Holding Tank Lock Out

[DCDC]

Our holding tanks have both overboard discharge and deck fittings for vacuum service. The overboard discharge systems have a macerator pump and a local switch with a keyed switch in series. The keyed switch locks out the pump so no discharge is possible without a key.

As we crossed yesterday from Bimini to Miami we prepared for U.S. regs. As the discharge through hulls are difficult to access at sea, I just locked the pump switches and stored the keys. I see this as comparable to a locked valve.

Any thoughts as to how LE might react to this method?

 

[psneeld]

A keyed switch to a macerator where the key can be secured is supposed to be good enough....most likely 9 out of 10 times the LEO will agree...but you can't bet on no issues no matter how well you explain or they supposedly understand the intent of the law which states the recommended ways are not all inclusive.

 

[firehoser75]

I agree with psneeld, that should meet the "spirit" of the law and be considered adequate as you cannot discharge without "intent" (unlocking the pump) and the same would apply if you lock the thru hull handle in the closed position.

Common sense says that any LEO should agree (but we all know how common that is)
Don't forget to post the required signage (waste management plan) regarding garbage and overboard discharge somewhere on board.

 

[menzies]

Our macerator breaker has a cover over it that has to be pushed aside to turn on the breaker. When we got the boat the through hull was closed but there was nothing securing it. Now we put a cable tie on that needs to be cut to open it.

However I have always thought this was a strange reg. If the idea is to stop someone from accidentally operating the macerator through an open through hull, then simply having the through hull closed would do that - it is hard to "accidentally" open a through hull.

If the idea to to stop boaters from purposefully pumping into the water, they can simply cut the cable tie, get the key and turn on the switch, reattach the handle, pump, and immediately put everything back to where they were. It takes seconds.

 

[HeadMistress]

If the idea to to stop boaters from purposefully pumping into the water, they can simply cut the cable tie, get the key and turn on the switch, reattach the handle, pump, and immediately put everything back to where they were. It takes seconds.

Only proving once again that no system is foolproof because fools are more creative at defeating it than in working with it.



--Peggie

 

[firehoser75]

I agree menzies....... always seemed strange to me, but I just try to follow the rules, which isn't always easy.

 

[wwestman]

No one "accidentally" pumps out their holding tank. The idea is to make it a purposeful act so that when you get caught there is no argument about the ticket you get. Of course those who purposely pump out will still bitch and argue about the ticket.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Many (US) National Park Service waters require discharge hoses to be capped prior to the thru hull.

 

[porman]

The Washington State Dept of Ecology says you can lock the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock to prevent discharges. ??????

 

[O C Diver]

The one that has worked for me so far was removing the seacock handle. So far, no complaints from USCG, DNR from FL and MD. Interestingly, none have bothered to check if it was seacock was in the open or closed position.

Ted

 

[menzies]

If the idea to to stop boaters from purposefully pumping into the water, they can simply cut the cable tie, get the key and turn on the switch, reattach the handle, pump, and immediately put everything back to where they were. It takes seconds.

Only proving once again that no system is foolproof because fools are more creative at defeating it than in working with it.


--Peggie

You really think you need to be creative to "defeat" a cable tie, a removed handle, or a removed key?

The point was - the reg does nothing to prevent discharge. Either people will do it and only get cited because they are caught in the actual discharge, or people will not do it. The reg does not change that one iota.

 

[menzies]

The Washington State Dept of Ecology says you can lock the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock to prevent discharges. ??????

So their position is, if you half fill your holding tank and then lock the door to the head, you can't discharge. Smart. Clearly written by a boater!

 

[dhays]

We have a valve in the hose that connects the holding tank to the macerator pump. It is closed, and the handle is removed. There is a through hull (above waterline) that is located under the head sink. That handle is in place but frankly it is hard to find even if you know what you are looking for. On the rare times I do pump overboard, I forget about that valve 1/2 the time. Finally, I have the switch to the macerator pump zip-tied closed.

Since I pump overboard very rarely (BC is the only place it is legal under certain conditions so the last time was almost two years ago) it isn’t too inconvenient. I just have to remember to open those two valves, then cut the zip-tie then remember to close the two valves, remove one of the handles, and replace the zip-tie before I re-enter US waters.

 

[menzies]

Dave, that is the same cover I have on my switch. I never thought of having a cable tie on that. Great idea!

I would also suggest that that would negate having to put a tie on the through hull - or even close the through hull. Because if you are cutting that breaker tie, you are also throwing the through hull lever!

 

[STB]

Hey Menzies, Hey Dave,

I love that lockout. Who makes it?

Cheers!
-Greg

 

[menzies]

Hey Menzies, Hey Dave,

I love that lockout. Who makes it?

Cheers!
-Greg

Installed already when I got the boat. Tried to do a Google for you, but no good.

 

[rochepoint]

It is from Blue Seas click this link.....

I have two on our boat, one for the holding tank and one for the fridge. Our last dog had a nasty habit of turning the fridge off with his tail......

 

[STB]

Hi Menzies: Thanks so very much for looking. I had the same luck!

Hi Rochepoint: Wow! Thank you! If that were a snake, it have bit me. I would never have thought of searching for a "toggle guard". Tried lock out, cover, flip cover, and protector. Thank you again!

 

[dhays]

Hey Menzies, Hey Dave,

I love that lockout. Who makes it?

Rocherpoint beat me to the link. I have a bunch of those covers on my boat. Most from the PO, but I recently added a few. I have them on anything that I want left on or definitely left off. Refrigerator is one, main house bank is another, solar panel etc....

To add the zip-tie you just have to drill through the switch cover from the side. I used a 1/8” drill which is big enough to handle the very small ties.

 

[k9medic]

I removed the switch cover portion of the switch on the panel for my macerator. 5 USCG inspections later, it's still good.

To pump, I simply put the cover back on and turn on the switch.

 

[Island Cessna]

PO used the “close seacock and remove handle” method. Purchase surveyor wrote it up saying every seacock must be operable by any crew member. LEO is not the only entity who can have an opinion!

 

[menzies]

I removed the switch cover portion of the switch on the panel for my macerator. 5 USCG inspections later, it's still good.

To pump, I simply put the cover back on and turn on the switch.

Which part is that exactly?

 

[psneeld]

PO used the “close seacock and remove handle” method. Purchase surveyor wrote it up saying every seacock must be operable by any crew member. LEO is not the only entity who can have an opinion!

your surveyor needs a few more sea miles...the only reason to leave the handle off is when it is in the closed position....which is the position you want in an emergency.

 

[menzies]

...the only reason to leave the handle off is when it is in the closed position....which is the position you want in an emergency.

I don't understand that, can you write it another way?

 

[psneeld]

To comply you're with the pollution regulations, you need to have the seacock in the closed position when you take the handle off. If that is the method you are choosing to comply with the regulation.


The main reason to have a seacock is if something downstream starts leaking and you need to turn the sea cock off. If it's already off getting the handle back quickly on or even bothering to put it back on really doesn't matter.

 

[DCDC]

Thanks for all the feedback. Helps with adhering to requirements in a sensible manner.

 

[Bill R.]

All,
Although I can't speak for National Park Service regulations I am a certified vessel inspector in the United States Power Squadron and give the same inspection with the sticker that the USCG AUX. gives.
I have passed many boats with the tie wrap on the thru hull or with the handle removed.
I have not seen the tie on the breaker but that would suffice in my opinion also.

Like has been said it is to prevent accidental discharge.

Bill R.

 

[k9medic]

Which part is that exactly?

This part -

The switch then looks like this in the panel -

 

[ksanders]

hmmm all this talk abut securing from discharge...

I have a Raritan Hold N Treat controller, which is the only way to run the macerator pump.

All I have to do is turn the key to the “off” position and remove the key to be in compliance when in a NDZ.

When not in a NDZ I turn the key to “automatic” and the holding tank stays empty, plus I do not have any 3 mile requirement as the system can only discharge treated waste.

 

[JohnEasley]

I have the switch to the macerator pump zip-tied closed.
View attachment 89872

Great idea! I just ordered some from Hamilton Marine.