Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-26-2014, 11:13 AM   #21
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,787
There is some truth in both sides of this discussion. No one has ever said I was a big government proponent. I have taught basic boating classes every year for a generation. My take is that something should be done.

I have taught classes where the owner of a 46 foot planing boat did not know what the green and red things in the water meant other than to go between them. He was taking the course for insurance reasons. I have seen student after student shocked to hear that one should limit one's time on the VHF hailing channel to hailing only and then switch. Propane tanks on a boat and ventilation for gas inboard engines were other favorites for pure ignorance. What are the right of way rules (what right of way rules?). Anyone who has taught a basic boating course can tell story after story, the new stories never end.

I followed what was done in Canada requiring permit/licenses and knew from the beginning that sooner or later the United States would follow suit. My hope is that it will be effective.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 11:14 AM   #22
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Well perhaps we should get rid of drivers licenses, pilots licenses, plumber and electricians licenses and quit licensing doctors as well.

One of the legitimate functions of government is protecting its citizens. Not just from foreign enemies but from other citizens. By requiring drivers, pilots and hopefully boaters to demonstrate competence or at least a knowledge of the rules and safety practices, the government is protecting me from their carelessness.

It's not perfect, just as the drivers license requirement is not perfect but it is a step in the right direction. If you can pass the test, it's not an inconvenience for you and it may save your boat or your life.
Ron I guess my point is that the card is not addressing the actual handling of a boat. The card is not addressing the types of vessel one is "qualified" to run. Its kinda scary seeing a 45' 450 HP twin engine cruiser running up behind you in close quarters , knowing full well the guy behind the helm has like 40 hours total running boats. Here the "card" can be obtained by folk that are unable to speak English. I have still never received a solid answer as to how a Mayday can be handled. Just a couple of examples.

Maybe some sort of graduated license would be more in order.

Again just random thoughts.
__________________

OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 11:23 AM   #23
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by OFB View Post
Ron I guess my point is that the card is not addressing the actual handling of a boat. The card is not addressing the types of vessel one is "qualified" to run. Its kinda scary seeing a 45' 450 HP twin engine cruiser running up behind you in close quarters , knowing full well the guy behind the helm has like 40 hours total running boats. Here the "card" can be obtained by folk that are unable to speak English. I have still never received a solid answer as to how a Mayday can be handled. Just a couple of examples.

Maybe some sort of graduated license would be more in order.

Again just random thoughts.
Agree. Licenses, for the most part, are a state money grab. If gov. moonbat's state of CA can find a way to bring in more money, they will do it. States that have licensing requirements do not seem to have better accident records. Swift, harsh, & complete punishment of existing lawbreakers seems a better answer.
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 11:51 AM   #24
Veteran Member
 
MyBad's Avatar
 
City: Calif Delta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 34' Tollycraft Sedan
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 45
Well by the time they fully "phase" in all Calif boaters. it will be 2025. That is a long time for any real, or imagined results.

Quote:
This requirement will be a phased in by age:
  • Starting January 1, 2018, boat operators < 20 years old
  • January 1, 2019, boat operators <25 years old
  • January 1, 2020, boat operators <35 years old
  • January 1, 2021, boat operators <40 years old
  • January 1, 2022, boat operators <45 years old
  • January 1, 2023, boat operators <50 years old
  • January 1, 2024, boat operators <60 years old
  • January 1, 2025, all boater operators regardless of age

__________________
"What Me Worry."
MyBad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 12:04 PM   #25
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooksie View Post
Agree. Licenses, for the most part, are a state money grab. If gov. moonbat's state of CA can find a way to bring in more money, they will do it. States that have licensing requirements do not seem to have better accident records. Swift, harsh, & complete punishment of existing lawbreakers seems a better answer.

Actually they aren't a money grab everywhere.

In NJ (the tax state) I think only $5 of the course went to the state at most to defray the paperwork costs.

My guess if the courses are run for less than $50/person in your state, and it's being taught by private providers, I doubt the state is getting much at all.

It may even be a federal funding issue...that states aren't allowed to make it a tax...just cover fees.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 01:45 PM   #26
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Actually they aren't a money grab everywhere.

In NJ (the tax state) I think only $5 of the course went to the state at most to defray the paperwork costs.

My guess if the courses are run for less than $50/person in your state, and it's being taught by private providers, I doubt the state is getting much at all.

It may even be a federal funding issue...that states aren't allowed to make it a tax...just cover fees.
Yes and no.
There is a ton of motivation to collect tax on that 45 foot twin powered yacht, even with the knowledge that the guy making the purchase has zero experience running it. That card is not addressing this issue.

Again just random thoughts.

Like you I live aboard and run around helping folk. The card is not improving my pleasure cruising experience. I am suggesting the "card" is actually giving folk some sort of false scents of abilities.

Again just some random thoughts.

Just trying to create some sort of order in my own head. You have to laugh.
OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 02:28 PM   #27
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 954
Not a money grab yet in NJ maybe. But first they have to get their foot in the door. Anything the state gets involved in eventually becomes a fiefdom of bureaucrats feeding on the public. That moron that drowned the 2 kids in NJ could have had a license and it would not have prevented him from overloading and putting 10 POB his flying bridge, then blaming the boatbuilder. Putting him in prison would be more effective than issuing expensive pieces of paper.
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 02:51 PM   #28
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
You guys please try not to turn this into a political discussion. **stares right at Brookie for starting this tangent** There is a good discussion going on. If it turns political, it goes away ;-)
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 03:52 PM   #29
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,226
The thing to remember is the legislature in any state or the members of the U.S. Congress don't think new laws up on their own. Someone is lobbying them to pass it in this case insurance companies, law enforcement organizations, BoatUS or similar organizations that are interested in education of boaters.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 03:59 PM   #30
Guru
 
kthoennes's Avatar
 
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 857
Oh, that's not nececessarily true River Cruiser. The recent federal decision to go to annual renewal fees for fed documented vessels - overwhelming public opposition but the agency did it anyway. Here in South Dakota we used to register boats for two years. They recently reduced it to every year and increased the fees. No lobbyists or public pressure for those, all about higher agency revenues, initiated by the agencies themselves.
kthoennes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 04:06 PM   #31
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
IF I was a resident of CT , mu USCG 100T endorsement would not allow me to drive my dink.

I must pass a CT test.......
Not so in Alabama. Exemptions: "....... Operators of commercial fishing vessels or who are engaged in other valid commercial activity are not required to obtain boater safety certification."
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 04:07 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Boydster's Avatar
 
City: Squamish, B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Change of Heart
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by OFB View Post
Its an honest try, maybe it might even keep a few folk from getting into the "sport"

But we have had the PCOC here in BC for a while. I am not seeing any benefit on the water ways I live on, play on, and work on.

More recently the fellow that now teaches the Fraser power squadron is not only incompetent in the operation of any water craft but he is simply dangerous behind the helm of anything. Boggles the mind. But he is unwilling to take a few boat rides with me, so I just shake my head and fend off!

My point , be aware be safe, be respectful can help ensure some fun when pleasure cruising. The license or written proof of competency just don't seem to be doing the trick.

Worth the try I guess.

All IMO
Great, now I have to find my copy of the Power Squadron roster to see who's in charge of the Fraser group. ;-)
__________________
Everything on your boat is broken...you just don't know about it yet.
Boydster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 04:10 PM   #33
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,226
The increase in fees is a exception, the government entity over that particular active is most likely where the idea originates because of a need for funds or a perceived need. Nothing is free if the boating public wants launch ramps, pump out stations or public docks the Benjamins have to be raised from some source. People who don't own a boat aren't going to pay for them thru their property taxes.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 04:54 PM   #34
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
The US Power Squadron was giving a boaters safety course 2 weeks ago about 1 1/2 hours away from where we are in Al. We didn't need the course - A) because we were old enough that Al. law didn't require it and B) because I use to have a 100 Ton Masters. I talked my wife into it and told her I would go also. It was an 8AM to 5PM type of class they give which is recognized by most if not all states that require licensing. She has been boating with me for well over 20 years and yet she said she learned a lot. It was a fun day and worth the time and effort. You would be amazed at how many boaters don't know what the significance of lights are, or channel markers are, or who has the right-of-way, etc. I'm sure some of you debate the term right-of-way with stand-on or privaledged, so be it. At least when we say right-of-way, people get the idea of the meaning.

What surprises me on this forum is that many of you that are against this licensing are also the ones that complain about unknowledgeable boaters and what a hazard they are. Will the law prevent all accidents? Certainly not, but it will reduce them.

If you don't believe in licensing, don't bother going to a hospital in an emergency, just grab anyone off the street to help you.
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 05:14 PM   #35
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
I had to study rules and pass written and practical tests to get my driver's license. I had to learn a ton of stuff, spend hours with instructors, and pass written and practical tests to get my Private, Commercial, Instrument, Flight instructor, and Seaplane pilot licences/ratings.

I am just fine with the idea that individuals should have to study and learn stuff and pass written and practical tests to obtain a boat operator's licence.

I see nothing that makes a boat any less potentially harmful and dangerous in the hands of an ignorant, unskilled operator than a vehicle or aircraft.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 05:20 PM   #36
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
+! to Marin
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 05:20 PM   #37
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
You guys please try not to turn this into a political discussion. **stares right at Brookie for starting this tangent** There is a good discussion going on. If it turns political, it goes away ;-)

OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #38
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,226
Taking a boater training course a few years ago saves me about $50.00 to $100.00 per year in insurance premiums.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 07:10 PM   #39
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyDawg86 View Post
How's that so? It's a federal license. Va allows guys who have a license to bypass that class.


And being given a license doesn't prevent accidents, but knowing what to do and what not to do is half the battle. How much would you know if you didn't take a driving class before you started driving?
Hell-of-a-lot, in my case.
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 07:39 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Tunajoe's Avatar
 
City: Ventura
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tatanka
Vessel Model: 32' Nordic Tug
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 216
Quote:

If you don't believe in licensing, don't bother going to a hospital in an emergency, just grab anyone off the street to help you.
Well, lets think about that for a minute.

Once I graduated dental school I had to take the California State Licensing exam where there was a 50% failure rate due to its subjective nature (BTW, I passed first try ). Do you think the 50% that failed were unqualified or unsafe? They graduated from an accredited dental school and passed their National boards.
When they took the California test the second time and passed, did they magically become safe?
__________________

Tunajoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012