Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-01-2019, 09:24 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Capitaine R's Avatar
 
City: St James City
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Charlie Noble
Vessel Model: 32 Nordic Tug
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 191
Gov shutdown and Documentation

When we purchased the new to us Nordic Tug we promptly faxed off all the paper work needed to document the boat in our name. And of course we have no idea if the USCG actually got the paperwork, and now we have a Gov shutdown. I have also received an Email from the school I attended to acquire my Master Captains license stating that if your license needs to be renewed you should be aware that there is going to be a long wait. But you still need to get it in to their office on time. The school also said you can give the CG a call but they will just tell you nothing is being processed at this time. Luckily I do not need to renew this year. So now we are just hoping to get our new documentation by the time we need to bring the boat down to Florida in May, I know that is 4 1/2 months away but I just can't help thinking something on one of those USCG forms is wrong which will set us back another month or two.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
The best way to find out is get her out on the ocean, because if anything is going to happen it's going to happen out there.
"Captain Ron"
Capitaine R is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:21 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Roger Long's Avatar
 
City: Albany, NY
Country: Albany
Vessel Name: Gypsy Star
Vessel Model: Gulf Star 43
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 283
Good luck. In last shut downs, the NVDC seemed to build up 2-3 weeks of additional backlog for every week they were closed. We went through this with our last boat which we needed to move to a shipyard for some initial work. I tried to get the local USCG to agree that it was OK to transit with copies of our application and they would only say that it was up to the discretion of the boarding officer. I tried headquarters, BoatUS, and wasted hours. No one could get the USCG to commit that we would not get fined if boarded. This was just before documentation agents started issuing "Transit Letters" which state that they are processing the application. I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with these. It may be a way of the NVDC encouraging people to pay the few hundred dollars for hour of work it takes to do the application yourself. Having everything come from an outfit that does the applications constantly minimizes their time and effort in sending stuff back with mistakes or omissions. A large part of my business used to be submissions to the USCG for certificates of inspection, stability approval, etc. I know that submission packets that come from recognized professionals don’t “fall off the back of the desk” nearly as often as DIY submittals. We therefore used a service for our current boat since I knew we would have transited through many USCG districts before we saw our COD.

The “up to the discretion of the boarding officer” business really irks me. Why can’t they issue a policy? Another thing I know from my years of interaction with the Coast Guard is that, if a wet behind the ears or unreasonable line officer makes a boneheaded call, they will back him up 100% all the way to the highest levels of the appeals process. They may give him some guidance and advice later but they will never admit the mistake and will stick the poor mariner with the outcome. I know, I’ve flown to headquarters in DC and spent months getting stonewalled on some unimaginably stupid things. Unless there has been some cultural change in the 20 odd years since I stopped dealing with them, they will NEVER admit that a boarding officer did something dumb. Does anyone know of there is an actual USCG policy to back up the use of transit letter and application copies in lieu of a formal COD?

The USCG is also only part of the issue. It is also fully up to the discretion of the numerous local law enforcement whether they will consider you boat as being registered if a COD application is the only paperwork you have. Since fines generally accrue to the local agency and embellish monthly fitness reports, I’d hate to bet on an outcome. Those fines are generally manageable, however, unlike the $10,000 a day the USCG could hit you with.
__________________

__________________
Roger and Patsy
"Gypsy Star" Where are we?
https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...BunICxVztYVRlg
Roger Long is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:52 PM   #3
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post
The “up to the discretion of the boarding officer” business really irks me. Why can’t they issue a policy? .
A boarding officer who is also not currently being paid and has been told no pay increase in 2019 if he does start getting paid again. Right now, routine boardings of the nature you'd normally be concerned are greatly reduced.

It's a pain, but you and other boaters just have to do what you have to do. Carry copies of all submissions and you should be ok. I've never heard of anyone not being in all the years of the CG having a huge backlog.
BandB is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:56 PM   #4
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,130
As shutdowns have become common and as the USCG is not part of the military but Homeland Security so gets hit by them, I'd also suggest doing things earlier than normal. All those concerned that they were losing a month of documentation by filing their renewal early are probably happy now that they did.
BandB is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:02 PM   #5
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
... and as the USCG is not part of the military but Homeland Security so gets hit by them,

USCG is one of the 5 U.S. military branches.

But yes, they have a dual role as a law enforcement branch of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:04 PM   #6
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 640
I can’t register our new to us boat in our name. The boat is documented. I can’t even delete documentation to be able to register it in SC.

Really kind of crazy.
Steve91T is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:08 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Sabre602's Avatar
 
City: NW Washington State
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kingfisher
Vessel Model: 37' converted gillnetter/crabber
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
USCG is one of the 5 U.S. military branches.

But yes, they have a dual role as a law enforcement branch of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

-Chris
I think what was meant is that the Coast Guard is not under the Department of Defense, but is under the Department of Homeland Security (along with TSA, CBP, ICE, etc). Prior to the creation of DHS, the USCG was an agency under the Department of Transportation, not the Defense Department.
__________________
Anson & Donna

Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama
Sabre602 is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:12 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
gsholz's Avatar
 
City: PDX
Country: Northwest
Vessel Name: Lady Anne
Vessel Model: GB 52 Europa
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 131
We are just in the process of buying a boat. Would like to close in 2 weeks. We'll see what happens. I always assumed as long as you have a signed purchase agreement on board you should be ok moving the boat.
gsholz is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:17 PM   #9
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
USCG is one of the 5 U.S. military branches.

But yes, they have a dual role as a law enforcement branch of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

-Chris
Actually they are not now part of the military as they fall 100% under the Department of Homeland Security. They may be military in nature, but not in form. If they were part of the military branch and under the Department of Defense, they'd be working and getting paid.
BandB is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:19 PM   #10
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre602 View Post
I think what was meant is that the Coast Guard is not under the Department of Defense, but is under the Department of Homeland Security (along with TSA, CBP, ICE, etc). Prior to the creation of DHS, the USCG was an agency under the Department of Transportation, not the Defense Department.
Yes, I should have said more appropriately they are not part of the Department of Defense, which is where all other military branches are.
BandB is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:24 PM   #11
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,130
As it relates to documentation:

In the absence of an enacted appropriation or continuing resolution, the Coast Guard is required to execute an orderly suspension of some operations and activities. In general, the Coast Guard will continue operations authorized by law that provide for national security, or that protect life and property. The Coast Guard will perform these exempt functions and activities even during a lapse in appropriations. All non-exempt functions and activities must be suspended or terminated. The term “function” in this context is not synonymous with our statutory missions.

and

Managers and supervisors of appropriated fund civilian employees must report to work to conduct orderly shutdown on 26 December 2018.
BandB is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:29 PM   #12
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,130
As to licensing:

Due to the partial government shutdown, the National Maritime Center (NMC) and all Regional Exam Centers (RECs) are closed until further notice. Customer walk-in service is suspended. Examinations and other REC appointments are cancelled, and REC appointment calendars are closed. Applications may continue to be e-mailed or mailed in and will be processed when the shutdown is over. The Customer Service Center call center will be open from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. EST, Monday through Friday to answer any questions. You may reach the call center at 1-888-IASKNMC (427-5662) and IASKNMC@uscg.mil.
BandB is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 03:25 PM   #13
Member
 
City: Picayune
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Actually they are not now part of the military as they fall 100% under the Department of Homeland Security. They may be military in nature, but not in form. If they were part of the military branch and under the Department of Defense, they'd be working and getting paid.
The Coast Guard is indeed a branch of the Military. They have operated under Treasury, Transportation, and now Homeland Security always as a branch of he Military. Just because the funding for the Coast Guard does not come from the Department of Defense does not mean they are not a branch of the Military. How do you explain the issuance of a DD-214 "Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty" to departing members of the Coast Guard? How do you explain their eligibility for GI bill benefits? How do you explain all the Military Medals I earned during my 28.5 years of service in the Coast Guard? A quick internet search might be in order.
Philkoury is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 03:38 PM   #14
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,665
processing documentation has always been slow. A few weeks of shut down wont add much to the slow process.
bayview is online now  
Old 01-01-2019, 03:46 PM   #15
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 640
So do we get hit with fines?
Steve91T is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:09 PM   #16
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,429
Did you have a documentation service company handle your purchase? When we bought our current boat the service provided paperwork showing that the purchase had been sent to the documentation center. They said we could show it in case we were boarded.
Comodave is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:36 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Capitaine R's Avatar
 
City: St James City
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Charlie Noble
Vessel Model: 32 Nordic Tug
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Did you have a documentation service company handle your purchase? When we bought our current boat the service provided paperwork showing that the purchase had been sent to the documentation center. They said we could show it in case we were boarded.

I did not use a service, I wrongly thought I had plenty of time to get this done. The only paper I have is the CG bill of sale, the old Documentation from the PO, which will expire to soon, and copies of the paper work I sent.
__________________
The best way to find out is get her out on the ocean, because if anything is going to happen it's going to happen out there.
"Captain Ron"
Capitaine R is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:39 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Capitaine R's Avatar
 
City: St James City
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Charlie Noble
Vessel Model: 32 Nordic Tug
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philkoury View Post
The Coast Guard is indeed a branch of the Military. They have operated under Treasury, Transportation, and now Homeland Security always as a branch of he Military. Just because the funding for the Coast Guard does not come from the Department of Defense does not mean they are not a branch of the Military. How do you explain the issuance of a DD-214 "Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty" to departing members of the Coast Guard? How do you explain their eligibility for GI bill benefits? How do you explain all the Military Medals I earned during my 28.5 years of service in the Coast Guard? A quick internet search might be in order.

Thanks for 28.5 years of your service.


Do you have any friends there you can call and get our Documentation paperwork put on the top of the pile.
__________________
The best way to find out is get her out on the ocean, because if anything is going to happen it's going to happen out there.
"Captain Ron"
Capitaine R is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:40 PM   #19
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,403
If/when the shutdown ends, do the employees who stayed at work get back pay?
We have a different way of dealing with "Supply"(of money) issues. It worked, spectacularly, the one time I recall it being invoked.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:45 PM   #20
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitaine R View Post
I did not use a service, I wrongly thought I had plenty of time to get this done. The only paper I have is the CG bill of sale, the old Documentation from the PO, which will expire to soon, and copies of the paper work I sent.
Although not a guarantee, I think you will be good with that paperwork.
__________________

Comodave is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012