is. A big wave that might break my TV if I didn't bother to put it on the bed when we cast off.

The freedoms that our boat provides us, sometimes comes at a cost. Motorcycles are the same way. I ride to work on my Concours every day all year-round. I do what we can to make myself as visible as I can and drive as defensively as humanly possible, but with all the beauty that comes with motorcycling, I will always run a huge risk of some dickwad not having enough vision to see me. THEN it's time to pay the fiddler. I will be hurt BADLY. There are always risks you can't control and some you can.

"You can't control other people's behavior, only how you react to it."

Tom-

(*Foot Note* This was written by a yacht owner. We all own boats that can handle about any wake out there. Should the same boat plow through a sunfish regatta or swamp a bass boat, that is a completely different argument.)
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:41 PM   #40
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psneeld,

I understand that you are discussing the intercoastal and the situation can be different in different areas.

Yes, recreational boaters must monitor VHF 16 when not using the VHF on another channel.

My point is, that the monitoring of VHF 16 by ALL vessels is not a 'universal' rule and there are exceptions.

My opinion is that to be sure of reaching a large ship, or tow, use VHF 13, or the Traffic Control VHF channel if there is one in the area where you are operating.

Here are the areas with Vessel Traffic Systems:
Berwick Bay, Louisiana
Houston/Galveston
Los Angeles/Long Beach
Louisville
Lower Mississippi River
New York
Port Arthur
Prince William Sound
Puget Sound
Saint Mary's River
San Francisco
Tampa
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