Grand Banks v Defever

[Ralsy]

Hi all,
I have been looking for a Grand Banks Europa 46 but am now looking at alternatives and have found a listing for a Defever 50 Pilothouse. I haven't as yet viewed the boat and have at this stage only seen photos. The interior looks remarkably similar to the GB interior.
What are your thoughts on comparisons between the two.
Cheers and thanks for your thoughts.

 

[FF]

Would you rather have a Buick or an Oldsmobile ?

 

[Ralsy]

Don't know mate. I'm Australian.

 

[Ralsy]

I'm assuming that you might be indicating ones standard and the other is luxury?

 

[O C Diver]

I think he's inferring that they're both built by the same manufacturer (General Motors) with mostly a personal preference to the sub manufacturer.

Both boats were likely built in similar boatyards in Taiwan.

IMO, for boats of the same age, the quality will be similar. I would tend to focus more on layout and features.

Ted

 

[Ralsy]

Thanks Ted. I'm going to have a look at a 2007 DeFever Ocean Force 50 "Europa Style Motor Yacht". $100.000 cheaper than a GB

 

[O C Diver]

Thanks Ted. I'm going to have a look at a 2007 DeFever Ocean Force 50 "Europa Style Motor Yacht". $100.000 cheaper than a GB

IMO, at that age, the difference between 2 boats from these manufacturers will have more to do with how they were used (or abused), maintenance, and storage. Have seen both in Bristol condition and both that You couldn't pay me to take.

Ted

 

[Ralsy]

Interestingly I was informed by a boat broker;
That its very much dependant on the model and age, when it comes to Defever. Arthur Defever was a great designer, his son-in law ‘Sharp’ wasn’t as good. Arthur’s designs were the ones built in the 70’s and 80’s. Sharp started in the late 80’s early 90’s. The Defever’s built now look similar to some of Arthur’s boats but certainly not the same builder (or build quality in my opinion). If you’re comparing a GB 46 to a Defever than I’d buy the GB any day of the week.

 

[menzies]

What are your thoughts on comparisons between the two.

If you’re comparing a GB 46 to a Defever than I’d buy the GB any day of the week.

Seems like you already had the answer to your own question.

 

[Ralsy]

Had received it about 1 hour ago. Still only one opinion. Happy to hear others.

 

[ranger58sb]

Would you rather have a Buick or an Oldsmobile ?

Don't know mate. I'm Australian.

A Holden or a... hmm... I dunno what other GM brands you have there.



-Chris

 

[OldDan1943]

In my mind, the boat with the little or no exterior teak to maintain.

 

[FF]

The concept is boats (like autos) come in a variety of quality grades.

Abeking & Rasmussen (SP) is my lottery (big lottery!) choice.

On the bottom of many lists is the small Bayliner style, high production boats.

Comparing boats of similar place on the quality build list is done by what suits your taste, not "which is better" as better is undefined.

Look at both ends of the quality lines , some lower quality built boats are just fine for most uses.


Seldom for big blue water passage making , as ocean worthy scantlings are expensive to build.

 

[angus99]

IMO, at that age, the difference between 2 boats from these manufacturers will have more to do with how they were used (or abused), maintenance, and storage. Have seen both in Bristol condition and both that You couldn't pay me to take.

Ted

This.

You’ll hear endless kudos and some criticisms for these two brands—often from owners—but there’s no substitute for maintenance and no way to form an opinion without eyes on a particular vessel.

As for the alleged decline in Defever quality, I was on a 2014 Defever 50 last week and any decline was certainly well hidden. Arthur’s influence was everywhere apparent and the fit and finish were excellent.

 

[Ralsy]

Only holden in Australia I believe. Quality of build and finish is something I guess I'm asking about. I'm a newbie to buying larger boats so always good to do some research. I had a look at a 2005 Clipped 50 and on the same day a GB 46 EUROPA, and the difference in build quality was amazing. GB being a so much better build. Not just from a maintenance perspective. I'm sure that the brokers hate me as i open every conceivable door / cupboard and crawl around into all the normally out of view places with my torch and inspection mirror. ��

 

[Comodave]

Either boats are nice. I tend not to like GB as much because they usually have built in furniture and we like to have recliners due to back issues. Having said that if I were you I would not be as concerned as to which boat is a better boat but rather which boat fits your needs best and which boat is in better condition.

 

[Ralsy]

 

[Ralsy]

Trying to decide if we are going to make the 1200 mile trip. Need some more information
This particular Defever has been on the market for just over a year now.
Not sure if I mentioned that we're looking at living on board and renting out our house. My job allows me to work mostly mobile with an occasional office visit. So living out of a marina shouldn't be a problem.

 

[psneeld]

I could be wrong, but isn't a DeFever a design, built by many manufacturers/yards....and it depends which one to determine what the quality is? There was no distinctive builder?

 

[Insequent]

I could be wrong, but isn't a DeFever a design, built by many manufacturers/yards....and it depends which one to determine what the quality is? There was no distinctive builder?

Back in the day, way back, this was the case AFAIK. Just when it narrowed down to one or two builders I'm not sure.

Their is a De Fever dealer in Sydney https://www.q7marine.com.au/defever-yachts/ who has displayed boats at the Sanctuary Cove boat show. After one show there was a bit of discussion here on TF with some loving it but IIRC most not liking it. The concept is great, layout good etc but it was clearly built to a price point and it showed. I found it disappointing.

But boats are damned expensive so I can understand the need to keep build costs low if you want to sell them! It ought to be possible to get good quality at a good price, and it likely starts with very detailed planning and design by the NA. But POCTA missed the mark. In real estate you can see the same thing, sometimes a lot of money spent can still produce a poor result.

 

[Russell Clifton]

If the Defever is a pilot house model, then these two boats will be as different as night and day. The living area and the steering area will all be on the same level on the Grand Banks. Also, the furniture will all be built in so you have no choice how you would like to arrange it.

The Defever will have the pilot house raised higher than the living area, the master stateroom will be located below it, and if the furniture is built in, it is not that big of job to remove it. The Defever will have a much larger engine room too, and a cockpit making it easier to load groceries, etc.

I think you will be surprised on how much different they are.

 

[greysailor]

Their is a De Fever dealer in Sydney https://www.q7marine.com.au/defever-yachts/ who has displayed boats at the Sanctuary Cove boat show. After one show there was a bit of discussion here on TF with some loving it but IIRC most not liking it. The concept is great, layout good etc but it was clearly built to a price point and it showed. I found it disappointing.

......... But POCTA missed the mark. In real estate you can see the same thing, sometimes a lot of money spent can still produce a poor result.

Maybe it has something to do with the way the Australian dealer spec'd the boats, or didn't provide any oversite during the building process. I've been aboard a lot of POTCA built (and earlier) DeFevers here in the states before we bought our 2005 D44....Boils down to the old adage that the owner's attention to detail in maintenance is what determines the value of a boat!

 

[Comodave]

One of our deal breakers is built in furniture. We both have back issues and are really only comfortable in recliners. IF you are seriously considering the GB I would recommend that you go and sit in the built in furniture for at least a couple of hours, not just a couple of minutes and see if you will be comfortable long term sitting in very upright furniture. People don’t spend time sitting in the furniture when they are looking at a boat. But imagine sitting for a couple of hours reading a book or watching TV. You have to be able to sit comfortably if you are to enjoy your time on the boat.

 

[Codger2]

Having said that if I were you I would not be as concerned as to which boat is a better boat but rather which boat fits your needs best and which boat is in better condition.

 

[Bigsfish]

In full disclosure I own a GB and investigated changing a portion of the built in sofa to a recliner. Easy job according to carpenter I know but then I would lose storage under the built in seat plus the built in seats never need to be tied down in seas. Also the built in provides additional strength to the boat.

Which is best? I don’t know but so far I’m happy with built in but I know it is easy to change. Also there are two Stidds available to use as a faux recliner.

 

[koliver]

Hi all,
I have been looking for a Grand Banks Europa 46 but am now looking at alternatives and have found a listing for a Defever 50 Pilothouse. I haven't as yet viewed the boat and have at this stage only seen photos. The interior looks remarkably similar to the GB interior.
What are your thoughts on comparisons between the two.
Cheers and thanks for your thoughts.

Cabin width will be a big item. The GB has 14'11" total beam, the DeF 16'. GB has much wider side decks, so the GB will have fixed furniture in order to conserve space inside. The DeF, has at least 18" more interior width to play with.

 

[BruceK]

Ralsy, you haven`t posted the link so I won`t, though I think it may have appeared in "Interesting Boats". Though described as "pilothouse", the helm looks to be one level with the rest of the "salon"/living area cabin. Were I in the market for that size boat I`d definitely make the trip. I`m not sure you can generalize on build quality to that extent.
PS We were in Melbourne last weekend, looking at something smaller. It was arctic,take your warm clothes, if you have any up there. Though I see it`s in SA, just the broker in Victoria. Long trip home, via Bass Strait .

 

[Ralsy]

Nope, wheel house same level and furniture built in.

 

[menzies]

Nope, wheel house same level and furniture built in.

That's what he said.

Though described as "pilothouse", the helm looks to be one level with the rest of the "salon"/living area cabin.

 

[Comodave]

We have 2 Stressless recliners in our salon. We put an area carpet that is slightly larger than the bases of the recliners with a non skid pad under the carpet. The recliners have never moved in 6 to 8 foot seas. According to my wife we will never be intentionally be in anything bigger so movement of the furniture isn’t a problem for us. We also have a freestanding chest freezer next to them with a nonskid pad under it on the teak and holly deck and it has never moved either.