Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-14-2016, 01:21 PM   #21
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,762
Going back to the original question: Since you're going to be in Norfolk for some time, you will need air conditioning. Adding the reverse cycle heat option costs very little and will cover most of the time in Norfolk and certainly be usable in the PNW some maybe most of the time. Then you can consider whether to add electric strip heat to the unit (some manufacturers offer both heat options together), supplement with electric plug in heaters, or add an alternative fuel heating system.

Ted
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 02:00 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
tadhana's Avatar
 
City: New England to Florida
Country: USA EAST
Vessel Name: Tadhana
Vessel Model: Helmsman 38 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 464
We lived aboard on the Chesapeake 5 winters. Then we found the door: now we get to FL in the winter. We found that the reverse cycle units worked just fine here on the Chesapeake except in the coldest of winter weather when the water temperature gets into the low 30s. You already have the AC unit so use the heat mode in the winter. Even in FL we used the heat mode a few days. One thing we did learn living aboard in cold weather is that a dehumidifier must be running almost constantly if the air temp outside is 50 or below. Mind you we are two people with a dog, washer dryer,propane cooking and we shower aboard the boat so we do generate some water vapor. When the water temperature gets into the upper 30's we switch to a couple of hardware store variety resistance heaters. They seem to be adequate. We would get iced in every winter, and we could always keep the cabin in the mid 70s. Some additional insulation and sealing the boat to eliminate air intrusion is essential. Only once were we unable to keep the cabin in the 70s. During our last winter on the Bay we had about 8 inches of ice around the boat the wind was honking, and the air temp stayed between 10 and 24 degrees for 8 days. The next winter we were in FL.
__________________

tadhana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 04:56 PM   #23
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 967
Surely this has been said already, but get both heating options if possible. Heat pumps are great until it gets too cold, then you need the heating element. It's more convenient to have them in the ac unit rather than rolling around on casters...
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 09:46 PM   #24
Member
 
City: gibsons
Country: canada
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
20 year liveaboard near Toronto ... Last 10 years with a Flagship Marine furnace, a/c. The air is reverse cycle and the heat side is straight electric furnace. Bullet proof ... much higher quality build than any other unit I have seen on a boat. I've never been cold in the winter but my neighbours with conventional reverse cycle units end up with little electric heaters all over their boats.


I like the sounds of that one. do you know if there is a Canadian dealer/installers?
micheln is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 09:58 PM   #25
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by micheln View Post
I like the sounds of that one. do you know if there is a Canadian dealer/installers?
I bought online direct from Flagship. Plug and play installation could not be more simple. Anyone with minimal skills can install. The work comes in location choice and running the ducting.... just about any general marine contractor can do that if you are not handy yourself.
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what I y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly. Mr.C
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 10:26 PM   #26
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
I don't see many reverse cycle systems here in the Salish Sea. Maybe I am just not looking hard enough? If you really are going to be refitting for these winters, I would consider looking at hydronic diesel heat. The diesel is something you already have on board and is relatively cheap. The hydronic heat is great for long term use and you don't have to worry about the electrical circuits
Many boats in the PNW have reverse cycle and hydronic heat. We do. One nice thing about hydronic is the passive heating down low in the hull from the pipe and hose runs. Our three zones of reverse cycle really heat things up quick when we first arrive then we back off to hydronic and/or space heaters only.

When cruising the hydronic system heats from an engine so no boiler required during these periods.

It does not get as cold in the PNW as the NE and Ontario where BP lives. So you can learn and test as you go. Ken Saunders should chime in, he has a forced air diesel furnace and swears by it, in Anchorage/Seward to boot.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 10:32 PM   #27
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,034
I had forced air diesel heat on my sailboats. It was great in that it heat up very quickly, which is nice for the weekender. I found that the forced air was not as even a heat as the hydronic that I have now. The hydronic does take a while to heat up but Once it does provides a great, even heat on the boat.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 11:09 PM   #28
Member
 
City: gibsons
Country: canada
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I bought online direct from Flagship. Plug and play installation could not be more simple. Anyone with minimal skills can install. The work comes in location choice and running the ducting.... just about any general marine contractor can do that if you are not handy yourself.
thanks. first boat so not competent yet. I have the ducking so it should be straight forward.
micheln is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 09:52 AM   #29
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I bought online direct from Flagship. Plug and play installation could not be more simple. ...........
So did I. Once you select the cooling BTUs and heating capacity, the only other choice is which way the bower outlet faces. The folks at Flagship will assist you with your selection.

Mine was a replacement so the ducts, water and power were already there.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2016, 08:37 PM   #30
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,557
Fred, if you ever run for president, that post #16, is going to come back and bite you!
__________________
Steve W.
http://mvgumbo.blogspot.com/
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 07:03 AM   #31
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,290
Slipmate has this real small charcoal heater pot belly cast iron stove thing, and it has a vent pipe runs out the boat.
He says it heats extremely well in winter.
It sits on ceramic tile on a shelf and might be 6 or 8 inches across and tall.
I had never seen such a thing before.

He does not have these as they look bigger.
http://www.shipmatestove.com/Results.cfm?category=6
http://www.marinestove.com/sardineinfo.htm
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 07:14 AM   #32
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Slipmate has this real small charcoal heater pot belly cast iron stove thing, and it has a vent pipe runs out the boat.
He says it heats extremely well in winter.
It sits on ceramic tile on a shelf and might be 6 or 8 inches across and tall.
I had never seen such a thing before.

He does not have these as they look bigger.
ShipMate Stove Company Inc. - your source for classic solid fuel boat stoves, heaters and sinks.
SARDINE STOVE INFO & SPECS.
I would be looking to move as far as possible from his boat.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 07:18 AM   #33
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I would be looking to move as far as possible from his boat.
boat is 5 slips down from me. He does not seem to worry about a fire. His looks like a miniature pot bellied stove. Has a little door and can burn bits of wood or charcoal briquettes.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 07:24 AM   #34
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Slipmate has this real small charcoal heater pot belly cast iron stove thing, and it has a vent pipe runs out the boat.
I think they are called ...
CO Producing Oxygen Depletion Systems.
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what I y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly. Mr.C
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 07:31 AM   #35
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
boat is 5 slips down from me. He does not seem to worry about a fire. His looks like a miniature pot bellied stove. Has a little door and can burn bits of wood or charcoal briquettes.
I don't doubt he doesn't seem to worry about a fire but if I was near his boat, I would be worried about a fire. Marina fires often hop from one boat to the next until they are all burning.

And of course. as someone else pointed out, a charcoal fire emits a lot of carbon monoxide. That might not be a concern for you but it indicates that your slip neighbor is pretty ignorant about these things.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 07:59 AM   #36
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I don't doubt he doesn't seem to worry about a fire but if I was near his boat, I would be worried about a fire. Marina fires often hop from one boat to the next until they are all burning.

And of course. as someone else pointed out, a charcoal fire emits a lot of carbon monoxide. That might not be a concern for you but it indicates that your slip neighbor is pretty ignorant about these things.
I talked with him about the co, etc... he just thinks it is not ever a problem. It is a risk, he does have a co alarm.
I asked him what happens when the wind blows, if it still works ok, and he says yes.

Marina fires are bad, I think his stove being solidly attached is pretty safe. The fire risk would be sparks when opening the door something falls out.

What is the main causes of fires, likely they are electrical? Of course not many have wood stoves in their boats.

To me the main risk would be getting burned bumping into a stove.
I have Cruisair heat pump and 2 electric heaters. One heater pulls 7 amps, the other 10 amps. the heat pump 12 amps. I have 2 30 amp plugs. But our marine offers free power so I just use one 30 amp plug. With 2 electric heaters on, heats ok the boat.

Heat pump works in 40* water, but water in 30's, it does not heat as good. It does heat a little with water in 30's.

My boat has so much glass area, cabin heats up a lot by solar radiation. In winter can 30's outside and 60 in the boat from sun. Makes for very hot summer days in the cabin. Like yesterday, I go to boat, air temp is low 70's, cabin inside 98* in bright sun as measured by a digital thermometer located under the front forward sloping windows..

And have large twin engines in under the sole. I could run the engines and lift a hatch and a lot of heat will come in, if I was desperate for heat, which I am not.

I actually prefer cooler air, I am very happy with upper 40's, as long as it is not too humid. That humid air can make it feel real cold.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 08:06 AM   #37
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,533
I had a solid fuel burning stove aboard my first liveaboard sailboat. The previous owner had it on there and had used it 5 years as a full time liveaboard, and me another 2.

It was wonderful on a chilly damp night....had the right smell (versus diesel) and set the atmosphere.

That was back before CO/smoke detectors were even common.

The sailboat next to me had a beautiful Dutch tile fireplace...it was the boat Walter Cronkite chartered out of FT Lauderdale in the day.

While boatpoker is correct that they can be hazardous....like all the other things we seem to dwell on done incorrectly in the boating world....they are just another wonderful thing that needs close risk management.

A fireplace or solid fuel burning stove can be great.... just use it as smartly as the next system on your boat that can cause a fire, explosion, sinking, asphyxiation, etc...etc...

Enough manufacturers think they are safe enough to accept the liability...they just expect you to risk manage so you can enjoy their product.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 08:06 AM   #38
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
I talked with him about the co, etc... he just thinks it is not ever a problem. It is a risk, he does have a co alarm.
I asked him what happens when the wind blows, if it still works ok, and he says yes.
He does know about oxygen depletion .... right ?
He does realize his insurance policy is worthless .... right ?
And his dock neighbors know that too ..... right ?
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what I y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly. Mr.C
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 08:18 AM   #39
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
He does know about oxygen depletion .... right ?
He does realize his insurance policy is worthless .... right ?
And his dock neighbors know that too ..... right ?
Boats are not that tightly sealed? His is an older boat, so is mine. I have sliding 10 sliding windows each window set has 2 sliding windows, except front cabin has one sliding window on each side and a sliding door and they are not well sealed. His boat is just like mine.
I have a 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon sedan cruiser, and his is a 1968 model. I like my layout much better than his layout.

I wonder about the insurance issue, likely either does not have any, or they don't know.
I do have insurance with Boat US.

The dock neighbors, anyone can see the small stove pipe, marina is not uptight yet about very much. The marina owner knows about it and has no problem with it.

Our marina does not require boats to be insured, that is likely unusual.
About a third of the boats here are owned by waterman, with Chesapeake Bay deadrise boats, and those guys are not well off.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 08:23 AM   #40
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post

Our marina does not require boats to be insured, that is likely unusual.
It is unusual and a little scary, at least to me.
__________________

__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what I y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly. Mr.C
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012