To help or not to help.

[dhays]

As to the VHF - I can't imagine getting underway without it for too many reasons to list here. Two installed and one waterproof (?) handheld.

Agreed. Not only is it required by the COLREGS, it just is common sense and courtesy.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Only question I am asking myself is "If I was in the same situation with single engine, would I like to see a good Samaritan he!p me out of that mess? For sure! So why I would not do it too?

Maybe, to help all of us, law pros TFers could come up with a kind of contract/discharge we could get signed/approved before giving assistance so nobody get into trouble? I guess this would be of benefit for everybody?

L

 

[BruceK]

Lou, I would have reservations about the effectiveness of a doc signed by a person on a boat being washed towards rocks. They would likely sign anything, and likely argue about it later.
I`m fairly sure just about anyone will know when the situation means they have to help,as opposed to a situation where help is optional though it would come as a great comfort to the boat in difficulty.

 

[markpierce]

My boat is not set up for towing a boat, particularly because there are no cleats/secure-fastenings on the stern. All cleats are on port and starboard sides of the boat.

 

[Tom.B]

Lou, I would have reservations about the effectiveness of a doc signed by a person on a boat being washed towards rocks. They would likely sign anything, and likely argue about it later.

That is pretty much TowBoat and SeaTow’s business model right there.

 

[psneeld]

Doesnt matter if anything is signed or not when it comes to liability, only the salvage end and even that is debatable in court.

There's basically a "hold harmless" clause on every membership tow agreement too, even for the most simple assists.

I think I got maybe 1 percent signed before the tow.... the bosses didn't like it but knew in the long run in NJ they were going to court or paying if I screwed up anyway.

 

[CanadianBoater]

Just remember that old saying as you help others. 'No good deed goes unpunished '.

 

[Lou_tribal]

What I find the most deceptive and unfortunate nowadays is that notions like liability, risk etc seem to prevail over respect, help, courage and similar more "noble" values.
Don't misunderstand me, I understand the reason behind and I know things are what they are, but that should not be like that.

L

 

[Ex Sailor]

I towed a disabled 38' sailboat a few years ago for 5 1/2 hrs. Even though it was flat calm, we went through a lot of fuel. We brought him to a slip in a marina and proceeded to the fuel dock, the guy did not even have the class to offer to p/u " some " of the fuel or even a burger. I probably would have declined because that's how I am wired but it would have been nice to see some gesture ..... I'm done with deadbeats !! unless a boat was on fire ... I would not even stop or ask .... f

 

[Lou_tribal]

I towed a disabled 38' sailboat a few years ago for 5 1/2 hrs. Even though it was flat calm, we went through a lot of fuel. We brought him to a slip in a marina and proceeded to the fuel dock, the guy did not even have the class to offer to p/u " some " of the fuel or even a burger. I probably would have declined because that's how I am wired but it would have been nice to see some gesture ..... I'm done with deadbeats !! unless a boat was on fire ... I would not even stop or ask .... f

And what about if you are the one in distress and the boat passing by is thinking the same? Would you blame them not to provide assistance because you are not on fire? or would you say that's fine we are not on fire we will wait ?
I agree the guy you towed could have been nicer. When I did the same the guy said thank you and it was enough for me. I see that as a give and take, maybe next time I will be in distress and that same guy will help me.

As a reminder about obligation of assistance at sea:

"Every qualified person who is the master of a*vessel*in any waters, on receiving a signal from any source that a person, a*vessel*or an aircraft is in distress, shall proceed with all speed to render assistance and shall, if possible, inform the persons in distress or the sender of the signal.

"The master of a*vessel*in Canadian waters and every qualified person who is the master of a*vessel*in any waters shall render assistance to every person who is found at sea and in danger of being lost."*

L

 

[psneeld]

A disabled vessel is not "in distress"......unless.....unless a few things align themselves.

Its not about nobility, or courage or liability or a lot of things,... they can be argued in either way depending on the situation.

I really think most here if boating in remote areas where being disabled can quickly lead to disaster would spring into action..... but in many areas where a lot of posters are using as reference, there are plenty of options for the "disabled boat" other than relying on good samaritans.

The obligation to render assistance has been clearly ironed out by maritime law through the years and all it boils down to is saving life, not property. That why salvage is also clearly addressed within maritime law.

 

[Tom.B]

I towed a disabled 38' sailboat a few years ago for 5 1/2 hrs. Even though it was flat calm, we went through a lot of fuel. We brought him to a slip in a marina and proceeded to the fuel dock, the guy did not even have the class to offer to p/u " some " of the fuel or even a burger. I probably would have declined because that's how I am wired but it would have been nice to see some gesture ..... I'm done with deadbeats !! unless a boat was on fire ... I would not even stop or ask .... f

It isn’t against the law to have ASKED for a little bit of help with the fuel money. ;-) Ya’ know, people with broken boats have a lot on their minds. Perhaps it just slipped out of his. Be careful judging people like this. It’s part of why the country is so polarized now. Still, I wasn’t there, so don’t let my giant assumptions fool you.

 

[Tom.B]

What I find the most deceptive and unfortunate nowadays is that notions like liability, risk etc seem to prevail over respect, help, courage and similar more "noble" values.
Don't misunderstand me, I understand the reason behind and I know things are what they are, but that should not be like that.

L

Abso-freakin’-lutely!

 

[psneeld]

It IS against the law to take money for towing without s towing endorsement on a USCG license.

Not for helping with a trips expenses....

https://www.boatus.com/PressRoom/release.asp?id=1014

"According to Boat Owners Association of The United States, once money changes hands for a routine tow, a Good Sam is opened up to a world of liability they may not want in their lap. Accepting money also requires a mariner’s credential – such as a Captain’s license – and would require commercial registration of the towing vessel."

 

[Islanddreamer]

psneeld is spot on- and no USCG endorsement without a captain’s license. If anything of value changes hands with the captain or anyone else having interest in the vessel in question, a charter has been established.

Were it me, I would stand by and assist the souls on the other vessel with warmth, water, and the safety of my vessel.

If one does decide to tow, you need a method to cut your tow loose if it becomes a liability to your vessel regardless of the protest of it’s owner or passengers.

mike

 

[psneeld]

psneeld is spot on- and no USCG endorsement without a captain’s license. If anything of value changes hands with the captain or anyone else having interest in the vessel in question, a charter has been established.

Were it me, I would stand by and assist the souls on the other vessel with warmth, water, and the safety of my vessel.

If one does decide to tow, you need a method to cut your tow loose if it becomes a liability to your vessel regardless of the protest of it’s owner or passengers.

mike

No, on a boating outing, money exchange and trip sharing can take place, just not if it is necessary for the voyage to take place.

But towing and taking money is different.

Plus, lonce you take a vessel in tow, you are now liable for it as well as your own crew and vessel. To the point where good Sam law will protect you. Read the link provided.

 

[BandB]

I look at it much like the USCG does. I will do whatever I can or is necessary to help a boat in distress or danger. I will tow a boat far enough to keep it off the rocks. I will rescue passengers from a boat. I will also assist in reaching a tow company and standby until assistance arrives.

I will not substitute for a tow company. That means on the ICW or near the East Coast, I'm not going to tow. Plenty of professionals to do it. If unable to find a tow company such as some areas of Alaska, then I would tow as long as I felt I could do so safely.

In the last six years, we've checked on boats that appeared stranded to make sure they had help on the way if they felt a need, we've responded to calls of a boat soft grounded and offered to call a tow company for them but refused to tow them ourselves, and we've towed one small fishing boat in Petersburg, Alaska when we were out in our RIB. It was a father and his two young sons. It was in very calm water.

We also ran across a stranded Mainship with an older couple and their grandson in the North Channel off Lake Huron. They had safely anchored while trying to figure things out on a recently purchased boat. We had two people go aboard and they quickly figured out the issue was crazy wiring resulting in dead batteries. We got them going, two stayed with them on their boat and we monitored until we and they reached Sault Ste. Marie. Then we helped them get service and ultimately became friends and even visited their home in Sandusky on our way back through.

We have been cursed because we refused to tow a couple of times. Once was someone wanting a tow back from Bimini to the US and once was on the ICW. Both had no tow membership and simply didn't want to pay for a tow. The one on the ICW appeared to all be intoxicated. They cursed us over channel 16 for not assisting which got the ire of the CG. We contacted FWC while standing near and they quickly went and provided assistance, towing them the short distance to a marina and hauling three of the six aboard off in cuffs. Moral of that story is "Don't make a spectacle of yourself when you have outstanding warrants."

 

[Islanddreamer]

Or the operators that have a towing subscription and won’t call because they risk a BUI.

 

[psneeld]

I have towed plenty of drunks, are you suggesting assistance towers automatically turn boaters in to the authorities?

Even though I have no clue when they became drunk?

 

[wkearney99]

I have towed plenty of drunks, are you suggesting assistance towers automatically turn boaters in to the authorities?

Even though I have no clue when they became drunk?

If you take someone that's observably drunk/impaired in a certain situation and make it possible for them to get into a different situation you'd very likely expose yourself to liability.

As in, you pull a drunk boater out of the mud or off a sandbar. They then proceed to cause damage or harm others, a feat they wouldn't have been able to accomplish had you not gotten them loose.

Oh, I'm with the sane people out there that wouldn't begin to think there's any chance of a good samaritan deed like this turning into a bigger disaster.
Let alone being held culpable as part of it.

But make no mistake, in the event of something unfolding like that you'd be foolish to bet against an injured party's lawyer looking to find as many defendants as possible should lawsuits develop. For this I'm glad to maintain additional umbrella policy coverage.

I don't want to rain on anyone's fun, but if I were in a situation involving rendering aid to someone that clearly showed signs of being unable to lawfully operate the vessel and they insisted on doing so after my assistance I'd absolutely reach out to the authorities for help. I'd like to think clearer heads would prevail and they'd accept the suggestion of it being a better idea to "anchor over there and sleep it off."

But then I generally prefer to avoid boating in situations where I'm ever going to encounter that sort of nonsense, so it's really not a factor for me. What's the saying about God favoring drunks and idiots? I'd rather not get in-between that.

 

[High Wire]

Or the operators that have a towing subscription and won’t call because they risk a BUI.

Cheapskates want the free tows without membership, plain and simple. That was one thing I hated about being in the USCGAux back before SeaTow and Boat/US. People would spend a half hour at the ramp trying to get their engine going and when it did fire, that was good enough to go out in Delaware Bay. We would have to go drag them back for free. It was expected.

Bimini to the US free. LOL!!!
I towed a few drunk people too. They say the wildest things. Alcohol was involved with most of my night assists. Avoiding BUI/BWI never came up.

 

[wkearney99]

Cheapskates want the free tows without membership, plain and simple. That was one thing I hated about being in the USCGAux back before SeaTow and Boat/US. People would spend a half hour at the ramp trying to get their engine going and when it did fire, that was good enough to go out in Delaware Bay. We would have to go drag them back for free. It was expected.

I can only imagine the stories you could tell about that.

Having never owned a boat that needed launching at a ramp I can say I'm grateful. The shenanigans... ugh. Upside is it makes for a great way to waste time on youtube now...

 

[BandB]

Bimini to the US free. LOL!!!

Actually the Bimini group said they'd be glad to pay for our fuel. They'd been quoted a fee of around $2200 but told they'd have to wait until Tuesday for that rate (this was on Sunday).

 

[High Wire]

The double edge sword was you knew if you didn't go get them, you or the CG regulars would be out there searching the whole bay when the overdue call came in. Much easier to find them early.

 

[psneeld]

If you take someone that's observably drunk/impaired in a certain situation and make it possible for them to get into a different situation you'd very likely expose yourself to liability.

As in, you pull a drunk boater out of the mud or off a sandbar. They then proceed to cause damage or harm others, a feat they wouldn't have been able to accomplish had you not gotten them loose.

Oh, I'm with the sane people out there that wouldn't begin to think there's any chance of a good samaritan deed like this turning into a bigger disaster.
Let alone being held culpable as part of it.

But make no mistake, in the event of something unfolding like that you'd be foolish to bet against an injured party's lawyer looking to find as many defendants as possible should lawsuits develop. For this I'm glad to maintain additional umbrella policy coverage.

I don't want to rain on anyone's fun, but if I were in a situation involving rendering aid to someone that clearly showed signs of being unable to lawfully operate the vessel and they insisted on doing so after my assistance I'd absolutely reach out to the authorities for help. I'd like to think clearer heads would prevail and they'd accept the suggestion of it being a better idea to "anchor over there and sleep it off."

But then I generally prefer to avoid boating in situations where I'm ever going to encounter that sort of nonsense, so it's really not a factor for me. What's the saying about God favoring drunks and idiots? I'd rather not get in-between that.

IF...and it's a big IF, someone would have to prove I knew the person I assisted was legally intoxicated.

 

[wkearney99]

IF...and it's a big IF, someone would have to prove I knew the person I assisted was legally intoxicated.

Oh, no doubt, but the process of proving that you didn't would likely prove nearly as expensive as if you had known. If it rose to the level of damage/injury/death sufficient to warrant a lawsuit developing, of course.

I'm not saying that's right, just that treating it as a simple matter of lending someone a hand might not be so simple if intoxication is involved. It's one of those bets that never looks smart in hindsight when things went wrong.

 

[jimisbell]

I'm not saying that's right, just that treating it as a simple matter of lending someone a hand might not be so simple if intoxication is involved. It's one of those bets that never looks smart in hindsight when things went wrong.

Well, its simple. If I am intoxicated then it is very unlikely I will be offering assistance...................solves that situation....

 

[rslifkin]

Somewhat old thread to bring back, but I ended up towing a boat in this past weekend. Me providing the tow certainly wasn't a necessity, but I decided it was likely the most pleasant option for all involved.

Single engine 25 footer blew out a spark plug and called for assistance. I was just getting into the channel, coming back in for the evening. About 6 PM, so around 1 hour of remaining daylight.

Another boat responded, indicated they were heading that direction anyway and offered a tow, but they were 30 - 40 minutes away. Canadian Coast Guard responded, but I'm sure quickly figured out they weren't of much use. Local TowBoatUS guy didn't respond, which meant to me that he was likely home for the day, so a call to dispatch, etc. would have taken some time to get them out there. Local Coast Guard and cops both didn't respond (and the cops were seen about that time blasting off in a different direction for something).

I figured it would be an easier situation for anyone (professional or otherwise) to deal with in daylight, so I responded, turned around and headed over there. I was only about 5 minutes away at 18 kts anyway. Bridled them up behind using both of my stern cleats (well backed with nice glassed-in backing plates) and their 2 bow cleats (of unknown strength). Water was dead calm other than a few boat wakes, so easy towing conditions and easy to keep the strain on the rig down.

Towed them the 1.5 miles back to the river doing just under 5 kts, then brought them on the hip and idled the last bit up the river to the boat ramp at my home marina (they'd confirmed they had a trailer for the boat). Placed them nicely on the face dock right next to the ramp (much to their amazement), put my boat back in its slip and gave one of them a ride 3 minutes down the road to their home marina to get their trailer (their marina didn't have a nice, easy dock to put them on where they could walk the boat onto the trailer).

Led to a very happy family and both boats were tied up before sunset.

 

[dhays]

Nicely done.

 

[rsn48]

Two weeks ago, I was on my buddies Back Cove 33 helping him return his boat from Nanaimo to Comox when I heard a distress call from an American Cruiser, roughly off of and North of Nanaimo. The boat had hit a log and was taking on water. At first it wasn't clear whether the boat was sinking or not but eventually over several calls it was determined the bilge pumps were "just" keeping up.

The Coast Guard had trouble locating him for a while. The information sent by the boat owners wife (he was down in the bilge area tending to the problem) wasn't optimal, but not truly bad either. This is one of those circumstance where an AIS broadcasting system pays off. Now that I think about it, no DSC call went out either.

We did alter course but visually couldn't locate them. Eventually a police boat out of Nanaimo responded and the civilian rescue boat also responded. I believe another pleasure cruiser was standing by to assist should the worst have happened. I did hear the Coast Guard put out a call to C Tow.

Being the cynical A..H... I am, I couldn't help but want to ask the guy "was the money you saved by not having AIS or DSC really worth it?" He was lucky he was so close to emergency response resources.