Help Estimating Costs for Survey Corrections

[sunchaser]

Only two people on this thread have seen the vessel. They both said walk. A few have said 195F is just fine. What is not said - is that a stable temperature or was it climbing. Anyone here have same model JDs? What do they run?

So many questions ---

 

[North Baltic sea]

Buyers will be less, than the sellers!!!


I think it the fault of the list was too much. The market has a lot of boats, may take time to find the gem that is loved and it is in good condition and ready to give up for a good price.


If you paid to surveys, so I think it fair to be more of you...


I think the surveys list will tell you that he is not taken care of and this should be reflected in a significant reduction in the price vs the same boat type, age etc, ...

 

[BandB]

So many questions ---

That's the gist of where he's left at this point by the survey and just the general situations. Questions to which the answers could be widely variable. If the boat had been sitting as long as it appears without use, it probably shouldn't have even been run without being checked further and some things addressed. At any rate he doesn't know whether the engines are running hot or not, can achieve WOT or not, are in reasonably good shape or not. Same with the generator. He was left with more questions than answers.

Now, has the OP fallen in love with this specific boat and is he determined now to buy it regardless? I don't know. I know we're not talking about a $50k boat, but a $500k boat which I would hold to different standards, although the purchaser of the $500k boat might be better prepared to deal with unexpected costs.

He still needs an engine survey in spite of what he's saying about the greatness of the surveyor. At least he hasn't relayed to us what one would expect from an engine survey.

Also, he mentions surveyor's verbal comment. Is he working off verbal or the written survey?

At this point it's all a big gamble. It's either back up and get some things fixed and a good engine survey after those items required to have one are fixed, pretty much back to square one or it's make an offer based on worse case, buy boat as is, and take it to a good boatyard. If $500k is a fair price in good condition (I don't know if it is or not), then with all the unknowns, if I was going to gamble it would probably be at $400k, but then I'm not a gambler. A true gambler might go $450k. I personally don't like the unknown.

 

[cafesport]

I think I know the boat you are looking at. Might give Snead island boat works a call and get them to give you some quotes. If your surveyor doesn't think she'll make the trip you might want to contact Capt Bill, I'm sure he'd be able to offer considerable input and perhaps even help you move her. For the record I don't know Capt bill other than here on tf , Snead I've used since the 70's. They are expensive and I think they are worth it. Good luck with her.

 

[TDunn]

Well much of that list is trivial even the stuff in part 1 with the possible exception of the PSS shaft seal. Installing a new bellows can be costly depending on the available space. Without a comment about why/where the seal was leaking that can't be assessed. If the rudder has a stuffing box all that is needed to stop a leak is to tighten the stuffing box or in the worst case replace the packing. Neither is a big deal. Changing the elements in the racors and draining their bowls is something that you should be able to do under way. It is a totally trivial maintenance item to do at the dock. Of more concern is why there is sediment in the filter bowls, which your surveyor seems not to have mentioned.

As far as the numerous comments about rust/corrosion I would like to have seen pictures to determine if he was talking about some inconsequential surface staining or actual structural corrosion.

As far as the engine and generator operating temps are concerned you would need to know what the normal (i.e., spec.) operating temperatures are. My diesel runs at 193 which is right in the middle of the "normal" operating range according to the manual.

Frankly the vast majority of stuff on that list consists of things that an owner should be able to fix without help.

It sounds as if you actually want a new boat with full warranty. Perhaps that is what you should be looking at.

 

[danderer]

A $500K vessel should not have a laundry list like you described. Once into this size and price range pristine condition should be expected.

Well, that depends on the specific boat (which the OP has chosen not to share).

I'd expect a $500K Bayliner to be pristine. If I found a Fleming for $500K I'd expect something different. Both might or might not be reasonable deals depending on my needs/wants.

I've always felt the more info one can give when asking a question, the better the quality of the answers.

 

[seasalt007]

The broker just called and the seller is willing to fix the minor issues but not the shaft seal, engine or genset issues.

So, I am rejecting the boat.

Thanks for all the comments. You are a great bunch of guys and a girl...Donna.

Now I am going to continue my search for a boat that has been maintained like I would do it.

 

[CPseudonym]

Good choice. That'd be my cue to walk too.

 

[Donsan]

Doing a little sleuthing based on "better than new" in Florida, I found the boat on YW. The pics certainly don't look like maintenance has been deferred but then pics are supposed to show the boat in the best way possible. Actually, for a boat that size and brand quality, it looked like a bargain. Did the surveyor give you an indication of what comparable boats sold for? If you used a buyers broker, they might provide it from soldboats.com.

For the most part, I agree with the actions you are taking but think asking for the price reduction is preferable to having the seller fix it, specially, if the seller is an estate, a widow or someone with medical issues.

You reported you had at least one other boat you had surveyed so it must be hitting for $2K or more per shot every time you go through this drill so how many times do you want to do it? Maybe a little more negotiations is called for.

Oh, and this boat is certainly way above my pay grade!

 

[ksanders]

If it were me buying a cruising boat...

I would much rather buy a boat that was activly cruised than one with low hours.

The optimum seller would be folks that had used the heck out of the boat and were either moving up or retiring from boating due to age related issues.

 

[Todd R]

Visuals are always nice....

2007 Ocean Alexander 50 Classico Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

[BruceK]

Why would the generator issue have to be fixed before a 150 mile delivery? ...

Reading the advert, it provides power for the back up propulsion system. The main engine has issues, so...
The defects the seller won`t fix are the major issues, you`ll likely only discover what needs doing after starting work.
Beware "the strawberry punnet syndrome", deeper you go, worse it gets.

 

[BandB]

Reading the advert, it provides power for the back up propulsion system. The main engine has issues, so...
The defects the seller won`t fix are the major issues, you`ll likely only discover what needs doing after starting work.
Beware "the strawberry punnet syndrome", deeper you go, worse it gets.

A lot of things you just don't know about. If I was someone seriously interested in that boat I'd offer $400k, at most $425k, to take it as it is. You might fix everything for $20k, but it could be many times that. It will take $10k just to find out what more is needed.

 

[markpierce]

Boats with complex systems common to recreational trawlers, both new and used, need maintenance and repair because something is always failing/breaking, and then there is preventive maintenance. Maintenance is a continual issue.

Wonder what basis the seller has to describe his boat as "better than new." What upgrades does the boat have?

 

[BandB]

Boats with complex systems common to recreational trawlers, both new and used, need maintenance and repair because something is always failing/breaking, and then there is preventive maintenance. Maintenance is a continual issue.

Wonder what basis the seller has to describe his boat as "better than new." What upgrades does the boat have?

I don't care how much a boat has been used, just that it's been well maintained. If it's been sitting at the dock for sale for 2 years with no use, then a lot of things have suffered in that time. Metal rusts, but a boat depends on a lot of rubber and plastic. All that deteriorates. One clue of what hadn't been done with this boat was the Racors. If I had a boat for sale and there was a sea trial planned, I'd definitely get the basics checked out first and they didn't even go to that trouble. I know a Captain who does sea trials for selling owners and for brokers all the time and he'd never think of doing one without checking the boat out the day before.

 

[kev_rm]

That list is nothing compared to mine. :O

 

[danderer]

I would much rather buy a boat that was actively cruised than one with low hours.

That has been my experience with both boats and aircraft. Something that has been used and well maintained has invariably worked better than "low hours, like new.."

 

[timjet]

My WOT temp on my Cummins done reman at sea trial just after installation was and is 190 deg.

 

[TDunn]

If you look up the specific Deere engine in that boat based on the listing linked above, 195 is within the normal operating range. Yes it is at the high end, but it is normal.

 

[sunchaser]

The issue in this vessel's sea trial was not the absolute temperature, it was that the numbers kept climbing as the full load test was done. That is one of the purposes of a full load test, to see if temperatures stabilize or not. Not to run the boat to destruction. The on board mechanic/surveyor did his job and has the right credentials according to the knowledgeable buyer.

BTW, my engines cruise at 172 - 175F and have for eleven years since the vessel was new. Full load they will go to 180 and stay there. Oil temperature (coolant controlled separate HXer) under same conditions run about 15 - 20 degrees higher.

 

[SoWhat]

The broker just called and the seller is willing to fix the minor issues but not the shaft seal, engine or genset issues.
So, I am rejecting the boat.
Thanks for all the comments. You are a great bunch of guys and a girl...Donna.
Now I am going to continue my search for a boat that has been maintained like I would do it.

Maintenance seemed a little sketchy at best. Dirt in the Racors? Empty battery cells? cracked hoses? leaking oil cooler, leaking exhaust hose, this boat has not been maintained properly and was not ready for the market