Going Back??

[jimisbell]

My "dripless" seal is leaking like a sieve. Next week I will haul the boat and replace or refurbish it. I am thinking that removing it entirely and replacing with the old style packing box would be an improvement.


1) dont have to replace it every 5 years!


2) Can replace the packing while in the water.


3) Much cheaper to maintain and no adjustments


4) Drill and place a zerk fitting so a squirt of grease is the only maintenance at the end of each run.



What am I missing here? I cant imagine why anyone would want a failure prone, difficult to maintain and 5 year lifetime seal?


BUT the question is, what was removed and would have to be sourced new when they converted? I am sure the Mainship Mk1 didnt come with a dripless seal 40 years ago.

 

[Lou_tribal]

My "dripless" seal is leaking like a sieve. Next week I will haul the boat and replace or refurbish it. I am thinking that removing it entirely and replacing with the old style packing box would be an improvement.


1) dont have to replace it every 5 years!


2) Can replace the packing while in the water.


3) Much cheaper to maintain and no adjustments


4) Drill and place a zerk fitting so a squirt of grease is the only maintenance at the end of each run.



What am I missing here? I cant imagine why anyone would want a failure prone, difficult to maintain and 5 year lifetime seal?


BUT the question is, what was removed and would have to be sourced new when they converted? I am sure the Mainship Mk1 didnt come with a dripless seal 40 years ago.

Dry bilge may be an answer.

L

 

[jimisbell]

Well, I have heard all that "dry bilge" stuff and wondered about the attraction. In over 50 years of messing around with boats I have never had dry bilge. Is a dry bilge to be desired?

 

[Nomad Willy]

jimisbell,
If faced that recently and stayed w the dripless.

Remember the packing gland acts like another bearing so it will need to be aligned as if it was. A misalignment can cause it to run hot. If it’s aligned too low it can put pressure on the stern bearing causing heat and excessive wear there too.

By contrast the dripless is almost entirely self aligning and shouldn’t cause any alignment problems. Since yours is already installed it should be aligned. I’d check before moving fwd. Alignment is obviously more important w the stuffing box.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Well, I have heard all that "dry bilge" stuff and wondered about the attraction. In over 50 years of messing around with boats I have never had dry bilge. Is a dary bilge to be desired?

I would say that’s a wood boat question.
With plastic it’s not important at all. However it would introducing moisture low in the inside of the boat. Could be a mould or corrosion issue. My bilge has a low spot where the water in the bilge goes and only presents about 1/3 of a square foot of water. My bilge pump sump intakes are galvanized and have considerable rust and corrosion. But nobody see’s them but me.

 

[LaBomba]

I would never be motivated to move from packing to dripless since in our last boat I had repacked with Gore 100% GFO and I actually had a dry bilge with little to no leaking and it never ran hot. If I had dripless already however I am not sure that I would go to the trouble of changing it back. Tough call.

 

[AusCan]

Unless it is a simple fix, or you are obsessed with a dry bilge, I'd consider going back to a quality packing system. I like to keep things simple unless the alternative offers significant advantages.

A bit of water in the bilge doesn't bother me, unless I drop something in it. A few years ago I lost a 2 day old Samsung phone was while checking the oil. Since then I've installed a perforated cover over the sump in the bilge which catches any dropped phones or bolts or pistachio shells that could jam up the bilge pump. Simple fix.

 

[twistedtree]

Just curious, which dripless seal do you have?

 

[Wxx3]

Unless it is a simple fix, or you are obsessed with a dry bilge, I'd consider going back to a quality packing system. I like to keep things simple unless the alternative offers significant advantages.

A bit of water in the bilge doesn't bother me, unless I drop something in it. A few years ago I lost a 2 day old Samsung phone was while checking the oil. Since then I've installed a perforated cover over the sump in the bilge which catches any dropped phones or bolts or pistachio shells that could jam up the bilge pump. Simple fix.

Great idea.
i also like having some water in the bilge as I want the bilge pump to be exercised routinely.

 

[sunchaser]

My "dripless" seal is leaking like a sieve. .

Jim
A bit of history on your current seal would be helpful. Such as when installed, by who, brand and what caused the current leakage. Also, the condition of the shaft around the current seal area should be determined. Some vessels cannot get a good seal with any type of packing due to shaft damage. This damage can be caused by boating in gritty water, corrosion, age, erosion or shaft metallurgy.

 

[DDW]

I think you will want to understand why the dripless you have doesn't work, before you replace it with anything else. A good, properly installed dripless seal will work for a decade or two, without leaking and without maintenance. If you have a cheap or off brand dripless, then all bets are off. If you have a bent or misaligned shaft, worn out engine mounts, or a few other maladies all betts are off. But the same is true for a stuffing box too.

The last PYI I had was on a sailboat, 15 years on it was still dripless when I sold the boat. The trawler has a Tides, now 12 years and dripless. Neither required any maintenance. The PYI surfaces will stick together after a long period of non-use, it is a good idea to nudge it by hand before operation, which takes 30 seconds.

 

[kchace]

I think a dry bilge is mostly a matter of preference, but if a (properly) dripping packing gland is all that's keeping a boat from having a dry bilge placing a small plastic tub under it is the solution. I have done this on my twins and it works great. Only have to empty them 2-3 times a year.

Ken

 

[Nomad Willy]

Unless it is a simple fix, or you are obsessed with a dry bilge, I'd consider going back to a quality packing system. I like to keep things simple unless the alternative offers significant advantages.

A bit of water in the bilge doesn't bother me, unless I drop something in it. A few years ago I lost a 2 day old Samsung phone was while checking the oil. Since then I've installed a perforated cover over the sump in the bilge which catches any dropped phones or bolts or pistachio shells that could jam up the bilge pump. Simple fix.

So now you drop your phone in other places ....

 

[jimisbell]

I would say that’s a wood boat question.
With plastic it’s not important at all.

I did have a 31 foot wooden sloop (1000 pound lead keel) sink in 300 feet of water (not recoverable) because of rot in the bilge....yes.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. AC. You have a PHONE in your engine space???? Wow. I'm impressed but I can't figure out how it fell off the bulkhead unless you used substandard fasteners...

 

[Heron]

. A good, properly installed dripless seal will work for a decade or two, without leaking and without maintenance. If you have a cheap or off brand dripless, then all bets are off. If you have a bent or misaligned shaft, worn out engine mounts, or a few other maladies all betts are off. But the same is true for a stuffing box too.

.

14 years on my PYI with NO maintenance and NO issues...

 

[Nomad Willy]

I did have a 31 foot wooden sloop (1000 pound lead keel) sink in 300 feet of water (not recoverable) because of rot in the bilge....yes.

Sounds like a freshwater job to me.
The salt in seawater usually keeps wood boats from rotting below the WL.
Decks, cabin and gunnels not so much.

 

[jimisbell]

Sounds like a freshwater job to me.
The salt in seawater usually keeps wood boats from rotting below the WL.
Decks, cabin and gunnels not so much.

Yes, it was on lake Travis, TX. I sold the boat several years earlier and the new owner did not keep the bilge dry. Rainwater got in....duhhhh.....and it sank in the deep water near the dam.


I have solved my problem on the Mainship 34. I finally spent two hours getting to where I could take a picture and feel around a bit. Its an old fashioned stuffing box and is leaking very fast at the shaft/nut interface. Not dangerous, and easily fixable, in the water. No haulout needed. It was a good morning when I discovered it was a packing box. I dont like new fangled inventions!!! I now know it wont sink overnight!!!!



But its in a close area and getting a wrench on the locking nut is proving difficult. Its going to need lots of PB Blaster and elbow grease to free it up. AND I discovered a secondary problem that I would not otherwise have found. The Automatic position on the bilge pump switch is NOT WORKING!!! Good "catch". Maybe just a fouled float switch.

 

[foreverunderway]

To me it makes no sense to have a piece of equipment aboard that could cause your boat to sink, that requires a haul out if it fails. I wouldn't hesitate to go back to the stuffing box with flax or Teflon packing.

 

[Mako]

I used to think that a dripless gland was the way to go these days, but after numerous discussions with commercial shipyards these last few years I have yet to find one who would build a boat with anything but a traditional packing gland.

However I understand that if you have a cooling water feed to it then you can install the new materials tight, and therefore be almost-drip free. A small catch pan draining to a sump solves that small amount.

 

[jimisbell]

By installing a grease fitting at the end of the "box" just seaward of the packing and using Marine Grease to put one squeeze of grease in at the end of the day, you will have a traditional shaft log AND dripless seal. Cost= 30 minutes and $2 https://www.sailboat-cruising.com/creating-a-dripless...

 

[rgano]

Started with a wooden trawler and a unique set of two shaft packings which used o-rings either side of a grease fitting. Messy, and my mild steel fuel tanks were getting a mist of saltwater on them until I added some big Plexiglas shields, but still, you have a mist around a bunch of steel engines/tanks/etc. Switched to Lasdrop dripless and loved them for fifteen years. What is this about 5-year interval replacement? Never needed such. Out of an abundance of caution I shifted to the beefier PYI brand, and they went a lot more years until I sold the boat. These were "face" seal types. The Tides dripless I have on this boat is a "lip" seal type, a design I am not so enchanted with, but is doing well at 12 years. BTW, the Tides seal has a spare seal already on the shaft ready to slide into place and in a protective cover.

 

[jimisbell]

Started with a wooden trawler and a unique set of two shaft packings which used o-rings either side of a grease fitting. Messy, and my mild steel fuel tanks were getting a mist of saltwater on them until I added some big Plexiglas shields, but still, you have a mist around a bunch of steel engines/tanks/etc.

This is not the norm for a traditional stuffing box. Normally there is no leakage when under way and only a drip when stopped that is normally fixed by a 1/4 turn on the packing gland nut.

Switched to Lasdrop dripless and loved them for fifteen years. What is this about 5-year interval replacement?

The manufacturers of one of the big name brands recommends this!

BTW, the Tides seal has a spare seal already on the shaft ready to slide into place and in a protective cover.

Must mean they expect a failure....LOL and the after that failure you have to haul the boat to replace the spare...or you dont have a spare...so you only save the FIRST haul after that you haul it every time you use the spare.

 

[adornato]

dripless packaging

in my opinion the dripless packing is an necessary cost and risk to my boat
You are depending upon a rubber bellows to keep your boat from sinking
It all sounded great till I read the receipts from my boat and noted that there was an emergency call out late one night because the dripless Bellows was leaking

The person who wrote that he has had a dripless for 14 years without maintenance is a very lucky man if you read the instructions from the PYI people you should be changing the Bellows every six years
my old Krogen had a conventional flax and I could change it in the water and the small amount of drip was nothing

Now I have the dripless on my saber which requires a water source spraying water on it to keep it cool with lots of hose connections and some spray with salt around the bilge
Dripless Shaft Seal is a solution without a problem

 

[rgano]

When you are often up close and personal with a properly installed bellows where it is cooled and not wobbling around all over the place, there is no danger of it suddenly failing, and it is obviously quite safe to continue in use. It is not exposed to sun and harsh chemicals in its properly installed state and unlikely to deteriorate.

I see from the comments that this discussion has devolved into a "religious" discussion where some have made snarky comments and withdrawn to a corner of hardened opinion based on hearsay and short personal experience; so have a nice wet bilge cuz I'm out.

 

[jimisbell]

When you are often up close and personal with a properly installed bellows where it is cooled and not wobbling around all over the place, there is no danger of it suddenly failing, and it is obviously quite safe to continue in use. It is not exposed to sun and harsh chemicals in its properly installed state and unlikely to deteriorate.

I see from the comments that this discussion has devolved into a "religious" discussion where some have made snarky comments and withdrawn to a corner of hardened opinion based on hearsay and short personal experience; so have a nice wet bilge cuz I'm out.

No more arguments after manuf recommended replacement in 6 years?



BTW I dont think 60 years is a short experience. Rgano, dont get too complacent about that forever seal and have a very loud High Water Alarm. I personally saw one almost sink.

 

[koliver]

My "dripless" seal is leaking like a sieve. Next week I will haul the boat and replace or refurbish it. I am thinking that removing it entirely and replacing with the old style packing box would be an improvement.


1) dont have to replace it every 5 years!


2) Can replace the packing while in the water.


3) Much cheaper to maintain and no adjustments


4) Drill and place a zerk fitting so a squirt of grease is the only maintenance at the end of each run.



What am I missing here? I cant imagine why anyone would want a failure prone, difficult to maintain and 5 year lifetime seal?


BUT the question is, what was removed and would have to be sourced new when they converted? I am sure the Mainship Mk1 didnt come with a dripless seal 40 years ago.

Last year, again this year, I was present for a failure of a dripless type seal on a sailboat. The first one I know the owner. He had something drop into his bilge while under way on the engine, which wrapped around the bellows of the dripless seal and tore those bellows. Water coming in was more than his bilge pump could handle. Luckily he was able to return to the marina and get help. There was a diver present who was able to stuff some cloth around the shaft from the water, to stop the flood.
The second, I don't know the owner, so didn't find out the original cause, just observed the horror and the guys in the water trying to stop the inflood.
I have also hear of a GB 42 with dripless that suffered the same fate.

I will stay with my own traditional stuffing boxes with teflon packing. I sometimes get a drip, nothing I can't handle. Easy maintenance, safe.

 

[Group9]

Dripless seals work better than packing glands, when they work. I’m not sure I know of a case of a packing gland failure sinking a boat, But I watched a dripless seal failure sink a boat about three months ago. I have dripless seals, and it sure got me to thinking.

 

[FF]

"Is a dry bilge to be desired?"

Not by me!

We run our hyd windlass hoses thru 3 inches of water which saves installing a heat exchanger.


KISS!

 

[Moby Nick]

We have an "old fashioned" dripless shaft seal in our 42- yr-old Albin-25 which is simply a bronze chamber mounted on the hull with a large-dia rubber hose.
The oil-filled chamber is sealed at both ends by rubber rings (O-rings or lip-rings). At some point when they begin to leak, some folks replace the fill plug with a zerk fitting and fill the chamber with grease. We've experienced a bit too much leakage over recent seasons and so I refilled the chamber with grease. I had thought a traditional packing seal might be a good idea (considering the vintage of our boat), but after reading the caution above regarding "alignment of an additional shaft bearing" I'm having doubts.