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Old 07-07-2009, 06:00 AM   #1
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Halmatic long range motor boat

Dear all, i am sitting in Hamburg / Germany and i need an advice from the experienced crowd here because in europe trawler and long range powerboats are quite seldeom. We do have a lot of Dutch steel boats and the Med is crowded with big powerboas but the longrange eco boat is somewhat seldom. i have read beebes VUP and did my research based on 20 years sailing experience but motorboats are a differnt breed.

I am looking now at one boat in Greece which you can have alook a apolloduck http://www.apolloduck.gr/feature.phtml?id=45513

a Halmatic 40. The yard is quite wellknown for commercial crafts like pilot boats and the hull is sound and solid. Unfortunatly it is not a real full displacement but a heavy displacement with a deep keel ( 1,8 m depth). Single CAT 3208 180 HP ( should be too big ) but it performend now since 6000 hours even with longer ocean passage from spain to the UK

All in all it is a fair compromise and the choice in europe is quite small so i am really interested. For the timebeing i want to move on board for 2-3 years exploring the Med and europe and maybe later thinking about a transatlantik, but not sure now. There is allways the option to transport the boat with dockwise i case i do not like to do it by myself.

I know a nordhavn 46 might be better but far out of my budget.

Please let me have your comments
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:23 PM   #2
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Halmatic long range motor boat

Looks like a fine vessel, if it has the room you desire she should be a good choice.

The Cat engines are used in light duty trucks and skool busses , just the type engine that's fine at low speed cruise.

A tougher more industrial engine may suffer from the light loads of displacement cruising.

Your Cat "Cruising speed: 7 knots @ 1600 rpm consumption 8.5 lts/hr.
Max speed: 9.5 knots @ 2400 rpm consumption 34.5 ltrs/hr.

At 1600 is running on under 3gph , perhaps 45 hp , at best.

A 3208 is fine at this type service and should be good for 5000 to 9000 hours before its replacement time. If you attempted the rated 180HP , hundreds , not thousands of hours would be the service life.

Since you already have 6000 hours , I would be certain too demand a compression test , to find compression and blowby.* These engines ARE NOT re buildable in place , and must be removed to refresh the cylinder bores and pistons and rings.* If the results are OK you will have thousands of hours left .Mostly it depends on how hard it was run , and if the correct diesel lube oil was used.


This is the same as many of the Ford Econo-Power units , great at 40-80 hp , taxed if run harder.

If you going to do any offshore , will the trips be long enough to require some form of roll stability?

FF


-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 7th of July 2009 12:28:04 PM
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Old 07-08-2009, 04:11 AM   #3
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RE: Halmatic long range motor boat

thats a nice reply and as the last owner seems to be a precise sailor i not worry that he did good maintenance. he has a lot of spare on board and a fuel polishing system built* inetc . the problem would be to move the engine out of the boat for remanufacturing. price wise one has to see if a new engine would be better swap or a reconditioning with cylinder sleeves.

room is fine with me, i consider a 40 feet sailing boat in comparison.....

in germany Caterpillar quoted to me a 38.000 USD for a renovation ( they are crazy ) i think one can do it for 10.000 USD , but actually i like to avoid it .....

CAT told me the same reg. engine hours 10.000 should be possible without problem as long as no corrosion occurs inside the engine. Only the high powered*3208 with 250-400 HP are counting in hundred of hours.

Rooling: Yes this is the main question, the last owner did some tests and mentioned he can stand the rolling which seems to be not too quick. I have to experience by myself, if necessary i install a A mast with paravanes. Def. i will install add. Macrolon storm window shutters.
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Old 07-08-2009, 04:29 AM   #4
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Halmatic long range motor boat

The most modern method of considering engine life is total fuel burn.

In other words an engine eating 12gph for its operating life will last only 1/3 as long as an engine eating 4gph.

Not exactially a direct correlation , but yes if the boat was cruised at modest power settings it will last lots longer .

Of course with industrial rated engines severe underloading will reduce engine life , but not on the 3208 at 1600.

My suggestion for a compression and blow by test stand , and while the injectors are out they should tested and either re set or rebuilt.

In the US the test is perhaps $5.00 each with rebuilding locally at about $60 to $70 each.

One delight of the 3208 is injector pump re-timing is a snap if ever needed .

The holding bolts are loosened , a timing pin (1/4 or 5/16 inch bolt?) is pushed into a hole and the unit secured , the pin removed . Done!!

Compared to a Detroit timing where its a skilled all day task this is a real blessing.

In the US CAT rebuild prices are stoopid too , however a good running truck takeout is $3000 to $4000 depending on age.

Google Boats and Harbors , a sales paper , and you can see US parts & rebuild prices.

FF

-- Edited by FF on Wednesday 8th of July 2009 04:33:37 AM
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Old 07-08-2009, 04:54 AM   #5
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RE: Halmatic long range motor boat

good to hear , i was told to be carefull in respect of low rpm running due to sooting or carbon built up etc. but for a 3406 CAT, which is bigger .

the last owner had the boat 6 years with 500-800 hrs a year slow *cruising so we are on the safe side. during the many month of keeping the boat in port while the owner is living in Thailand during winter time , a boatkeeper is running the engine once a week to full temperature.*

i know this is not too good but maybe better then sitting months in the water without running


by the way i learnt from a us maker that fuel pumps with reduced HP are available for the 3208, with 117 , 125 and 150 HP instead of the 180 HP. do you think this will change the fuel consumption considerably ?
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Old 07-09-2009, 04:50 AM   #6
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RE: Halmatic long range motor boat

a boatkeeper is running the engine once a week to full temperature.

i know this is not too good but maybe better then sitting months in the water without running

This SUCKS as a thing to do to your engine !!!!!!!!!!!

The best way is to simply follow any engine mfg recomendation to "take the engine out of service". A couple of hours work , and a couple of bucks.

This requires an oil change after a RUN , never ideling at the dock,and the installation of fresh oil and filters AND frequently a preserving oil that is volitle and covers internal parts with a film. Std oil drains off in hours.

The intake and exhaust is capped to as air tight as practical, and some mfg require a fuel stabelizer to be run into the system.


"by the way i learnt from a us maker that fuel pumps with reduced HP are available for the 3208, with 117 , 125 and 150 HP instead of the 180 HP. do you think this will change the fuel consumption considerably ?"

Not really, the diesel will only consume the amount of fuel needed to create the throttle set hp.

To "tune" the engine for more efficiency the injectors and timing would need to be changed.

Ask the supplier for a "fuel map" for each of his pumps , and you will see for yourself.

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Old 07-09-2009, 05:50 AM   #7
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RE: Halmatic long range motor boat

yes this was my idea alsa, same as for wintering. maybe he was reading something at the surveyor side of Mr Pascoe

quote

Do not permit engines to sit without running them for more than 7 days. Try to operate engines at least every 5 days. Allow engines to warm up, then run at about 1500 RPM for about 5 minutes, then shut down.

unquote


your receommndation is def, the better one. so allways one found some problems when looking for old boats......
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:39 AM   #8
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RE: Halmatic long range motor boat

Allow engines to warm up, then run at about 1500 RPM for about 5 minutes, then shut down.

Although I respect Mr Pascoe his advice is poor.

The problem is even though some thermostats can raise the coolant water levels to read a nice number , the engine , the oil and all the internal parts are not really WARM.

The hassle is diesels are so efficient that most will cool at idle , not heat.

IF you are in a place where you wont wash out the channel or take apart the dock , operating stationary at a low cruise RPM for a half hour or more , might me OK.

But the cold starts and long period of warm up does not help any engine.

If "treated" to 5 min a week treatment ,

I would certainly change the oil, before going for a cruise, the filter should be OK, you're looking to get rid of the acids and unburned combustion blow by from the cold operation.

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Old 07-10-2009, 07:03 AM   #9
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RE: Halmatic long range motor boat

I will only add that a naturally aspirated Cat 3208 around these parts is rated at 210hp. The 180hp rating is obviously de-rated for increased service life and maybe even "commercialized" for heavy duty use. I will also add that the most common version of this engine in a boosted turbocharged application is 375hp. There are MANY of these engines going strong well after 3000 hours pushing heavy motoryachts at planing speeds. The 3208 is a very good engine!
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