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Old 12-18-2017, 06:37 AM   #1
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Good book!

I donít remember who on TF recommended this book, but it was a fun read! Thanks!

Iíve only navigated using GPS and never put too much thought into the difficulty earlier voyagers had with longitude. I get it now.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:35 PM   #2
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Agree...
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:37 PM   #3
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Yup, a great read!
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Old 12-22-2017, 03:01 PM   #4
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Very good read - yep, longitude was the Holy Grail
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:17 PM   #5
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couldn't they just look it up on their garmin or their cell phone ??

Its pretty amazing when you think about the people who headed out to sea in hand made boats before:

Radar
GPS ( or Loran )
Charts ( all those rocks that are just below the surface....)
Weather predictions
VHF
EPIRB
PFD ( I guess they wouldn't help...since there's no one to rescue you )

I don't like to boat at night in a new area.....and these explorers would go to places no one had ever been before...with out any idea of the rocks or reefs, currents, etc....not knowing if there was a hurricane or tropical storm bearing down on them..... These people had just the right mix of courage, insanity, and naivety to just go for it. Wow.

If anyone is looking for another good read.....anything dealing with life of Earnest Shackleton is a good read.
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:48 PM   #6
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I just read Longitude. I don't know how those old sailing ships stayed afloat with all the weight of the big brass ones those sailors had.
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
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If anyone is looking for another good read.....anything dealing with life of Earnest Shackleton is a good read.
Yup.

I'm sitting cozy up on deck at my winter place in baja, and every year I reread Shackelton's saga south with the Endurance down here.

The navigation feat those guys pulled off to hit the islands is equivalent to bringing back Apollo 13.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:00 PM   #8
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Of all the Polar Explorer journeys, The Endurance/Shackleton story is my favorite as well. It is truly amazing to read about the pain and hardship these men absorbed.

I will check out the Longitude book.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
couldn't they just look it up on their garmin or their cell phone ??

Its pretty amazing when you think about the people who headed out to sea in hand made boats before:

Radar
GPS ( or Loran )
Charts ( all those rocks that are just below the surface....)
Weather predictions
VHF
EPIRB
PFD ( I guess they wouldn't help...since there's no one to rescue you )

I don't like to boat at night in a new area.....and these explorers would go to places no one had ever been before...with out any idea of the rocks or reefs, currents, etc....not knowing if there was a hurricane or tropical storm bearing down on them..... These people had just the right mix of courage, insanity, and naivety to just go for it. Wow.

If anyone is looking for another good read.....anything dealing with life of Earnest Shackleton is a good read.
I hope you realize that quite a few here on this forum sailed or flew in the far corners of this planet with just a compass, clock and chart.

In the 70s and 80s, pre GPS and small radars....LORAN not always useful, etc.... a few navigated one leg up from Columbus...and we all know how screwed up his true nav was.

When I was flying in Alaska in the early 90s, even the aeronautical charts still had some islands in the Aleutians as "terrain data not available".

The weather forecasts in Antartica were the reports we had sent the day before.

Real cushy everything global has only come together in the last 20 or so years.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:22 PM   #10
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I bought the Endurance book on Audible Books and started listening to it on the boat. I was instantly captivated and continued it with the Admiral on a car trip. We'd hurry back onto the road after each refueling stop to pick up the story. Made the trip go fast! Absolutely amazing feats of courage and motivation. Shackleton was a truly amazing man.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:32 PM   #11
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The Shackleton voyage rivaled Blighs but didnt get decent recognition for a long time.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:45 PM   #12
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The weather forecasts in Antartica were the reports we had sent the day before.
You know you're alone when this happens!

The difference between those of us who learned without all the gee-whiz electronics and those who've always had it shows when the automation stops working.

I went to an annual Christmas Party at my old Flight Check office today and got to catch up with the old gang. I learned of the shift in airspace use in Southern CA to extensive automated GPS nav from enroute to the gate including new runway encroachment protections from other on-airport radar systems.

One Flight Check pilot told the story of an extensive GPS jamming session that wreaked havoc in the airspace for 20 minutes or so while he was departing Santa Monica in Southern CA. Pilots were whining on the frequency about being assigned low altitude airway and high altitude jet route routing using ground-based transmitters only. Very few of the airborne air carrier or corporate/civilian crews were prepared to revert to ground-based nav systems and did not carry paper charts to be able to quickly identify the navaid frequencies. Each pilot had an iPad but it took a while for them to be able to change gears.

Tom had his radios set up for the local navaids (he was always a stickler for that...) and with his local knowledge and familiarity of the ATC system he quickly and painlessly altered his plan with ATC and continued on away from the mayhem.

When the shit hits the fan, if you don't have familiarity with an area, what are you going to do?

I think there's a lesson there for boaters and pilots everywhere. Lucky for us, things don't happen on a trawler as fast as they do in a Learjet 60.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:15 PM   #13
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8

I hope you realize that quite a few here on this forum sailed or flew in the far corners of this planet with just a compass, clock and chart.

.
I do realize that. And I fondly remember sessions with my father and a set of parallel rules and dividers, plotting routes and doing things "old school".

I am not saying I could do what captains did 50 years ago...only that I can appreicate it. And when I think of what captains did 100 years ago, I am in total awe.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:22 PM   #14
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you know you're alone when this happens!

The difference between those of us who learned without all the gee-whiz electronics and those who've always had it shows when the automation stops working.

I went to an annual christmas party at my old flight check office today and got to catch up with the old gang. I learned of the shift in airspace use in southern ca to extensive automated gps nav from enroute to the gate including new runway encroachment protections from other on-airport radar systems.

One flight check pilot told the story of an extensive gps jamming session that wreaked havoc in the airspace for 20 minutes or so while he was departing santa monica in southern ca. Pilots were whining on the frequency about being assigned low altitude airway and high altitude jet route routing using ground-based transmitters only. Very few of the airborne air carrier or corporate/civilian crews were prepared to revert to ground-based nav systems and did not carry paper charts to be able to quickly identify the navaid frequencies. Each pilot had an ipad but it took a while for them to be able to change gears.

Tom had his radios set up for the local navaids (he was always a stickler for that...) and with his local knowledge and familiarity of the atc system he quickly and painlessly altered his plan with atc and continued on away from the mayhem.

When the shit hits the fan, if you don't have familiarity with an area, what are you going to do?

I think there's a lesson there for boaters and pilots everywhere. Lucky for us, things don't happen on a trawler as fast as they do in a learjet 60.
pta pt p ....
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:26 PM   #15
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pta pt p ....
??
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:53 PM   #16
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.... the difficulty earlier voyagers had with longitude. I get it now.
Attachment 71338
There is a marvelous two-episode English TV program of the same name, though the story is told in a different manner than Sobel's book. Stars Jeremy Irons and Stephen Fry, among others.

For me, the best part was watching Mr. Harrison's clock #1 in motion.

Amazon has it used for $19; money well spent. (I've already got mine )
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:10 AM   #17
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??
Position time altitude, position time, position.......

Remember reporting requirements for mandatiry rrporting points in a non radar contact environment?

Classic simulator check ride.......takeoff in the dark, instuctor immediately tells you radar contact is lost on a low altitude airway. Probably the biggest PIA in my helo flying.....figuring those position ETAs in the dark, on your kneeboard with a red flashlight and aviation circular sliderule.....all the while assisting the pilot through several emergencies timed perfectly to interrupt your cakculations.....


I would have rather been flying in a real storm at sea.....
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:11 AM   #18
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Of course! Non-radar position reports over compulsory fixes. Haven't thought of them for a long time.

Yes, lots of fun in the simulators. I actually enjoyed the sim sessions. They really tested our limits and taught us new lessons about the aircraft and ourselves. I'd rather make the mistakes in the box than in the plane.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:31 AM   #19
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There is a marvelous two-episode English TV program of the same name, though the story is told in a different manner than Sobel's book. Stars Jeremy Irons and Stephen Fry, among others.

For me, the best part was watching Mr. Harrison's clock #1 in motion.

Amazon has it used for $19; money well spent. (I've already got mine )
Yes, excellent! Got it from the library.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:27 AM   #20
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Of course! Non-radar position reports over compulsory fixes. Haven't thought of them for a long time.
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