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Old 07-29-2015, 05:47 PM   #1
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

Well I thought I had snagged a crab trap line or something, but the diver said nothing was on the shaft.

Getting towed into the Shell Morgan Fuel dock.

And ideas? Transmission is stuck in gear. It got stuck in a lock and I was able to bang on the shift lever to get out if the lock, but that's not working this time.

It's a Yanmar KM4A2 transmission.

Any ideas what it could be? Any repair places around here in Intracoastal City?
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:04 PM   #2
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You've probably done this already, but just checking:

Tranny fluid qty and smell? Does it smell burnt?

Linkage connected at both ends of the cable?

Does the lever at the tranny move when moving the helm shifter? (looking for broken cable)

Has there been indications of difficult shifting or unusual noises recently?
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:10 PM   #3
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
You've probably done this already, but just checking:

Tranny fluid qty and smell? Does it smell burnt?

Linkage connected at both ends of the cable?

Does the lever at the tranny move when moving the helm shifter? (looking for broken cable)

Has there been indications of difficult shifting or unusual noises recently?

Fluid clean. No smell.

Linkage connected.

Had difficulty yesterday. When I out it in gear it died once. Today in lock it died and jammed in heat but I was able to manually force trans shift lever and get back in neutral.

I don't know why but I think shaft is hung up. Had shaft work done recently.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:19 PM   #4
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

....
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:47 PM   #5
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If you can get the transmission in neutral can you turn the shaft by hand from the engine room? Or maybe with a long screwdriver through the coupling aft of the trans. Maybe disconnect the cable at the trans end try moving it at the helm to see if the cable is binding somewhere. Bad luck! let us know what you find
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:52 PM   #6
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Marine transmissions are made to fail in forward gear as a fail safe. So the problem could be anything.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:14 PM   #7
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Can you move the shift lever at the transmission after disconnecting the cable?
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:16 PM   #8
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Fail in forward? Not sure I have ever heard that one.

Have heard of them stuck in both and neutral....so maybe just some trannys?
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:28 PM   #9
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As Bob said, disconnect the cable right at the transmission, then with someone else to hit the kill switch if needed (unless it's easily within reach down in the ER,) Shift it from N to F to N then R then back to N. If they all shift freely, then it's not the transmission but the cable. If it won't shift right from the lever, then it does sound like something internal in the Tranny. Clean off the tranny label. Look on ebay to find another one. Then you have the option of getting an ebay one rebuilt, (or checked out) or remove yours and have it rebuilt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post

I don't know why but I think shaft is hung up. Had shaft work done recently.
How would a shaft hang up? Maybe the stuffing box is too tight. But I would think that would rip the rubber coupling off the stuffing box/shaft log before it stalled an engine.


Funny thing, you say it stalled out once when going into gear? But not all the time??
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:05 PM   #10
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Made it to the dock. Checking some things out.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:36 PM   #11
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

Well it's not the shaft. Pulled it back and it spins free.

Not the linkage. It's free.

So why, oh why, is my poor little transmission stuck in gear?

😡
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy208 View Post
As Bob said, disconnect the cable right at the transmission, then with someone else to hit the kill switch if needed (unless it's easily within reach down in the ER,) Shift it from N to F to N then R then back to N. If they all shift freely, then it's not the transmission but the cable. If it won't shift right from the lever, then it does sound like something internal in the Tranny. Clean off the tranny label. Look on ebay to find another one. Then you have the option of getting an ebay one rebuilt, (or checked out) or remove yours and have it rebuilt.

How would a shaft hang up? Maybe the stuffing box is too tight. But I would think that would rip the rubber coupling off the stuffing box/shaft log before it stalled an engine.


Funny thing, you say it stalled out once when going into gear? But not all the time??

Right. Not all the time. Only did it a couple of times.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:52 PM   #13
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The guys at Shell Morgan should know someone who can take a look
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:52 PM   #14
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Change the fluid, and make sure the cooling water is flowing into the oil cooler (assuming you have one.) Beyond that, I would imagine a trip to a tranny guy would be in order. Or a good marine mechanic. Hey, can you SEE the post the lever is attached to? Make sure that when you are pushing the lever arm to FNR the rod that goes INTO the tranny is following. Do you have a two helm station boat? If so, make sure the 'other' station that is not being used has the throttle and shift levers free to move fully. I had a solar panel on the FB that had shifted while at anchor. When I went to bring the boat in from the mooring to the dock to pick up the landlubbers (oops, I mean my guests) the shift wouldn't travel fully fwd. It didn't dawn on me why until I went up top to remove the canvas to drive from the FB that the lever was impinged in movement.

But, that still doesn't explain the 'falling in gear, or stalling part......... Hmmmm. Making me think.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:13 PM   #15
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As cappy suggests make sure the trans lever is not "spinning" on the rod that goes into the trans. If so it could be a sheared key or loose splines. Or the shifting fork inside may be loose.
Good luck
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:41 PM   #16
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

Linkage on trans was hung up. Shaft free. Took shifter linkage apart so I could trick it to think it was in neutral and bumped starter. That freed up trans linkage. Put it back together. Works for now.

The thing I don't get is why was it dying at times when shifting into forward? Like a drag on the engine. Caused RPM to fall some other times. Also why was there some vibration that I didn't have before? That's why I thought I had crap on the prop shaft.

The shaft turned when I took it apart from the trans but not very easily. How easy should it be to spin? Now I'm wondering if the diver missed something. The water was like mud.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:52 PM   #17
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Muddy water he dove into.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy208 View Post
Change the fluid, and make sure the cooling water is flowing into the oil cooler (assuming you have one.) Beyond that, I would imagine a trip to a tranny guy would be in order. Or a good marine mechanic. Hey, can you SEE the post the lever is attached to? Make sure that when you are pushing the lever arm to FNR the rod that goes INTO the tranny is following. Do you have a two helm station boat? If so, make sure the 'other' station that is not being used has the throttle and shift levers free to move fully. I had a solar panel on the FB that had shifted while at anchor. When I went to bring the boat in from the mooring to the dock to pick up the landlubbers (oops, I mean my guests) the shift wouldn't travel fully fwd. It didn't dawn on me why until I went up top to remove the canvas to drive from the FB that the lever was impinged in movement.

But, that still doesn't explain the 'falling in gear, or stalling part......... Hmmmm. Making me think.

I do see two hoses going to the trans. How do I make sure it has water circulating? Remove a hose?

One station controls.

Worried about this trans now.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:03 PM   #19
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On our boat those hoses send and return the transmission oil to the oil cooler which has water circulating through it.
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:29 PM   #20
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Cardude,

The Kanzaki KM4A2 has a mechanical cone clutch. If you are able to get the transmission into neutral using the shift lever, the output shaft should spin freely and smoothly with no discernible end play.

Cone clutches can be difficult to disengage if the engine idle rpm is too high, or if there is any significant resistance in the drive line that keeps the cone engaged. The higher the resistance, the tighter the lock up.

I have included a diagram of the shift lever and its alignment/adjustment. Note that in neutral, the lever is exactly horizontal (in line with the crankshaft). Sometimes there is a reference mark on the transmission housing. Also, be careful with the washers under the end bolt. They are actually calibrated spacers that adjust the depth of the shift fork in the cone clutch.

If, as you state, the propeller shaft is hard to turn, it could definitely make the transmission hard or impossible to shift into neutral with the engine running. It could also stall the engine when shifting into gear at idle.

With the transmission in neutral, you should be able to rotate the propeller shaft by hand. Sometimes two hands, but not much more than that. If you need a wrench or lever to turn it, there is something wrong that will require correction. As you mentioned, maybe the diver missed something. With the transmission in neutral he should have been able to easily rotate the prop in both directions. Definitely check the stuffing box adjustment.

If you do need help with the transmission, you can contact the Yanmar Distributor for the Gulf Coast:

Laborde Products, Inc.
74257 Hwy 25
Covington, LA 70435
Toll Free: 1-800-628-9882
Manufacturers Offered: Diesel America, FPT - Industrial, Hatz, Mitsubishi - Industrial, Mitsubishi - Marine, Mitsubishi - Small Bore, SteyrMotors, Yanmar - Industrial, Yanmar - Marine

They advertise certified technicians on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Hope some of this info helps. Best of luck
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