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Old 02-17-2015, 08:34 AM   #101
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Thanks you guys!

It's threads like this that remind me why we live here.

Sometime look up a poem by an author who spent time here. The poem is called

The spell of the Yukon by Robert Service.

We were at San Diego Zoo a couple of months ago.

When we saw the polar bears I looked over at my wife and said " I'd bet I'm the only guy here today that has seen one of these in the wild." In reality I've been less than 10 feet from a polar bear in the wild.
We don't like cold or long periods of darkness enough to personally live there, but visiting there we could definitely see the attraction and understand why many Alaskans would never think of living anywhere else.

I met a girl long ago on the Beach in Waikiki as we all laid out in the sun on a nice December day, listening to the live music from the nearby bar. She had lived most of her life in Hawaii but recently had spent time in Alaska. She was talking about returning to Alaska in a couple of days and how excited she was and how much she loved it versus Hawaii. At that time, I couldn't imagine why or how anyone could prefer going to the cold of Alaska versus the sunshine of Hawaii. I felt like I was in paradise and yet she felt Alaska was.

Well, now I do understand.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:11 AM   #102
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my wife and I spent 2 summers in Alaska, by motorhome, and loved it. A friend of mine and his wife vacationed there for a week several summers back. They enjoyed the "glacier cruises" on cattle boats with the dinner cruise agenda, and especially the various types of crab served but commented that Alaska was nasty, "dead fish everywhere, muddy water full of trees and crap" etc. I asked him why he thought Alaskan crab was so good, he had no answer !!!!
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:26 PM   #103
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Oops! Did I roll my eyes out loud?


Alaska Crab are so good because they eat the "Dead Fish Everywhere"

And trees don't fall in the Bayou? Bears "Crap" Deer "Crap" and do it "Everywhere"
and during the floods in New Orleans- Some mud?

Just saying folks, every place can and does have closets with items of distaste as viewed by the dis-taster.

Come again my forum acquaintances, take a bit more time to learn the "Why from enlighten life long residents,share some smoked salmon and clam chowder.
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Old 02-17-2015, 04:55 PM   #104
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Oops! Did I roll my eyes out loud?


Alaska Crab are so good because they eat the "Dead Fish Everywhere"

And trees don't fall in the Bayou? Bears "Crap" Deer "Crap" and do it "Everywhere"
and during the floods in New Orleans- Some mud?

Just saying folks, every place can and does have closets with items of distaste as viewed by the dis-taster.

Come again my forum acquaintances, take a bit more time to learn the "Why from enlighten life long residents,share some smoked salmon and clam chowder.
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Not by any means implying there aren't many places with dirtier water. Not to offend anyone but you're right on New Orleans. By night how wonderful. By day, you just stare. And the bayous may look exciting on television but not my cup of tea. In my mind Alaska was wonderful. We were surprised, primarily because of unreasonable expectations, that the water wasn't cleaner and much of the concerns we gathered about it came from lifelong Alaskan residents and from fisheries. Just the comment was contained within all my praise for the state.

There were times in the spring that you did not want to get out on the lake I grew up on. When the ice and snow melted, the lakes would generally rise about 4'. That pulled everything possible off the banks and into the water. And the water turned brown. And there were fish advisories for both Mercury and PCB's.

Our local small town newspaper published an article last April Fools Day on the front page announcing plans to drain the lake in May. Now understand this was a very large lake with depths averaging about 70'. They said when the lake was built a gate at the bottom of the dam was built just for this. Advised not to worry about your docks and boats, they'd just rest gently on the bottom in the mud. The lake would then be refilled by everyone taking their garden hoses and turning the water on and placing the other end in the lake. There would be no fees for water usage during that time. Fish would all be crowded into small water pockets in the deepest parts of the lake so no fishing would be allowed during that time. I think this definitely topped their report from a year earlier on building a 35 foot Buddha on the lake.

Here is the link to that article.

Poor water quality prompts plan to drain Lake Norman¬*|¬*CorneliusNews.net
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:52 PM   #105
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We were surprised, primarily because of unreasonable expectations, that the water wasn't cleaner and much of the concerns we gathered about it came from lifelong Alaskan residents and from fisheries. Just the comment was contained within all my praise for the state.
That is the first time I have heard anything like this. To be honest it sounds like some folks having issue with the logging industry in Southeast Alaska.

Since your trip was limited to southeast Alaska, and since there is a very vocal minority down there that are anti everything, that's where I'll bet it came from.

The simple fact is that logging will impact nearby streams. Whether we are for or against logging in Alaska, streams are impacted in that localized vicinity.

I can assure you that while you saw a small portion of our state, in general, and of course there are exceptions, the water in Alaska is as it always has been.

Just like you described water takes on a tint based on what is in it.

Glacial water is grey due to the fine rock particles.
Water from peat swamps can be brown due to whatever particles the peat swamp puts in it.
Runoff has a brown tint from the soil particles.

The majority of streams carry some color, with glacier being the most prevalent.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:08 PM   #106
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That is the first time I have heard anything like this. To be honest it sounds like some folks having issue with the logging industry in Southeast Alaska.

Since your trip was limited to southeast Alaska, and since there is a very vocal minority down there that are anti everything, that's where I'll bet it came from.

The simple fact is that logging will impact nearby streams. Whether we are for or against logging in Alaska, streams are impacted in that localized vicinity.

I can assure you that while you saw a small portion of our state, in general, and of course there are exceptions, the water in Alaska is as it always has been.

Just like you described water takes on a tint based on what is in it.

Glacial water is grey due to the fine rock particles.
Water from peat swamps can be brown due to whatever particles the peat swamp puts in it.
Runoff has a brown tint from the soil particles.

The majority of streams carry some color, with glacier being the most prevalent.
My trip went to Seward and Kodiak and Valdez.

You're right as to the logs being more talked about in SE Alaska. Water quality seemed more an issue in Juneau than anywhere else we went. And the biggest complaints we heard from fishermen was in Wrangell.

I'm afraid my comments on being surprised are being built into far more than they were intended to be. Guess that is an area we hadn't done our homework before going or perhaps read books that described just specific small areas. We hit Alaska in Mid June and I don't know how much spring runoff there is at that time either. It was a beautiful state. Just in my imagination I figured it would be a state free of any water pollution issues. They're probably still minor compared to other states. I'd also probably seen too much "Buying Alaska" where perhaps there's a little exaggeration. On it's counterpart show, Hawaii is made to be perfect. Not like we're going to promote a location and give the entire picture. If I want to promote Fort Lauderdale, I might not be totally unbiased.

And I didn't know glacier water had a grey tint before seeing it. I saw white glaciers, guess I expected clear water. Although guess the glaciers aren't a true white when one thinks about it, but they're sure beautiful and imposing. We actually chartered in Valdez to get a closer view at them in that area. And we did spend a day in Glacier Bay.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:29 PM   #107
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Just like you described water takes on a tint based on what is in it.

Glacial water is grey due to the fine rock particles.
Water from peat swamps can be brown due to whatever particles the peat swamp puts in it.
Runoff has a brown tint from the soil particles.

The majority of streams carry some color, with glacier being the most prevalent.
I think that's the point being made here. People think of glaciers as pristine pure water from the ancient past. And while they are generally from a human pollution perspective, they also carry TONS of sediment that they have scraped up over the millenia. I know I was very surprised when I first saw the glacial streams in Alaska - I thought I'd be dipping my cup in for drinks! I quickly learned that my water filter would clog almost immediately if I didn't filter out of a pan after settling. Once I knew, it made complete sense. I just didn't expect it.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:32 PM   #108
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My trip went to Seward and Kodiak and Valdez.

You're right as to the logs being more talked about in SE Alaska. Water quality seemed more an issue in Juneau than anywhere else we went. And the biggest complaints we heard from fishermen was in Wrangell.

We hit Alaska in Mid June and I don't know how much spring runoff there is at that time either. It was a beautiful state. Just in my imagination I figured it would be a state free of any water pollution issues.
Yes, as I indicated there is a very vocal minority in Juneau.

I don't need to tell you this but spring runoff isn't polluted. Its just spring runoff.

That said, wherever there are people there is going to be non natural things there, IE pollution of some sort. More people, more pollution.

Just remember that many of the reports of pollution you hear are propagated by a group of people that have an agenda for our state. An agenda paid for by big money from environmental groups that for the most part have never been here.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:47 PM   #109
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Just remember that many of the reports of pollution you hear are propagated by a group of people that have an agenda for our state. An agenda paid for by big money from environmental groups that for the most part have never been here.
Honestly, the one I didn't figure out was on the state site talking about pollution some of the lakes and the petroleum content (now this started in 1994) and blaming it on the number of boats, especially the two cycles. I know they tested and found it high, I just had to wonder where this massive onslaught of leaky boats was or if they'd all run away. I sure figured if boats were causing too much petroleum content in the water then we were in some big trouble in Fort Lauderdale.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:50 PM   #110
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I don't need to tell you this but spring runoff isn't polluted. Its just spring runoff.
.
Obviously true. Muddy and trashy sometimes depending on the land. Just whatever it picks up along the way.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:06 PM   #111
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Honestly, the one I didn't figure out was on the state site talking about pollution some of the lakes and the petroleum content (now this started in 1994) and blaming it on the number of boats, especially the two cycles. I know they tested and found it high, I just had to wonder where this massive onslaught of leaky boats was or if they'd all run away. I sure figured if boats were causing too much petroleum content in the water then we were in some big trouble in Fort Lauderdale.
That one is suprising. Any chance you could PM or post a link? I am very curious.

My guess is that they are talking about Big Lake, but thats just a guess. Big Lake is probably the most developed lake in the area, but most lakes in populated areas are ringed by houses and every house has at least one boat and generally more parked out front.

Yes, thinking about it I could see increased petrolium levels on our lakes in habitated areas. Even though I live on a lake, I never really think of lake pollution. Our lake is very clear, and holds some gigantic native rainbow trout, and I for one am glad that few people fish for them, or I suppose even know they are there.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:07 PM   #112
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That one is suprising. Any chance you could PM or post a link? I am very curious.

My guess is that they are talking about Big Lake, but thats just a guess. Big Lake is probably the most developed lake in the area, but most lakes in populated areas are ringed by houses and every house has at least one boat and generally more parked out front.

Yes, thinking about it I could see increased petrolium levels on our lakes in habitated areas. Even though I live on a lake, I never really think of lake pollution. Our lake is very clear, and holds some gigantic native rainbow trout, and I for one am glad that few people fish for them, or I suppose even know they are there.
Good guess. Big Lake was one. Lake Lucille.

Here is the link to the Waters in the Spotlight.

State of Alaska - Department of Water - WQSAR - Non-Point Source Water Pollution Control - Waters in the Spotlight

I was actually quite impressed that the state is highlighting and address areas. Every state should have such a program and the transparency. The lake I grew up on has problems.

Just for comparison, here is the NC listing and it's Mercury, PCB's and Dioxin.

NC DPH: Occupational & Environmental Epidemiology: Current N.C. Fish Consumption Advisories

In Florida it's Nutrient Pollution.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:45 PM   #113
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Good guess. Big Lake was one. Lake Lucille.

Here is the link to the Waters in the Spotlight.

State of Alaska - Department of Water - WQSAR - Non-Point Source Water Pollution Control - Waters in the Spotlight

I was actually quite impressed that the state is highlighting and address areas. Every state should have such a program and the transparency. The lake I grew up on has problems.

Just for comparison, here is the NC listing and it's Mercury, PCB's and Dioxin.

NC DPH: Occupational & Environmental Epidemiology: Current N.C. Fish Consumption Advisories

In Florida it's Nutrient Pollution.
Thanks

I know Big Lake and Lucille, both are very close to my home lake.

Both have a large ammount of PWC's on them. PWC's are very popular on our interior lakes in Alaska. Big lake is one of the few lakes that has more than residential use. Big lake has a couple of marinas, restraunts, etc... It is a very popular weekend destination.

Hopefully as the older PWC's age out of use being replaced by more enviromentally firendly four stroke units the problem will mitigate itself.
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Old 02-18-2015, 12:51 AM   #114
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Hopefully as the older PWC's age out of use being replaced by more enviromentally firendly four stroke units the problem will mitigate itself.
You're right and older outboards. For all those upset over the move from 2 to 4 cylinder, this is the perfect example of why.
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Old 02-19-2015, 01:36 AM   #115
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Then you have old Al- When my 2 cycle 6 hp Evenrudes fails, I find another old good runner 2 cycle for $200/300 bucks on Craiglist and am off again tooting and pallooting.

In all seriousness, somewhere recently I read where the 2 cycle tech improvements have the 2 cycle bettering the 4 cycle in pollution control and fuel burn (Gas and Diesel). At any rate, improvements are being made. At some point even I will make the move. Trust me, I recently acquired a Iphone. This from a rotary dial cell phone!!
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:09 AM   #116
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Then you have old Al- When my 2 cycle 6 hp Evenrudes fails, I find another old good runner 2 cycle for $200/300 bucks on Craiglist and am off again tooting and pallooting.

In all seriousness, somewhere recently I read where the 2 cycle tech improvements have the 2 cycle bettering the 4 cycle in pollution control and fuel burn (Gas and Diesel). At any rate, improvements are being made. At some point even I will make the move. Trust me, I recently acquired a Iphone. This from a rotary dial cell phone!!
Al
Supposedly the Evinrude's are more efficient.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:55 AM   #117
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That is the first time I have heard anything like this. To be honest it sounds like some folks having issue with the logging industry in Southeast Alaska.

Since your trip was limited to southeast Alaska, and since there is a very vocal minority down there that are anti everything, that's where I'll bet it came from.

The simple fact is that logging will impact nearby streams. Whether we are for or against logging in Alaska, streams are impacted in that localized vicinity.

I can assure you that while you saw a small portion of our state, in general, and of course there are exceptions, the water in Alaska is as it always has been.

Just like you described water takes on a tint based on what is in it.

Glacial water is grey due to the fine rock particles.
Water from peat swamps can be brown due to whatever particles the peat swamp puts in it.
Runoff has a brown tint from the soil particles.

The majority of streams carry some color, with glacier being the most prevalent.
Exactly.

You can tell it's a glacial stream from the rock powder in it. Glaciers grind rocks, this the powder.

When I lived in Fairbanks the first time, our water was brown, due to decayed organic material and dissolved minerals. All natural.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:29 PM   #118
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BandB,

Having kept my boat in Wrangell for the last two years, what were the fishermen complaining about? The water in Wrangell goes from very clear and pristine looking, to murky and filled with debris. All of that is a function of tides and the Stikine River. Go south about 5 miles and it is generally always clear. The worst harbor I have seen in Alaska for "pollution" was Whittier, but a lot of that dates back to WWII with fuel storage and to poor harbor management. That's why it was picked as the location to film a Cold War movie about a Russian submarine base. I've been to one and the resemblance is striking.

As far as logs in the water are concerned, most of those seem to be the result of landslides, when a large portion of the mountain side covered with forest let's loose down to rock and slides into the water. If you look at mountain sides all over southeast Alaska you will see the scars of these landslides. The amount of logging going on in southeast Alaska is a very small fraction of what it used to be and most is not directly on the coast. While logs are dumped into the water inside of log booms, I can't recall seeing any log booms being towed. All the logs I saw being transported were on barges that were loaded from logs in the floating booms. I have also spent a lot of time walking beaches and shorelines (the lab needs 3 a days to keep him happy), and I can't say I've seen many whole logs that were obviously harvested washed up.

As Al said earlier, the amount of debris in the water in southeast Alaska is directly related to the tide levels. On the highest of the high tides, trees and debris that were safely on beach in November may be floating again in March.

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Old 02-19-2015, 09:05 PM   #119
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BandB,

Having kept my boat in Wrangell for the last two years, what were the fishermen complaining about? The water in Wrangell goes from very clear and pristine looking, to murky and filled with debris. All of that is a function of tides and the Stikine River.

As Al said earlier, the amount of debris in the water in southeast Alaska is directly related to the tide levels. On the highest of the high tides, trees and debris that were safely on beach in November may be floating again in March.

Tom
They were complaining about murky and filled with debris. Saying it use to be clearer. But then fishermen will complain most everywhere about something others are doing to ruin things. They care passionately so they do.

The reasons for debris is typical for all places from the Tenn Tom to the lake I grew up on. We'd have a week every spring you thought the lake was horrible. Muddy from water off the banks, debris pulled into the lake. It would quickly go from lake to lake down the river. I'd say there was a difference from the beginning of our trip to the end.

I loved Alaska. The mention of surprise that the water wasn't perfect and pristine was one sentence out of 29 paragraphs and many other posts and I think since it's become far too much of the focus. It wasn't meant to be some huge condemnation. As to the water quality problems, Alaska has some like every state, probably less than most. I guess I was surprised there was any issue. Certainly the problems contributed to two many 2 stroke engines wasn't one I'd ever expected. Alaska is still beautiful. We enjoyed our trip immensely. It was one comment as to something that surprised me a bit, really from a misconception. It was my thought at that time but among so many thoughts I had during the two months we traveled about 4500 miles.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:40 PM   #120
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They were complaining about murky and filled with debris. Saying it use to be clearer. But then fishermen will complain most everywhere about something others are doing to ruin things. They care passionately so they do.

The reasons for debris is typical for all places from the Tenn Tom to the lake I grew up on. We'd have a week every spring you thought the lake was horrible. Muddy from water off the banks, debris pulled into the lake. It would quickly go from lake to lake down the river. I'd say there was a difference from the beginning of our trip to the end.

I loved Alaska. The mention of surprise that the water wasn't perfect and pristine was one sentence out of 29 paragraphs and many other posts and I think since it's become far too much of the focus. It wasn't meant to be some huge condemnation. As to the water quality problems, Alaska has some like every state, probably less than most. I guess I was surprised there was any issue. Certainly the problems contributed to two many 2 stroke engines wasn't one I'd ever expected. Alaska is still beautiful. We enjoyed our trip immensely. It was one comment as to something that surprised me a bit, really from a misconception. It was my thought at that time but among so many thoughts I had during the two months we traveled about 4500 miles.
Well, I for one am glad you enjoyed you trip, and would like to welcome you back in the future. Like all places Alaska has its very unique enviroments, and I welcome anybody that wants to come explore the last frontier.
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