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Old 11-20-2014, 12:30 AM   #61
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Absolutely. Our design was altered to have higher rails. The one thing to watch with tall rails is having adequate cross rails so no one slips under either.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:23 AM   #62
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:08 AM   #63
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One related side-note: Something about my boat knocks out kids after about an hour or two of running. Maybe the purr of the engine, who knows. I've got a futon in the salon and invariably there ends up a pile of kids completely zonked out. Kind of warms the heart.

And yes, I have a CO monitor, it's not that!!!
That was my first thought... haha.
My parents took my sister and I boating a lot when we were kids. She would pass out after about 15 minutes at cruising speed. Never failed. It was pretty adorable. I have a similar issue with planes now. Once I get above 5,000 feet, staying conscious isn't really an option. It's not so adorable when I do it.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:22 AM   #64
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Wifey B: While we don't have kids we do love them. It's one thing not to have them, but some of the strong dislike, calling them idiots, and just hateful comments here on kids shocks the h... out of me.
And me as well. There's too much violence against children now a days and disdain for children upsets me. My wife and I were a childless couple (not by choice) for a long time after we married. I convinced myself over the years that we'd be fine without children (brats, expensive, no time for travel, etc.), but my life changed for the better overnight once I found out my wife was pregnant at 38. I now have a beautiful, well-behaved four year old daughter--I couldn't imagine life any other way. We've taken her on the boat since the age of 2 and she loves and respects the water. Children need patient teachers and mentors--we were all there once. Idiocy and ignorance are separate matters.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:49 AM   #65
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One thing this thread has made me realize after raising 3 of the most incredible kids in the world 24-31 now

I think I have gotten a bit selfish in my empty nest times

some of the most incredible memories I have as a child were with parents and other adults

going to power squadron meetings

camping on islands on the Mississippi

trawling in the everglades

deep sea fishing in the PNW

Growing up in St. Petersburg on the water I never took it for granted even as a young child how blessed I was to have TAmpa bay as my playground

At the same time as a newbie back into large boats over 20 years out

I have to learn my boat and myself

we have taken kids out twice now and I think I will keep coming up with new ideas and rules for the kids on our boat
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:41 AM   #66
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I'm with Boatpoker! My kids started out very young in our sailboats, and were poipular among others on a cruise in a flotilla. Now it's time for the grandkids. Their parents know the rules well.

If the pic uploads, it shows my youngest grandson piloting my son't Sea Ray on the river in Milwaukee.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:36 AM   #67
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Todays Kids....

My kids go to a very special and wonderful school. It is a Charter school that has grade K to 12. In NC, a Charter school is a public school, though it gets less money per child than the county systems, that is run directly by the parents. To get into the school, you just have to sign up and with popular schools, you might have to win a lottery drawing to get a seat.

The big advantage to this school, and I think for similar Charters, is that the kids are together from K to 12 so they are in a big one room school house so to speak. The different grades help the other grades, there is no class system like when I was in school. The kids have to learn to deal with each other because the school is small compared to county schools and the kids will be with each for year. If the kids have a problem with each other, they have to resolve it which seems to help the kids mature. The other advantage for the Charter is that the kids parents are involved if only to sign up their kid to get them in the school as opposed to dropping them off at the county school.

For the last few years, I use up some very valuable vacation time to chaperone multi day school trips. The other parents don't know what they are missing, or to put it another way, what I am gaining for using some vacation time. I get to see how the kids behave outside the home and how they relate to others. Parents don't usually get to see this at all.

What has impressed me is how well these kids behave, not only to others out of the school, but within the group. During last years trip a retired Navy vet come up to me and another chaperone who were watching over the kids. The vet thought we were teachers and he came up to tell us how well our kids were behaving. He told us that after he retired from the Navy he taught in school for awhile and many of his kids were a PITA and would not behave. Course that was quite a few decades ago.

On the same trip, we had stopped at a restaurant for dinner and after we had been there for an hour or so, the manager came over and told us how wonderful are kids were behaving. She said they get buses of kids that are just terrors and run all of the restaurant.

These kids are far different than the kids I went to school with. They are far BETTER! There are kids in the school who have mental issues and the kids accept these kids and treat them very well. In my day, there is no way these kids would have survived in school. On the last trip, one of the kids with issues was playing in the dirt which is not "normal" behavior for a child at this age. For some reason, I am always assigned boys who are, shall we say, a bit energetic. A group of these "energetic" boys saw the other kid playing in the dirt and I was waiting for them to pick on him. Instead they talked with him like a human being. When I was a kid, that child would have been picked on mercilessly, and in that situation, they would have likely thrown dirt at that child.

Last years trip was for the eighth grade and this trip was a keystone event for the kids since they were moving to High School and they knew they were starting to leave their childhood behind. There was an event that took place at night in a round shelter with a fire in the middle. The kids could get up and talk about anything. They could complain or say what made them thankful. Its hard to explain what I saw over that few hours but it was the most emotional event I have ever seen. Some of the kids admitted to the group their drug issues they had delt with. Others kids were dealing with other issues. The kids were very thankful for their friends, teachers and parents. There were only three faculty on the trip, one of whom is VERY popular with the kids. Another teacher is very young, just out of college and has much to learn about life, teaching and kids but he is very popular as well. My child does not get along with this teacher and vice versa. My kid took the "open mike" opportunity to tell the teacher what they thought of him. What was funny is that the other kids agreed with what my child had to say.

This teacher, as many others at the school do, has a calling to teach. He really is a good teacher, he just turned 21, yes 21, and he has to learn a bit about kids, himself and teaching.

These kids are not perfect that is for sure but they are far better behaved, far more respectful of their peers, teachers, parents and others than the kids I went to school with many decades ago. I went to many schools in four states so I got a good education on a large number of schools/kids compared to most people. The kids at my children's school are very well behaved and growing into pretty dang mature kids young men and women.

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Old 11-20-2014, 10:53 AM   #68
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That is awesome that you and the children had that type of experience. I will tell you after working in public education for 10 years is that the grade school system is broken. Sure you get little bits here and there that work. For the most part, it is a tax payer drain that is nothing more than a glorified holding tank for kids while parents go to work. PERIOD!


I would take 18 new kids every year into an auto shop program. Fifty plus applicants every year of kids that wanted to be in this class. If I got 4 or 5 that were successful let alone interested it was great. Parents have become best friends instead of being parents...it trickles down all the way into the class room. No respect, no interest in learning, don't even challenge or look at them the wrong way.


I had a kid that told me my mother was a whore, never got in trouble. I had one physically assault me (trip me as I was coming through the doorway). I used some explicit language to describe how numb he was for doing that. I got written up. The entire school system should become privitized with federal funding based on merit. That would straighten ALOT of stuff out in a hurry including the kids
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:43 PM   #69
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Never met a kid raised boating that wasn't solid.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:07 PM   #70
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We don't allow kids on the boat, period.

Kids are not my problem. It's my inlaws. Specifically, brothers in laws.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:20 PM   #71
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In addition to my wife teaching, we got heavily involved with an orphanage, one of the few remaining since the regulations changed to push for foster parents an no orphanages. The experiences we've had with these kids is incredible. Another reason we don't have kids is that we don't want to choose just one but prefer our efforts with many. I can't imagine Christmas eve or Christmas morning without the kids at the orphanage. There are only around 30 kids living there now, but last year twice that many more returning there for Christmas.

We also were cruising the East Coast about 18 months ago and a small marina was having a "Day at the Lake" for underprivileged kids in the area. It was just a cookout and games, etc. We had no idea this was going on. We decided giving them each a boat ride would be nice. Another couple of owners agreed. Took them in small groups with parents and chaperones. Gave them all the rules in advance. If they enjoyed that day 20% as much as we did then they had a great time. They were curious so we'd explain things a couple at a time. Just a blast. And these were the kids that many would expect problems from. My wife only had to resort to her "Teacher voice" once all day.

Now I'm not by any means saying kids are right for all and if you don't like being around them then by all means don't. But don't put them down as a group. Yes, I see kids running wild in grocery stores and elsewhere. And i will calmly slow them down while separately addressing the parents more harshly as I do hate to see parents instilling habits of such behavior.

But the kids are still incredible on the whole while growing up in a world that presents far more challenges to each generation. I wish they all could have the childhoods they deserve. Children and children's causes are very close to our hearts. We were both robbed of our childhoods and wish somehow we could give them all the peace and love they should have. We've spent time with the most precious kids who have experienced horrors beyond imagination and yet shown love and safety, turn out so incredible.

So we don't have kids but our lives will never not include any. And it's not all for them. It's a need we have ourselves.

Not trying to push kids onto anyone, but we both will stand up for them.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:08 PM   #72
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The T-shirt given to Giggitoni yesterday has the same thought.
This one?
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Old 11-20-2014, 03:32 PM   #73
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This one?
That one...it's actually very important. Where we find it most important is "helping." Everyone wants to assist, especially docking. Our rule is that you stay where you are during the entire process and don't move around unless asked. It's like the airline "stay seated". Another place it often comes into play is when one can go to the bow. And the obvious is pfd's.
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Old 11-20-2014, 05:08 PM   #74
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Been there, done that, and have the same T-shirt, Giggitoni. I actually tell people standing on a dock, twice if necessary, that we prefer to handle our boat with the people IN the boat. There have been exceptions, just several, where we're glad someone was available on a dock.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:24 PM   #75
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[/QUOTE] It's based on what we see around us everywhere we go-- restaurants, stores, on planes, at airports, etc. Based on the behavior we see exhibited in these public places, today's kids-- by which I mean children up to their early teens perhaps--- for the most part appear to be a giant pain in the ass. The credit for which we give to the parents.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I blame the parents though. Also, with parents and kids, I am happy to see the occasional well behaved kids and skilled parents. They are out there! I gives me hope. Kids will always be welcome on my boat with very strict/sternly enforced rules.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:50 PM   #76
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Maybe it's a PNW thing. Kids cooped up all day protected from the rain. They finally get out of the house in public...parents too distracted from the effects of smoking weed to notice their kids are running amok. It all makes perfect sense now. (tongue firmly implanted in cheek!)

Or maybe, just maybe, it's an individual perspective thing. Those who choose a life without kids only notice kids at a distance who are disturbing their way of life. They don't acknowledge or appreciate well-behaved kids in their presence because they don't notice them. There are vast numbers of good kids out there, no doubt a majority, who are not making noise or the news and therefore fly well below the radar of those looking for "those damn kids." Sometimes you need to look beyond your narrow, controlled field of view to see what's really there.

I'm not faulting the individual here. If I didn't have kids, I probably wouldn't notice the great kids who my kids have brought into our lives. I can honestly say that in my best estimate, better than 95% of the youth I've been introduced to through my daughters would be welcome guests in my home and on my boat anytime. We thoroughly enjoy their company and admire their work and life ethics.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:51 PM   #77
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Or maybe, just maybe, it's an individual perspective thing. Those who choose a life without kids only notice kids at a distance who are disturbing their way of life. They don't acknowledge or appreciate well-behaved kids in their presence because they don't notice them.
That's probably a pretty accurate assessment, actually.

There is something I find quite interesting, though. Lately I've been around some early to mid 20-somethings. The aforementioned young couple who were with us for a couple of weeks in France as well as the grown children of current co-workers and friends I worked with in Hawaii who've moved here. Now, these are not kids, but are probably the equivelent of the children of most of the people on this forum.

And without exception, these people were pretty scathing in their assessments of today's kids, the pre-and early teens. They blasted them for having their heads buried in their phones 24/7/365, they blasted them for not being able to put together an original thought, for being unruly, rude and loud (which they tended to blame on the parents who weren't disciplining them at the time), they called them dumb, helpless, and in the case of one young man, called them the "do-you-want-fries-with-that generation." Sometimes these statements were accompanied by an emphatic, "There's no way in hell I'm ever going to have kids."

Now, I'm not a fan of today's kids, probably in large part for the reasons Al states above. But I and my wife--- and the parents of the 20-somethings in question--- were quite surprised to be hearing this assessment. I have no theories of why they feel this way, it was just an unexpected observation.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:56 PM   #78
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Maybe it's a PNW thing. Kids cooped up all day protected from the rain. They finally get out of the house in public...parents too distracted from the effects of smoking weed to notice their kids are running amok. It all makes perfect sense now. (tongue firmly implanted in cheek!)

I'm not faulting the individual here. If I didn't have kids, I probably wouldn't notice the great kids who my kids have brought into our lives. I can honestly say that in my best estimate, better than 95% of the youth I've been introduced to through my daughters would be welcome guests in my home and on my boat anytime. We thoroughly enjoy their company and admire their work and life ethics.
Great first paragraph! As for the second, I agree. I have two kids both in there 20's. Oldest out of trade school and now attending college. Second in college. My kids friends were always welcome in my home and seemed like great kids. As parents, every time we leave the house, we are judged by our peers and the world as we navigate the grocery stores, malls, parks, and any where else public. It's tough to get these outings right every time. If you have kids you know the reasons why. These public outings is where the majority of the viewing of spoiled rotten, unruley, out of control behavior is most commonly seen. When I see parents getting these outings right I know that the parents are doing a great job. Unfortunately I see the spoiled rotten out of control kids also but, I am able to spot the great parents and kids also. If people keep there eyes and ears open, they will see and hear more of the well behaved kids.

Kids are fantastic and are future. As I said before, they will always be welcome on my boat.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:43 PM   #79
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That's probably a pretty accurate assessment, actually.

There is something I find quite interesting, though. Lately I've been around some early to mid 20-somethings. The aforementioned young couple who were with us for a couple of weeks in France as well as the grown children of current co-workers and friends I worked with in Hawaii who've moved here. Now, these are not kids, but are probably the equivelent of the children of most of the people on this forum.

And without exception, these people were pretty scathing in their assessments of today's kids, the pre-and early teens. They blasted them for having their heads buried in their phones 24/7/365, they blasted them for not being able to put together an original thought, for being unruly, rude and loud (which they tended to blame on the parents who weren't disciplining them at the time), they called them dumb, helpless, and in the case of one young man, called them the "do-you-want-fries-with-that generation." Sometimes these statements were accompanied by an emphatic, "There's no way in hell I'm ever going to have kids."

Now, I'm not a fan of today's kids, probably in large part for the reasons Al states above. But I and my wife--- and the parents of the 20-somethings in question--- were quite surprised to be hearing this assessment. I have no theories of why they feel this way, it was just an unexpected observation.
It's very natural as soon as one thinks they've become adults to think negatively of those not there yet. They forget how recently they were just like that. As we age and become more experienced, we're generally not as critical.

In high schools the seniors think the freshmen are awful and immature. But in college the seniors think the college freshmen are coming and not matching up to the. In both cases they've quickly forgotten how they were three years ago.

Is being stuck to the phone annoying? Sometimes. But often we find ourselves stuck to it when we'd otherwise be waiting for someone impatiently. Older people may read the magazines in the doctor's office and younger read their phones or play with them.

Each group has it's things it overdoes or overuses compared to others. I can remember well when the fuss was all about kids and their video games and before that it was kids being stuck to their computers and never coming out of their rooms. I'm sure with our parents or grandparents depending on our ages, television got cursed in the same way.

Now it is up to parents to encourage their kids to balance things and there is where I do believe there's been a change over the last couple of decades. And it's not intentional. It's that parents are working more, are available for family activities less and for monitoring less and when available are more tired and less inclined to do those things.

I heard one parent complaining that after dinner all their daughter did was sit on the sofa using her phone, playing games, texting and posting. I asked what the parents were doing. The answer was that they were just watching the tv show. So they were basically doing the same thing on a different media. Actually the kids were having more social interaction. But the parents were not even attempting to engage the kids in interaction or to share a common activity. In fact, they admitted that sometimes their daughter would start to talk and they'd say, "we're watching the show" or "wait a minute."

Hasn't ever older sibling in history thought their younger sibling was bratty or otherwise not as mature as them? Well, of course, they are. They're younger.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:04 AM   #80
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There's nothing wrong with kids today although there might be something wrong with their parents .... you know ... the ones you raised.

My grand daughters (now 9 & 13) and some of their friends spend a lot of time on my boat and I enjoy every minute, they are bright, considerate, curious and just a whole lot of fun. I like to think I had some small measure in how they turned out because of the way my wife and I raised their fathers, two young men who I could not be more proud of.
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