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Old 05-12-2015, 10:12 AM   #21
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My solution to meet requirements is really simple. One electric toilet is direct dump into holding tank... no other way off boat but to pump tank... no way to drain into water, at all. The other electric head is LectraSan... "Completely" disabled electrically with a "Do Not Use" sign on its "Always" taped down seat-top.

Let your minds wander on words in quotes.

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Old 05-12-2015, 10:52 AM   #22
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Law is satisfied by closing and removing handle from thru hull ball valve. That's how mine is. Handle is nearby.
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:59 AM   #23
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Law is satisfied by closing and removing handle from thru hull ball valve. That's how mine is. Handle is nearby.
Via need be... We all have our Wink, Wink ways!
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:52 PM   #24
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My solution to meet requirements is really simple. One electric toilet is direct dump into holding tank... no other way off boat but to pump tank... no way to drain into water, at all. The other electric head is LectraSan... "Completely" disabled electrically with a "Do Not Use" sign on its "Always" taped down seat-top.

Let your minds wander on words in quotes.

Art - isn't your Lectrasan legal for discharge anywhere except Richardson Bay?

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Old 05-12-2015, 01:46 PM   #25
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I frequently move between areas where discharge is and is not allowed.
I was surprised at how limited the EPA"No Discharge" list (linked above) was.....
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:11 PM   #26
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"I was surprised at how limited the EPA"No Discharge" list (linked above) was....."

The Fed EPA list may differ greatly from the individual State list.

And its the State guy with the outboard , hob nail boots boots and gun that will come knocking.
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:14 PM   #27
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The Fed EPA list may differ greatly from the individual State list.

And its the State guy with the outboard , hob nail boots boots and gun that will come knocking.
Good point...I'll research this...
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:18 PM   #28
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"For the second year when I have my USCG inspection done, the individual doing the inspection was more interested that I had the macerator switch safety wired off than he was on the position of the "y" valve. Never asked to see it."

If this will keep he poop police happy remember aircraft use switch guards that can be safety wired easily.

Toggle Switch Guard | eBay

The red ones

I remember those! I also like the red flip up ones
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:23 PM   #29
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I'm curious about the existence of a regulatory requirement to safety wire the macerator switch.

Was this an inspection by the Coast Guard or the Coast Guard Auxiliary? Did the inspector tell you that there was a regulatory requirement to safety wire the macerator switch? Would you have failed inspection if you had the thru hull or Y valve locked shut instead?

I've been boarded and inspected twice in the last three years by the Coast Guard. They checked to see that my holding tank thru hull was locked closed. I have never been asked to show that the macerator pump switch was safety wired off.
Not that I know of. It was an Aux guy. He told me he could not pass me unless the C/B was safety wired in the close position.
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:47 PM   #30
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Art - isn't your Lectrasan legal for discharge anywhere except Richardson Bay?

Richard
I don't believe it is legal to discharge LectraSan purified black water in Delta freshwaters where we boat, anchor, and swim! That's super fine with me!! We simply don't!!!

I'm not really sure it's even legal in most areas of SF Bay any more??

Our marina in Stockton is strict that there be no kind of black water discharge at all. We fully agree! Really happy to use our sealed-aboard no discharge holding tank for real "Black Water". It's 30 gallons and besides usually free emptying locations at gas docks there are numerous pump out service boats if needed to come empty tanks while on the hook. They'll even put into the tank a spray wand that cleans tank interior sides and then pump it again. Cost $35 to $45.

With special arrangement of very low-flow flush I arranged the tank usually only needs to be emptied 2 to 3 times annually.

Please understand - In our opinion... just like grade school... there is #1 and #2 regarding toilet usage. #2 is the real-firm "Black Water", filled with all sorts of nasty. #1 - Well I'll let you make your mind up on the severity of that mellow fluid... and how to handle it!

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Old 05-12-2015, 02:55 PM   #31
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FYI .......

The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states “ Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve.

I also think you'll find it is illegal to discharge grey water in Lake Champlain.
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Old 05-12-2015, 03:10 PM   #32
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FYI .......

The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve.

I also think you'll find it is illegal to discharge grey water in Lake Champlain.
I understand and pretty much agree with most laws limiting or even completely restricting discharge of human black water waste - especially in confined waters. I do not think that grey water such as boat cleaning or dish washing should be restricted as long as detergents used meet "green" requirements/standards; in that their contents are biodegradable. After all, the dirt on boat is same as dirt that hits top of water and I believe that 99.9% of dish-crud is 100% biodegradable foods. That said; if the "pond" being used for boating is considerably small with too many boats partaking, then even biodegradable grey water draining could become a problem
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Old 05-12-2015, 03:58 PM   #33
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I would rather the EPA make the decision rather than anyone for EPA approved devices.

Too many emotion based laws on the books as it is.

If ANY municipality discharges into the waters of an area...why not my approved device?
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:24 PM   #34
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"I was surprised at how limited the EPA"No Discharge" list (linked above) was....."

The Fed EPA list may differ greatly from the individual State list.
The EPA list only includes NDZs on coastal and inland interstate waterways. It does NOT include any of the inland fresh water lakes that are a) entirely INTRAstate, and b) do not connect to any navigable INTERstate waterways...all of which are NDZs.

And btw...federal law trumps state law...as at least 3 states that I know of have learned when their over-reaching state marine sanitation laws were overturned in court. See TITLE 46 , Subtitle I , Subtitle II , Part B , CHAPTER 43 , Sec. 4306. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/4306
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:52 PM   #35
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Not that I know of. It was an Aux guy. He told me he could not pass me unless the C/B was safety wired in the close position.
Sounds like a case of a Coast Guard Aux guy making up his own rules and requiring you to "respect his authoritah".

I believe the New York portion of Lake Champlain is a no discharge zone. No restrictions on grey water. Lake George has grey water restrictions.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:44 PM   #36
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These rules are just to cause you headaches. Key switches can be turned, safety wire and zip ties can be cut and replaced. This is just plain stupid to require. You cannot legislate morality and people are going to dump if they want to at any dock, anchorage, or while cruising when no one is looking.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:47 PM   #37
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I don't believe it is legal to discharge LectraSan purified black water in Delta freshwaters where we boat, anchor, and swim! That's super fine with me!! We simply don't!!!

I'm not really sure it's even legal in most areas of SF Bay any more??

Our marina in Stockton is strict that there be no kind of black water discharge at all. We fully agree! Really happy to use our sealed-aboard no discharge holding tank for real "Black Water". It's 30 gallons and besides usually free emptying locations at gas docks there are numerous pump out service boats if needed to come empty tanks while on the hook. They'll even put into the tank a spray wand that cleans tank interior sides and then pump it again. Cost $35 to $45.

With special arrangement of very low-flow flush I arranged the tank usually only needs to be emptied 2 to 3 times annually.

Please understand - In our opinion... just like grade school... there is #1 andtra #2 regarding toilet usage. #2 is the real-firm "Black Water", filled with all sorts of nasty. #1 - Well I'll let you make your mind up on the severity of that mellow fluid... and how to handle it!

Happy Marine-Ablutions Daze! - Art
Art,

I'm confused. Are you saying that the Lectrasan outputs black water?
Or is this a different "black"?
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:24 PM   #38
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Art,

I'm confused. Are you saying that the Lectrasan outputs black water?
Or is this a different "black"?
It's clean black
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:53 PM   #39
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Art,

I'm confused. Are you saying that the Lectrasan outputs black water?
Or is this a different "black"?
Richard - Sorry, don't mean to confuse you. I'll clarify how I feel. And, yes, it is a different "black".

It may be that LectraSan "sanitizes" crap well enough for general open water flushing purposes where dispersion can be considerable.. But, IMO, no matter what is done to it (unless natural filtrations happen via long duration natural processes) crap is still crap... I guess by using LectroSan crap could then be called "Black Water Light".

Would any person bathe in what flushed from a bowel movement that has just been treated by LectroSan process?? Want a drink! I think not.

Therefore, IMHO, black water is black water when you are swimming in it and it is getting into your eyes, ears, and mouth. Yuck!
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:25 PM   #40
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Richard - Sorry, don't mean to confuse you. I'll clarify how I feel. And, yes, it is a different "black".

It may be that LectraSan "sanitizes" crap well enough for general open water flushing purposes where dispersion can be considerable.. But, IMO, no matter what is done to it (unless natural filtrations happen via long duration natural processes) crap is still crap... I guess by using LectroSan crap could then be called "Black Water Light".

Would any person bathe in what flushed from a bowel movement that has just been treated by LectroSan process?? Want a drink! I think not.

Therefore, IMHO, black water is black water when you are swimming in it and it is getting into your eyes, ears, and mouth. Yuck!
Before someone says we're swimming in municipal sewage, one huge difference. Municipal systems are checked daily. There is no practical way for anyone to monitor the operation of your boat system, even if its the fanciest, most expensive chemical or biological system available. I believe the system on our boat does very well, but I do think it's reasonable to use it away from harbors and marinas. Pump outs are more and more available and we regularly run offshore. So, it's just not an issue.

Now, as to locking or twisting the valve or any of the other preventive measures, they're not going to stop those trying to circumvent things, but they will prevent us all from mistakenly dumping something we shouldn't where we shouldn't.
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