Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-18-2016, 07:48 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Central Florida
Country: United States
Vessel Name: NICE Transom
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Tradewinds 43'
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Hard or Ablative?

Our New to us boat is "on the hard," with the bottom to be sanded and primed on Monday. Still at question, is should I apply a Hard bottom paint or an ablative? Looking for a concensus or simply the best course for a boat that will be predominately in Florida waters, yet will start the loop from Florida in April. Could really use some feed back.
Thanks in Advance,
KIM
__________________
Advertisement

Ransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 07:59 PM   #2
Guru
 
eyschulman's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon River
Vessel Model: Devlin 48
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,263
If your boat is slow less than 10K I would suggest ablative. If you spend any significant time at high speed hard. If you want to scrub the bottom from time to time hard.
__________________

eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 08:18 PM   #3
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,685
I travel at 7 knots and started with a good ablative. Am disappointed with the results. Use the same paint on my charter boat that cruises at 15 knots. At 15 knots, the ablative slowly sheds and doesn't require a diver scrub until late in the season. The trawler doesn't seem to travel fast enough to shed and thus requires more frequent scrubs. The scrubs seem to take more paint off, which defeats the purpose. So, I will be switching to hard in the spring and plan on same amount of scrubbings with less paint loss. That's my experience, your mileage may vary,
.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 08:19 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
City: Central Florida
Country: United States
Vessel Name: NICE Transom
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Tradewinds 43'
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Thanks for that. Yes, the boat is on the slow side, so the ablative make sense. The boat most likely had an ablative on it, but also had a diver on it about every 8 to 10 weeks.........subsequently it was Scrubbed down to the original surface - nothing left to bond too. I don't know if I can afford to have a diver scrape to often, SO, ablative it is.
Thanks,
KIM
Ransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 08:42 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
I am kind of in the same predicament, looking at having my bottom sanded down. What I believe I heard Ted say is that ablative requires consistent speed (in excess of trawler speeds) in order to shed the fouling and surface-most paint layer it attaches to...

So if the boat will run slowly (trawler speeds) and particularly if it will experience periods of inactivity at the dock over the course of a couple years, then a hard paint may be better.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is how I heard Ted.
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 09:15 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
City: Central Florida
Country: United States
Vessel Name: NICE Transom
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Tradewinds 43'
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Thanks Ted,
A Good Reason to go with a Hard Paint. We will be leaving Ft. Myers in April, and should log about 6500 miles in about a year. We'll be moving along quite a bit for a while, but then will become a little more sedentary. It's the months back in Florida that will require more scrappings. If we go with ablative, we end up paying to put in on, then pay someone to scrap it off. Definetly an 'AH Ha!!!" moment.
Glad I Asked.
KIM
Ransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 09:31 PM   #7
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,685
Guess I may see you a long the way. Leaving Fort Myers on or before the 1st of April to do the loop.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 10:01 PM   #8
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,384
I used Interlux Micron extra 7 or so years ago and not inclined to do so again. It's hard enough so it needs to be removed. Been there done that and I'm NOT going there again. I helped on that job and it was a very bad experience. If you can pay to have someone else do it thats different but I don't consider it a DIY job.
So never again for me.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 10:14 PM   #9
FOG
Senior Member
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: DreamQuest
Vessel Model: Prairie 36
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
I travel at 7 knots and started with a good ablative. Am disappointed with the results. Use the same paint on my charter boat that cruises at 15 knots. At 15 knots, the ablative slowly sheds and doesn't require a diver scrub until late in the season. The trawler doesn't seem to travel fast enough to shed and thus requires more frequent scrubs. The scrubs seem to take more paint off, which defeats the purpose. So, I will be switching to hard in the spring and plan on same amount of scrubbings with less paint loss. That's my experience, your mileage may vary,
.

Ted
Curious as to how often you are expecting to have the bottom scrubbed while on the Loop?
I'm also debating which type of bottom paint to use. Similar speed and planning to do bottom paint in April before starting the Loop.
FOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 11:08 PM   #10
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,080
This is what my yardmaster applies to the Coot. Not sure of its properties.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 11:12 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
drb1025's Avatar
 
City: Bellevue, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Fiddler
Vessel Model: DeFever 46
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 485
I use ablative and operate at trawler speed (I don't have a choice to go faster haha), and using the boat will clean the bottom. Continual use such as on the loop should keep it clean, not requiring a diver to clean it. Even after sitting at the dock for awhile, the bottom stuff sluffs away during use. When it's time for a new bottom paint job, you can apply an ablative without sanding off the residual, whereas a hard paint will build up and eventually need sanding, which costs more money.
drb1025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 11:19 PM   #12
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,384
Mark,
That's what I put on Willy before we left for Alaska. Lasted at least 3 years but decided it needed to be removed before recoating. Should have had a fully suited up professional to remove it. I hired a man in Alaska to help me. He did 3/4 of the job and I paied him well. Don't know what I would have done w/o the tungston carbide scraper. Terrible work. I hope your bottom is good enough to just add more paint.

Of course if you hire a bead blaster or other it's just money.
Is that Petit Barnacle Buster on the prop? Didn't work for me. I went back to ArmorAll.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 11:42 PM   #13
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
...
Is that Petit Barnacle Buster on the prop?...
Not sure. Would need to research the billings. The propeller always seems to attract barnacles first rather than the hull. Strange.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 06:47 AM   #14
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,368
I use the cheapest ablative type I could find.

After watching it for years on assistance towboats I ran...I thought it would work for me too.

I use Interlude Fiberglass Bottomkote NT. Usually pay 80 to 90 bucks a gallon.

When constantly moving on the ICW where you are fresh to salt and back again every week or so, and constantly moving at 6 to 7 knots...my bottom stays clean as new. I do the 2500 miles from Jersey to Florida every winter.

When she sits for 5 months during the summer in a high fouling area, when I pull for the annual bottom check and zinc replacement the bottom is usually fouled but not so bad it mostly comes off with a short ride before the travel lift or had I wiped her down once or twice during the summer.

But every user and home dock has slightly different needs.

While some will say saving money on paint (the last step and possibly the cheapest part of painting)....I say it is equally foolish to waste money on paint that does no better than the cheap one. Granted..just constant moving and salinity changes are probably a bigger factor than the paint.

The trick is, you might have to know what works well in your application through experience, a bunch of questions and notes, or trial and error. But I feel pretty confident that looping will minimize the costs unless you stop for long periods.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 06:50 AM   #15
Veteran Member
 
City: Central Florida
Country: United States
Vessel Name: NICE Transom
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Tradewinds 43'
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
I have to say, Great Responses from All, and it was what I was hoping to hear to help with my decision. The part about THE HARD paint building up and creating a problem in itself - and a need to sand or blast it off(over time), I hear in my wallet. One of the responses begs the question regarding the Painting of the Prop. Our Surveyor recommended NOT painting the props - keep em clean for preformance' sake. However I was told the Prop would be the first place the barnacles will attach. If we are moving pretty regularly on The Loop, that may not be a real issure for a year - especially after we make it to the Great Lakes.

Side Note: One of the things that tends to haunt me, is Bumping the Bottom on shifting shoals etc.....as we make it up the East Coast. Being the Positive Thinker(LOL), that I am, having to have the boat Hauled Out for a repair, will be my occasion to Clean the Props.

Thanks to All,
KIM
Ransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 06:52 AM   #16
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG View Post
Curious as to how often you are expecting to have the bottom scrubbed while on the Loop?
I'm also debating which type of bottom paint to use. Similar speed and planning to do bottom paint in April before starting the Loop.
As the loop is mostly fresh water and I will be moving a fair amount, it might need to be scrubbed once. Plan is to paint in the Chesapeake and be on the Erie canal within a month. The rest is essentially fresh till I hit the Gulf of Mexico. Will be bringing scuba gear (hookah) with me. Plan to check the hull monthly. Have had better luck with the Petit spray zinc as opposed to Prop Speed on the running gear. Prop speed is dependent on fast water flow to blow small developing growth off. At 7 knots my skeg was a barnacle farm. The spray zinc worked much better. On the charter boat with its 15 knot speed, the Prop Speed worked well.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 07:01 AM   #17
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
I have to say, Great Responses from All, and it was what I was hoping to hear to help with my decision. The part about THE HARD paint building up and creating a problem in itself - and a need to sand or blast it off(over time), I hear in my wallet. One of the responses begs the question regarding the Painting of the Prop. Our Surveyor recommended NOT painting the props - keep em clean for preformance' sake. However I was told the Prop would be the first place the barnacles will attach. If we are moving pretty regularly on The Loop, that may not be a real issure for a year - especially after we make it to the Great Lakes.

Side Note: One of the things that tends to haunt me, is Bumping the Bottom on shifting shoals etc.....as we make it up the East Coast. Being the Positive Thinker(LOL), that I am, having to have the boat Hauled Out for a repair, will be my occasion to Clean the Props.

Thanks to All,
KIM
The hard paint build up is misleading. If you leave the boat in the water year round and paint every 2 or 3 years, it will take decades to have a significant build up. Put hard paint on my charter boat every spring for 12 years. That and the preceeding 24 years of paint was enough to require sand blasting the hull.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 07:43 AM   #18
Guru
 
TDunn's Avatar
 
City: Maine Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 654
I have been using ablative paints for 20+ years. I put a marker coat on in a different color then top coated with the desired color. When the marker shows through I repaint, or sometimes just spot paint. My boat never goes more than 7 knots except for a few minutes each spring when I run the engine up to full throttle. I have never had growth beyond a little slime and have never had a diver clean the bottom. As far as the prop goes, I have had a few small barnacles but never more than one or two. I do polish the prop each spring.

The advantages I see of for ablative are no build up and being able to repaint with no bottom prep other than pressure washing at haulout.

For the last 10-12 years I have been using Petit Hydrocoat. Last spring I switched one boat to Sea Hawk Monterey water based ablative and kept the other with Petit Hydrocoat. The Sea Hawk worked a bit better (less slime) and cost $25-$30 a gallon less so I will use it on both boats next year.
TDunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 08:33 AM   #19
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 925
I will second the shout for Hydrocoat and Sea Hawk, both are great in New England waters. Using two different colors lets you paint only the worn spots.
As to smoothness, you can get a smoother bottom with hard paint, but you can keep a smoother bottom over years with albative paint. Use the brand that works best in your local area.
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 09:12 AM   #20
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,384
When we were in Alaska I used Pettit Sea Mate.
Went to the hardware store and there was a huge pyramid of gallons on the floor. It was obvious people there rarely used anything else. We had tide grids too so cleaning a bit and adding another coat of antifoul was cheap and easy. The Seamate was $80 gal.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012