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Old 06-29-2012, 01:02 PM   #41
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Too bad we live so far apart...we're thinking of going the opposite route. We currently own and love our GB42 but because of where we live and our boat is moored we're a good 2.5 hours away from the nearest anchorage. Changes in our worklives and other commitments is leaving us substantially less time for the important things like boating. Thinking a fast-cruiser may be the way to go. BTW, as others have said there's nothing wrong with a properly built and maintained Taiwanese boat. - Boyd
Oh yeah, almost forgot...If at all possible find a surveyor that is Lloyd's certified. Likely a more expensive hire, but very thorough.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:37 PM   #42
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So the owners goop till some leaks stop , and continue to enjoy cottaging aboard.

This actually works just fine for decades , just never take one of these boats into an offshore situation. One comber landing on board may remove too much boat.

FF

Exactly. I all depends on what you want to use the boat for and how important it is to you that everything be perfectly ship shape. I bought an old, tired MT 34' because:

  • It was very affordable.
  • The engine was solid.
  • She looks very salty - at docks with high end go-fast boats and modern big $ cruisers people walk out to look at and ask about my 1974 TT.
  • It works.
She has the typical soft decks and rotting house core but for puttering around on the Bay she's hard to beat. In 5 years she has never let me down or put me in a dangerous situation.


But, offshore - not a chance!
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #43
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After all of this I am not sure it is possible to find anything used that doesn,t leak somplace and has the associated rot in some form or fashion. And yes the boat will be brought into the same shape as my aircraft, "Ship shape or completely air worthy". Mt Rinker is a 95 and in excellent condition. Yes things break down and need repairing. They are repaired correctly, I know because I do it, and every time I make a repair everything associated with the repair is improved back to new condition. Going to look at Tolly Craft now.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:58 PM   #44
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Going to look at Tolly Craft now.
Ken
Ken - What size, model, year Tolly? PM me if you like. I know a bit about Tollycraft! - Art
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:04 PM   #45
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Refugio, thanks for the link to Bill Bishop's blog. Very good stuff... I am sure I'll have to spend some time looking at back posts there. The blog entry on our boats' water tanks was great.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:20 AM   #46
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"But, offshore - not a chance!"

This is never a problem as the boat was not designed or constructed to go in blue water from the day it was assembled.

FF
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:59 AM   #47
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I am now looking at a Foggman. It is a Downeast full keeled semidisplacement design with 120 HP Diesel. Hull is wood with fiberglass covered. Deck solid wood. Anyone ever head of this animal?

Ken
PS Clipper is still in the works but Broker and owner not very responsive, can't seem to get schedule for second look. All seem to be too busy.
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:07 AM   #48
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I am now looking at a Foggman. It is a Downeast full keeled semidisplacement design with 120 HP Diesel. Hull is wood with fiberglass covered. Deck solid wood. Anyone ever head of this animal?

Ken
PS Clipper is still in the works but Broker and owner not very responsive, can't seem to get schedule for second look. All seem to be too busy.
Usually not good...but could be one that was done OK.....If done OK...there's so much glass on there with 120 hp diesel she's probably only displacement now.

I wouldn't probably even consider it.
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:19 AM   #49
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I assume this is the boat you're looking at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1797&url=

I know nothing about it but that pait job sure looks nice. Someone cared a lot about it at some point.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:41 AM   #50
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I assume this is the boat you're looking at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1797&url=

I know nothing about it but that pait job sure looks nice. Someone cared a lot about it at some point.
That is a sweet looking boat. For $30k I'd certainly consider it. Get the survey then weigh the results against the price and how you intend to use the boat.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:15 AM   #51
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Weight could be a issue I guess. I know of a couple that spent 4 years rebuilding their Downeast boat. They also fibeglassed the hull to reduce maintenance. They love it but said would not do again. They presently live on it in the Summer.
Definately looking for economical costsal cruiser but also capable of an of shore excursion if desired. Not really sure what constitutes that capability. Certainly sea keeping, but what else.

Ken
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:23 AM   #52
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Weight could be a issue I guess. I know of a couple that spent 4 years rebuilding their Downeast boat. They also fibeglassed the hull to reduce maintenance. They love it but said would not do again. They presently live on it in the Summer.
Definately looking for economical costsal cruiser but also capable of an of shore excursion if desired. Not really sure what constitutes that capability. Certainly sea keeping, but what else.

Ken
Here's from what I have heard about wood boats being glassed for the last 40+ years. First...unless it was epoxy...it really doesn't stick to the wood unless mechanically fastened with a bazillion staples. Then it has t be so thick it that when the wood swells/shricks form water/temperature...the glass is thick enough to be it's own hull (unless the hull is plywood already)....if it's THATthick...then weight is an issue for a semi-displacement or planing hull.

Then you have the issue of as the glass and wood doesn't really "work" like a wooden hull, what is happening to the original wood to rib fastenings and to the ribs themselves.

As I said..there have been successful covering jobs....there is also about a 90+ percent failure rate but done to stretch the life a few more years till sold to someone unsuspecting.

I would more than doubletake if I was even considering...
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #53
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Thanks, makes since. Expansion and contraction rates will be different than the wood and glass. Many aircraft wings are birch plywood then covered with fibeglass cloth. They do not have the expansion contraction problem and temperatures do very more than a boat. I will have to see what they use, epoxy or glass. My bet is that epoxy is used. Weight is very critical in an aircraft as you can well imagine.

This does make me think.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:55 AM   #54
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Greetings,
Mr. K. MY opinion...Stay away regardless of what "plastic" the wood hull is covered with. I fully concur with Mr.psneeld. Ain't lookin' for boats fun? I think it is.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:57 PM   #55
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I am now looking at a Foggman. It is a Downeast full keeled semidisplacement design with 120 HP Diesel. Hull is wood with fiberglass covered. Deck solid wood. Anyone ever head of this animal?

Ken
PS Clipper is still in the works but Broker and owner not very responsive, can't seem to get schedule for second look. All seem to be too busy.
There is always a reason a timber hull gets fibreglassed and it`s never good. What is happening between the wood and the glass? How do you check?
The Clipper 30 was in rental fleets in Sydney,along with the Clipper 34 (= Marine Trader). I hired one years ago in winter, apart from mild hypothermia one night it was a good boat for a couple. Had a 4 cylinder 80hp diesel from memory,maybe Ford Lehman. I don`t remember teak decks,a blessing in an older boat. Easy to handle, we tried it in a seaway contrary to hire restrictions,it went quite well in a following sea.
The trouble with rot is how much further it can extend than you think, and not be discovered without dismantling. BruceK
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:11 PM   #56
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As I said..there have been successful covering jobs....there is also about a 90+ percent failure rate but done to stretch the life a few more years till sold to someone unsuspecting.

I would more than doubletake if I was even considering...
Where did you get the information for the 90% failure rate from ? .... I'ld love to read that article.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:00 PM   #57
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Where did you get the information for the 90% failure rate from ? .... I'ld love to read that article.
Can't recall exactly where, but I've read that 83.4% of statistics are made up on the spot
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:26 AM   #58
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Where did you get the information for the 90% failure rate from ? .... I'ld love to read that article.
You just read the article...if you would like to see my credentials...I'll make sure I submit a nicer title page on my next post....

I'll put money on the statistic if you doubt it....but you are correct that it's just an observation from someone who has studied the subject way more than most...therefore probably very accurate...

CPseudonym- Stop reading my mind...though it's a short read..
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:13 AM   #59
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I am now looking at a Foggman. It is a Downeast full keeled semidisplacement design with 120 HP Diesel. Hull is wood with fiberglass covered. Deck solid wood. Anyone ever head of this animal?
I've never heard of Foggman, but that is indeed an attractive boat. I'm a little surprised that they don't provide any pictures of the interior - I'd like to see the quality of the joinery

As others have said, with a fiberglass covering it is unlikely to plane so that 14 kts is a fantasy.

I mention a lot of books, but there's one that is particularly relevant to this boat: "Covering Wooden Boats with Fiberglass" by Allan Vaitses. The book was written in 1981 and covered the author's 15 years of experience doing exactly that, mostly with Maine lobster boats though he does mention a Rybovich that he RE-fiberglassed and a few other yachts.

I talked to the author a few times in the mid-80s when I was considering covering my 32' Monk cruiser. I started with replacing the canvas covering over the saloon cabin top and used matt and roving, fastened with stainless steel staples. I also changed his technique of laying up wet, and then fastening - I laid up dry and fastened first before saturating. I'm not an accomplished craftsman, but the job turned out quite well - it just took an enormous amount of time so I decided against covering the hull. In the 90s I ended up spending $10K (the value of the boat) rebuilding the transom, and a subsequent owner spent about that redoing much of the hull in the following decade.

If you are seriously intersted in this boat, you should source a copy of the book and learn about terminating the covering, finishing tecnhiques, et cetera. One warning sign I see is that they didn't also cover the decks, the biggest source of the fresh-water intrusion that will ruin a wood boat.

Most fiberglass coverings that I have seen failed have used cloth, which IMHO has no place on a boat (Vaitses cautions against it as well). If the covering on this boat is substantial, you might get many years of use from this boat.

If the fiberglass covering scares you off but you are comfortable with a wood boat, you might look at the old Grand Banks 32 woodies - here's one from 1970 located in RI for $38K:
1970 Grand Banks Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #60
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Can't recall exactly where, but I've read that 83.4% of statistics are made up on the spot

I believe they come from, "The Institute of Latest Studies."
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