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Old 07-30-2015, 07:24 AM   #21
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

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Cardude,

The Kanzaki KM4A2 has a mechanical cone clutch. If you are able to get the transmission into neutral using the shift lever, the output shaft should spin freely and smoothly with no discernible end play.

Cone clutches can be difficult to disengage if the engine idle rpm is too high, or if there is any significant resistance in the drive line that keeps the cone engaged. The higher the resistance, the tighter the lock up.

I have included a diagram of the shift lever and its alignment/adjustment. Note that in neutral, the lever is exactly horizontal (in line with the crankshaft). Sometimes there is a reference mark on the transmission housing. Also, be careful with the washers under the end bolt. They are actually calibrated spacers that adjust the depth of the shift fork in the cone clutch.

If, as you state, the propeller shaft is hard to turn, it could definitely make the transmission hard or impossible to shift into neutral with the engine running. It could also stall the engine when shifting into gear at idle.

With the transmission in neutral, you should be able to rotate the propeller shaft by hand. Sometimes two hands, but not much more than that. If you need a wrench or lever to turn it, there is something wrong that will require correction. As you mentioned, maybe the diver missed something. With the transmission in neutral he should have been able to easily rotate the prop in both directions. Definitely check the stuffing box adjustment.

If you do need help with the transmission, you can contact the Yanmar Distributor for the Gulf Coast:

Laborde Products, Inc.
74257 Hwy 25
Covington, LA 70435
Toll Free: 1-800-628-9882
Manufacturers Offered: Diesel America, FPT - Industrial, Hatz, Mitsubishi - Industrial, Mitsubishi - Marine, Mitsubishi - Small Bore, SteyrMotors, Yanmar - Industrial, Yanmar - Marine

They advertise certified technicians on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Hope some of this info helps. Best of luck

Larry,

I'm a little confused. When I took the shaft off the transmission I could turn it using both hands.

After installing the shaft (last night) and reading your message this AM, I tried with the transmission in neutral and the shaft won't budge.

I was going to run it this morning like it is but now I don't know. Seems like the transmission itself is putting a bind on the shaft somehow, even when in neutral?

I put a call into that place you found, but they are a parts distributor. They directed me to some Yanmar repair places. Waiting on them to open.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
Larry,

I'm a little confused. When I took the shaft off the transmission I could turn it using both hands.

After installing the shaft (last night) and reading your message this AM, I tried with the transmission in neutral and the shaft won't budge.

I was going to run it this morning like it is but now I don't know. Seems like the transmission itself is putting a bind on the shaft somehow, even when in neutral?

I put a call into that place you found, but they are a parts distributor. They directed me to some Yanmar repair places. Waiting on them to open.
Cardude,

Please clarify the following for me so that I understand completely:

"I'm a little confused. When I took the shaft off the transmission I could turn it using both hands."

I assume you disconnected the propeller shaft from the transmission output shaft coupling.

Which shaft could you "turn using both hands", the propeller shaft or the transmission output shaft on the back of the transmission?

Can you turn the transmission output shaft coupling by hand? In neutral, it should spin easily with little or no resistance and be very smooth.

"After installing the shaft (last night) and reading your message this AM, I tried with the transmission in neutral and the shaft won't budge."

From this, I take it you re-attached the propeller shaft to the transmission output shaft coupling and now you cannot turn the propeller shaft. Presumably, the transmission is still frozen. Is that the case?

"I was going to run it this morning like it is but now I don't know. Seems like the transmission itself is putting a bind on the shaft somehow, even when in neutral?"

If the shift lever on the side of the transmission is really in neutral, and you still can't turn the transmission output shaft coupling when it is disconnected from the propeller shaft, there is some internal fault or failure. Time for service or repair by someone familiar with that transmission, preferably a Yanmar dealer or repair facility. If the bearings or gears fail, in a worst case, they can even crack the aluminum transmission housing which would mean a whole new transmission.

A final thought. Do the transmission output shaft coupling and the propeller shaft couplings align properly? If they are too far out of alignment, I suppose it is possible that the entire engine/transmission/propeller shaft/stuffing box and cutless bearing assembly could be in enough of a bind that you could no longer turn the propeller shaft. This could likely be caused by a loose or broken engine mount.

If that is the case, any good yard should be able to correct it and get you on your way.


Best of luck on this one.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:21 PM   #23
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Yes the tans output shaft would not turn in neutral.

I decided to suck the oil out of the trans. Where I thought I had clean oil I got this out instead.

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I don't know why the oil looked clean on the little dipstick, but it did.

So I refilled with new 30wt and tested it. Ran it in forward tied to the dock. Put in neutral. Shaft spun! Tried it in reverse. Back in neutral. Shaft spins by hand.

Ran it like that at the dock then sucked oil out again and refilled. Seems ok now.

Underway now for two hours. Trans temp 155. Coolant hoses seem to be working at 135deg.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:25 PM   #24
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Larry, excellent posts. The fact that Bill is not posting suggests he has no service. My last communication with him is the prop shaft was turning freely but the clutch side not. He apparently flushed the tyranny about 4 times, getting a lot of trash initially. This seemed to free it up. All fluids were changed 200 hrs ago. He was through the lock and on his way around 9 this morning so is currently in the middle of nowhere. I am sure he will post back as soon as he has service.

He's back! Lol
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:42 PM   #25
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And now my autopilot is hunting around like a drunken sailor. I swear. If it's not one thing....

When I was anchored the barges pushed me into the mud once and the rudder bumped lightly. Is that a clue?
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:49 PM   #26
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If it's fine when you hand steer then it's not external damage IMO.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:50 PM   #27
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Could be the compass.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:56 PM   #28
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I did a bad cal on my autopilot. It worked great on almost all headings. Then one time I needed to go I think 300deg, it cycled like nuts. Back to 270, it was great. Redid cal and it was fine at 300.

So are you running a heading that you have not tried before?
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:08 PM   #29
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I don't think I'm running a weird heading. Seems like about the same heading I've been running. That's why I can't figure out why it's veering from side to side so bad now when before it was holding perfectly
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:14 PM   #30
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CD.... What was cause of original "shaft needed repair"???
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
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And now my autopilot is hunting around like a drunken sailor. I swear. If it's not one thing....

When I was anchored the barges pushed me into the mud once and the rudder bumped lightly. Is that a clue?
Since you were just working on the transmission, make sure you didn't inadvertently leave a toolbox or object near the compass. I once did that and it took me a week to find a wrench I left a few inches from the compass.

If the steering feels good and the boat steers well manually, it's probably not the rudder. If when you hit the mud, the rudder did swing violently, maybe the rudder position sensor could have become disconnected or something like that. The troubleshooting section in your owner's manual will probably get you to the right answer. Sometimes, re-running the dockside and underway calibration and self-testing will reset the unit or reveal the problem.
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:52 PM   #32
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I thought I had a stuffing box leaking like crazy. Pulled in to the marina I was going to store the boat at for a fee weeks and they said the shaft tube was leaking.

I never saw the repair happen since I was back in Texas. Is it possible they misaligned things?
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Since you were just working on the transmission, make sure you didn't inadvertently leave a toolbox or object near the compass. I once did that and it took me a week to find a wrench I left a few inches from the compass.

If the steering feels good and the boat steers well manually, it's probably not the rudder. If when you hit the mud, the rudder did swing violently, maybe the rudder position sensor could have become disconnected or something like that. The troubleshooting section in your owner's manual will probably get you to the right answer. Sometimes, re-running the dockside and underway calibration and self-testing will reset the unit or reveal the problem.

Ok. Thanks. I'll try when at anchor. Too hard in this narrow canal with all these barges to calibrate anything.
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:55 PM   #34
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A few years ago my autopilot started doing something similar I called raymarine they helped me troubleshoot over the phone turned out the rudder feed back sender, mounted near the steering cylinder, was bad. It was an easy and not too expensive a replacement part fix.
At least you'll be able to proceed OK without the AP.
Good luck!
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:04 PM   #35
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Help needed: Transmission problems?

My autopilot is fed heading by a fluxgate compass. Whenever I pass within 10' of anything steel (bridge, barge, ferry). Anything the heading sensor goes wild. Swings about 20 degrees each way.

Regarding the shaft, seems coincidental. The condition of the gear oil is more suspect. Do you have a manual? Look for a clean out port, a screen or a filter on the tranny. If yours has a clean out plug, they often have a built in magnet. Make sure to wipe that off and inspect for metal shavings, chips.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
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My autopilot is fed heading by a fluxgate compass. Whenever I pass within 10' of anything steel (bridge, barge, ferry). Anything the heading sensor goes wild. Swings about 20 degrees each way.

Regarding the shaft, seems coincidental. The condition of the gear oil is more suspect. Do you have a manual? Look for a clean out port, a screen or a filter on the tranny. If yours has a clean out plug, they often have a built in magnet. Make sure to wipe that off and inspect for metal shavings, chips.

Ok. Will check out tranny again at anchor.
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Old 08-01-2015, 06:42 AM   #37
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I do not know if your tranny requires it ,

but some require the shaft be able to move back or fwd a 1/2 inch to engage in gear.

You might ask the tranny folks and disconnect the shaft to see if you have the shaft motion space if its required.
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:00 AM   #38
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The prop shaft is able to move forward and aft through the stuffing box.

Is that what you mean?
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
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The prop shaft is able to move forward and aft through the stuffing box.

Is that what you mean?

Not quite, but if it moves through stuffing box, it also moves in transmission. Reading your posts, you mention going aground. It is possible that when you got shoved into the mud that the prop got shoved into the mud too. This may have strained, stressed the thrust bearings /washers in the tranny. Does your manual state how much end play the tranny output shaft should have? Measure the forward and aft movement you can push/pull the shaft. What's the total distance? Once you get that number, call a mechanic who knows marine transmissions. Or call the tranny company.
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Old 08-01-2015, 08:41 AM   #40
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The prop is way up from the bottom of the keel. No way it got impacted by the mud.
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