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Old 11-11-2010, 09:57 AM   #21
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

Quote:
sunchaser wrote:

Gonzo

Blisters sink the resale value of boats. As a prospective buyer, it is common to mark down the offer price by the amount to refinish the hull. Further, as a buyer, I'd also feel that a hull left to its blistering may speak poorly for the owner's attention in other areas. Eric's restorative techniques are neither expensive or time consuming.

Ralph Yost's boat on this forum had a* peel job a few years ago, maybe he could weigh in on the subject.
We'll have to agree to disagree then, because a blistered bottom should in no way reflect on the entire boats's upkeep. Like I said... cost vs. benefit. It only sinks the value if you are planning on selling it. If you are going to hold onto it for many years, it's hardly worth it. Sure, a little OCD might drive people to spend that kind of money on it and I won't fault them for it, but you can buy a full electronics suite, a full canvas enclosure, a nice Rolex, or hire a half-dozen young ladies to spend the day naked with you for that kind of layout.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:04 AM   #22
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

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sunchaser wrote:
*hire a half-dozen young ladies to spend the day naked with you for that kind of layout.
Darn it.
*Now I am gonna be thinking about that all day.

*
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:19 AM   #23
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

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According to many articals I have read the first thing you should check before having the props repitched is the back pressure on the exhaust.
This is often the cause for a boat not reaching WOT.

If the*props were properly pitched when new.* Why is there an issue now?*

I don't knowbut if you have them re pitched and the issue was high back pressure what would the re pitching do to the engine?

Here's an issue where a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but here goes anyway.Many performance boats (planning hulls) from Sea Ray, Carver, Bayliner, etc came from the factory over propped so they would attain the speed advertised. The effect is kinda like running your car in fourth gear all the time, excess engine wear, carbon buildup, etc.
My stbd engine is showing some carbon buildup in the intake side of the turbo and coupled with it's inability to get Cummins specified WOT of 2900-3000 rpm leads me to suspect an over pitch problem. The bottom is clean and probably does not need re-painting since it lives in fresh water for the moment, but I'm re-painting because I'm hauling it. I haven't been able to remove the exhaust side of the turbo because the bolts are rusted in, but it will be removed for inspection before I splash, and I should get a better read on the carbon issue after inspection.
The guru's on boat diesel want me to run it again at WOT to get another read on it, but I don't want to. I don't like putting that much stress on the engines, ever for a short time. So I'm kinda flying blind here by using the sea trial figures which may not be accurate now.
I can think of no down side by easing the pitch on the props other than not getting as much top end speed, which is not important to me. I typically run the boat no higher than 2200 rpm and am fine with the 18 knots that gives me.


The port engine has had the exhaust elbow replaced and inspection shows no carbon build up on the intake side, so I really don't know where I'm at with that engine. I'm also only getting 2750 rpm at WOT. The seller turned hostile and won't give me any information.*

*
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:19 AM   #24
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

Quote:
sunchaser wrote:

Gonzo

Blisters sink the resale value of boats. As a prospective buyer, it is common to mark down the offer price by the amount to refinish the hull. Further, as a buyer, I'd also feel that a hull left to its blistering may speak poorly for the owner's attention in other areas. Eric's restorative techniques are neither expensive or time consuming.

Ralph Yost's boat on this forum had a* peel job a few years ago, maybe he could weigh in on the subject.
Mine had HORRIBLE blisters when I bought it. I think we negotiated a $15k reduction in price, then it cost me $25K to properly peel, post-cure, and relaminate. For me, it was worth it. Every time we quick haul the boat I love that nice clean Krogen bottom. The shipyard that did it also comes out to check their work too. We used the HotVac system.

*
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:45 AM   #25
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Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

Quote:
timjet wrote:My stbd engine is showing some carbon buildup in the intake side of the turbo and coupled with it's inability to get Cummins specified WOT of 2900-3000 rpm leads me to suspect an over pitch problem.


The port engine has had the exhaust elbow replaced and inspection shows no carbon build up on the intake side,
All the flags here are waving at an exhaust leak on the STBD engine. Overloading will not magically produce what you call carbon buildup on the compressor.

That stuff is carbon but it is in the form of soot that comes from an exhaust leak, not a carbon deposit as normally describes a specific condition associated with combustion area or exhaust parts. You might get carbon deposits on the turbine but only oily soot on the compressor.

Replacing the exhaust elbow on the port engine seems to have eliminated the exhaust leak and the clean compressor shows it.

As far as another test run, if the engine is not smoking black and the exhaust temperature is not excessive then you won't do any harm. The loss of 150 rpm can be almost anything including tachometer error.


-- Edited by RickB on Friday 12th of November 2010 06:49:24 AM
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:58 PM   #26
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Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

There are two different WOT one is the manufactures WOT the other is the Maximum Governed WOT. Governed by the fuel pump. It will not allow the engine RPM's to go beyond what will hurt the engine.

So running at WOT will not damage or stress a diesel. If done occasionally. many yards will run at WOT for spring shake down and most Marine Surveys run it up to see if there is a problem i.e. black smoke or not reaching WOT.
It is my understanding that 1 or 2 hundred RPM does not necessarily mean there is a problem.
A diesel engine also performs better under a load does it not?

Many*diesels in heavy equipment are run at WOT continuously. As well as diesel generators.

Please don't take my word on this* but is is something to consider or at least research.*

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Friday 12th of November 2010 04:02:13 PM
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:23 AM   #27
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

Quote:
RickB wrote:

All the flags here are waving at an exhaust leak on the STBD engine. Overloading will not magically produce what you call carbon buildup on the compressor.
Rick,

How would I know if I had an exhaust leak? I've check the engine at 2000 rpm - no load and have not noted any exhaust leak.

Concerning the port engine and no carbon build-up, As you mentioned and exhaust leak* may have been the issue with it, but it's possible that another problem developed requiring the mixing elbow to be replaced and not enough time has passed for the carbon to build up in it due to over loading ie over pitched prop.

I ran the engine last weekend and got only 2600 rpm out of both of them. During the run I check the vacuum gauges and they were low, not even in the yellow, so lack of fuel should not have caused the low rpm reading. I am going to check the throttle linkage and make sure that full throttle is really selecting full throttle. If that checks out OK, I'm going to have the pitch eased a bit on the props.

At sea trial, the surveyor said the tacks were within 50 rpm.

*
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:33 AM   #28
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

I hauled the boat yesterday and the resident mechanic at the marina suggested that since I have so many small blisters, it would make sense to have the whole bottom sand blasted down to the gel coat. Then it will be easy to see and repair the blisters. Once repaired a barrier coat is applied and then the bottom painted.

I haven't got a price on sand blasting, but the vendor is right next door. I talked to him yesterday and he confirmed it will be a lot easier to see and repair all the blisters once he sand blasted the bottom. He seem like a stand up guy and I trust his opinion. However, if sand blasting is being done just so it's easier to find the blisters, that seems a bit of overkill.

The mechanic that first suggested the sand blasting and application of a barrier coat said that the bottom should last 3 to 4 years without further attention except of course periodic cleaning. Generally in the warm FL waters 2 years is the max you can expect, so if the mechanics opinion is correct, I may come out ahead by doing the sand blasting. I won't know until I get a sand blasting estimate.

Anybody care to comment?
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:13 PM   #29
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

Had the hull soda-blasted back to the gel coat four years ago because there was too much paint build-up.

It certainly, gave a nice even surface to work with and I was able to repair several blisters... but I still get them and simply repair at each haul-out (two-yearly). I wouldn't have the hull blasted simply to provide better access to blisters.

Rather than grind them out, I use a small chisel and cut around and under them, then fill with a vinylester based water-proof filler available from CRC here in NZ.

A quick sand, a couple of coats of Primecon (International) and the surface is ready for antifouling.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:49 PM   #30
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RE: Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

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Bendit wrote:

Had the hull soda-blasted back to the gel coat four years ago because there was too much paint build-up.



We had the*bottom of our last boat (43')*sand blasted to remove the paint build up on the Gold Coast in OZ in 2003.* Then it cost $1,000.00 (AU).* How much was the soda-blast job in NZ, which the experts say is less destructive to the gel coat?

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
La Cruz, Nayarit, MX
*
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:19 PM   #31
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Hauling to bottom paint - What else should I be doing

It cost about NZD 2,000 (USD 1,560) - 53 ft hull.

-- Edited by Bendit on Tuesday 16th of November 2010 06:21:14 PM
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