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Old 02-03-2016, 12:01 AM   #21
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Boats with big rudders do better walking. If you have small rudders the boat will just want to turn the way the gears are set ignoring rudders so walking seems impossible. In that case try shifting in and out of gear so as to not overcome the rudders, You also get the benefit of the initial sideways thrust of the prop when put into gear. "Shift astern to push away" is a helpful mantra.
Even if you are angling into the dock you can slow the sterns approach to the dock with a shot of reverse on the dock side only.
Just because you have twins doesn't mean that you always must use both. I do a lot of maneuvering using one prop side or the other depending on what I want to happen.
Boats with tunnels are most difficult and maybe some boats just wont walk but since all boats have some side thrust from the prop you have that to work with.


For getting away from the dock if there is room ahead try rudder toward the dock and going ahead on only the dock side engine. The boat will push away from the dock while moving ahead.


Practice, practice and don't use too much power.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:22 AM   #22
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Thank you

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
What you say about amidships helm is true enough for ordinary maneuvers but for sideway motion the rudders become useful. Experiment with your helm all the way over with one engine bumped in forward and the other in reverse and see which way your boat moves. The trick is to find the balance between forward and astern bump that moves boat more sideways than turning. It usually takes multiple bumps and corrections and some boats do better than others I have seen twin engine boats without thrusters do a very credible job of going sideways and a boat with a bow thruster and this technique should do well.
I'm always very open and glad to get interesting and well explained advices like yours is, so I will remember your reply and put it into practice the next time I would have to docking sideways.

Thank you,

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Old 02-03-2016, 08:37 AM   #23
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Boats with big rudders do better walking.
This has been my experience. I used to own a Brand Banks 42 which I did not manage to move sideways using the technique described here whereas with my current boat, a Grand Banks 50, the technique works fairly well.

I believe the difference is the much larger rudders on the GB50.

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Boats with big rudders do better walking.

Practice, practice and don't use too much power.
While I agree practice is key, I actually have to use a fair amount of power.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:33 AM   #24
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What a beautiful GB 50' ! Built 1969 ? 1970 ?
I see your former 42' was fiberglass.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:42 AM   #25
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What a beautiful GB 50' ! Built 1969 ? 1970 ?
I see your former 42' was fiberglass.
Thank you. It is magnificent! It was built in 1973, one of the last ones built.

The 42 was a 1979 fibreglass boat, allso vey nice.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:36 AM   #26
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Handling Question:moving sideways w/twins

I found it pretty easy to do with our 24' express cruiser, a lot of steering and shifting but I could walk it sideways into a opening on a finger between 2 other boats. Our previous boat a 32' and the 38 we have now both have prop pockets and it's more difficult walking them, it can be done but needs some use of the throttles.


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Old 02-03-2016, 11:44 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xlantic View Post
This has been my experience. I used to own a Brand Banks 42 which I did not manage to move sideways using the technique described here whereas with my current boat, a Grand Banks 50, the technique works fairly well.

I believe the difference is the much larger rudders on the GB50.



While I agree practice is key, I actually have to use a fair amount of power.
I wonder if it is a function, in part, to how close the rudders are to the props? I haven't had the experience or practice in our small ruddered motoryacht to try the walking maneuver yet, but seeing the pics you posted makes me wonder that if the rudders are virtually useless at directing thrust under the conditions needed to do something like walking.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:49 PM   #28
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Even small rudders can work lf you shift in and out of gear
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Old 02-03-2016, 03:42 PM   #29
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a little fwd momentum helps
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:50 PM   #30
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The person who introduced me to this maneuver has a 60' old timer with a single rudder well aft of the props and twins. He could put that boat in places I would find difficult with my much smaller vessel. The single rudder is a good size.
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Old 02-03-2016, 07:30 PM   #31
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I put the rudders amid ship on my sporty and never touch the steering again. Big props set deep and no keel at all helps a lot (in this circumstance). The big Allison gears shift pretty firmly and consistant, and to move directly sideways it takes a good bit of shifting. With about 3 foot forward movement and 3 foot aftward movement the boat will move about 6 foot to the side. Less for and aft means less sideways. With wind and current it becomes more difficult, obviously. A bow thruster would be nice.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:33 PM   #32
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Thanks Boatdriver. As I think about it, yours is the best, and only answer. It has to "all" matter. Rudder size, pitch, direction of thrust, draft are all to be worked with. Now, to have the moment when the wife is off the boat and I can play around with all this. She has little patience and less sense of humor at times like this.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:31 PM   #33
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Thanks Boatdriver. As I think about it, yours is the best, and only answer. It has to "all" matter. Rudder size, pitch, direction of thrust, draft are all to be worked with. Now, to have the moment when the wife is off the boat and I can play around with all this. She has little patience and less sense of humor at times like this. Ted
She might gain a lot more patience and sense of humor if she were the one learning how to do it.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:13 PM   #34
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Touche HeadMistress! Message received, lesson learned.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:47 PM   #35
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I found and printed an easily understood demystifying article on "Walking Sideways" some time ago. Written by Capt. Alan Ross Hugenot, headed "Two For The Road",a footnote to the copied page reads "102 SEA / JUNE 2004. No idea where I found it, those interested, with sleuthing skills, check it out.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:21 PM   #36
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Touche HeadMistress! Message received, lesson learned. Ted
Some openings are just irresistable! But on a serious note...

It's absolutely essential that spouses and SOs learn at least enough to be able to use the VHF and take control of the helm--if only to pull the throttle(s) back to idle and take the boat out of gear!--in case of emergency. Better yet, to be able to bring the boat to the nearest safe harbor and put it alongside a dock or T-head where an ambulance can take the stricken or injured person off the boat.

For 3+ years my husband fought a losing battle with bone cancer. He LOVED our boat! In the last year of his life, if I hadn't known how to handle it, we'd have had to become landlubbers.And it's a good thing I did because we did have a couple of "get him ashore and to an emergency room quickly" experiences that weren't life threatening yet, but could have become so. I've heard too many stories of wives who became totally hysterical...could only scream into the VHF mike, didn't even know enough to let go of the transmit button, much less how to stop the boat or even give anyone their location...when their husbands collapsed out on the water. Anything can happen out there to the oldest OR the youngest of us, and both of you need to be prepared to deal with it!

The Power Squadron is one of several organizations that teach "pinch hitter" skills to wives and SOs...that instruction--and more--is often available at rendezvous. Do yourselves a huge favor and give your admiral the encouragement--and courage if necessary!--to learn how to be a real deck hand and even a relief skipper. Her having those skills COULD save both your lives some day...meanwhile they're wonderful confidence builders that add a whole lot more fun aboard for her than only being your "step and fetch it!"

I'll get off my soapbox now...
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
I found and printed an easily understood demystifying article on "Walking Sideways" some time ago. Written by Capt. Alan Ross Hugenot, headed "Two For The Road",a footnote to the copied page reads "102 SEA / JUNE 2004. No idea where I found it, those interested, with sleuthing skills, check it out.
http://captainhugenot.com/?wpdmdl=175

Many other interesting-sounding articles in this site.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:27 AM   #38
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Excellent comment

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Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Some openings are just irresistable! But on a serious note...

It's absolutely essential that spouses and SOs learn at least enough to be able to use the VHF and take control of the helm--if only to pull the throttle(s) back to idle and take the boat out of gear!--in case of emergency. Better yet, to be able to bring the boat to the nearest safe harbor and put it alongside a dock or T-head where an ambulance can take the stricken or injured person off the boat.

For 3+ years my husband fought a losing battle with bone cancer. He LOVED our boat! In the last year of his life, if I hadn't known how to handle it, we'd have had to become landlubbers.And it's a good thing I did because we did have a couple of "get him ashore and to an emergency room quickly" experiences that weren't life threatening yet, but could have become so. I've heard too many stories of wives who became totally hysterical...could only scream into the VHF mike, didn't even know enough to let go of the transmit button, much less how to stop the boat or even give anyone their location...when their husbands collapsed out on the water. Anything can happen out there to the oldest OR the youngest of us, and both of you need to be prepared to deal with it!

The Power Squadron is one of several organizations that teach "pinch hitter" skills to wives and SOs...that instruction--and more--is often available at rendezvous. Do yourselves a huge favor and give your admiral the encouragement--and courage if necessary!--to learn how to be a real deck hand and even a relief skipper. Her having those skills COULD save both your lives some day...meanwhile they're wonderful confidence builders that add a whole lot more fun aboard for her than only being your "step and fetch it!"

I'll get off my soapbox now...
Ever wounder why your wife is afraid to leave the dock. No one likes to feel helpless, encourage your wife to handle the boat and feel confident that she understands the basic safety systems, especially the VFH, and fire suppression. The life you safe may be yours.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:28 AM   #39
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Quote:
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Thanks Boatdriver. As I think about it, yours is the best, and only answer. It has to "all" matter. Rudder size, pitch, direction of thrust, draft are all to be worked with. Now, to have the moment when the wife is off the boat and I can play around with all this. She has little patience and less sense of humor at times like this.
Ted
That's probably the only way to figure it out as different boats may react vary differently to this technique. In fact, in the Captain Huguenot article mentioned above, the resulting motion he suggests is the opposite to the one most people in the post experience!
http://captainhugenot.com/?wpdmdl=175

I suspect what happens is that with this technique is that there are two, opposing, sideways forces acting on the stern: one from the forward-prop wash acting on the rudder and the other from the now combined "prop walk" of the two props rotating in the same direction.

So, in a boat like my GB50 with big rudders close to the props, the sideways force of the rudders overcomes the opposing "prop walk". In my previous boat, a GB42 with smaller rudders further from the props, the forces may have been balanced and the technique did not work. And in Captain Huguenot's case, it is the force from the prop walk that overcomes.

YMMV
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:37 AM   #40
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Not sure if everyone is on the same sheet of musing...there's "walking" sideways and "sliding sideways"...


Most inboard twin boats and operators can walk sideways...sliding is an elusive animal.
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