Generator auto shutdown issue

[OldDan1943]

My NL Gen suddenly would stop after about 5 mins. Turned out to be a bad coolant temp sensor. Replaced it, all it fine.
My NL had NO instrumentation ..... Why you may ask? Because it will "protect itself" Oh yea, just shuts down.... It now has analog coolant temp gauge and oil pressure gauge and a SW overboard high temp alarm, ideally I will have some idea WHY it is "protecting itself." LOL
So what did I learn? Water temp sensor and/or oil pressure sensor goes bad, the generator will "protect itself" and shut down.
My official NL tech also said the NL is very sensitive about coolant level so, he added just a little bit more anti-freeze, up to the neck.

 

[Mike Potter]

The generators use engine shut downs because they are unattended engines while operating. Propulsion is monitored by the helmsman.
Gotta be careful about coolant level.
Most liquid cooled residential and commercial machines have a low coolant level sensor.
Again, on an inhibit.
Without low coolant level sensors, in the case of a sudden loss of coolant, the temperature sensor would have no hot coolant on it to generate a signal for shut down.
Seen more than one engine run until it was black and charred.

 

[Baker]

OK, that would be a really outstanding price, I looked around for 2 months and couldn't find an aftermarket or rebuilt one. I also called Flight Systems, they were very helpful, but they said they couldn't rebuild that controller. After install, the controller needs to be programmed. Are you still getting the same error code as before when the gen-set shuts down?


I read through the manual, and now think that maybe we aren't talking about the same part? The manual is kind of confusing. I'm referring to the box on thel left side of the set, the thing with the LED screen on it that displays hours and error codes? That is what I call the controller, and what the Kohler dealer who helped me out called it.


I replaced that entire part. The part number is ADC2100, here is a link:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kohler-GM3...637456&hash=item2ad54e71f1:g:r7kAAOSwK1NdgUbl


I also called the Kohler distributor for florida and talked to their tech support, they were very helpful. TAW Power 813-840-3500.



Hope that helps.

Doug,

You don’t have an 8EOZ...this is a mechanical generator with some electrical controls. There is no “display” or error codes. You watch a very primitive series of LED lights that illuminate on shutdown to discern the issue. If I had “error codes” I would not be in this debacle.

With that said, I think we found the issue. It seems the electric fuel pump is drawing too much current causing the DC breaker to pop. Waiting on the part. I can only hope that solves it.

Mike, we did test the windings and they are putting out power. Do you have an electric fuel pump for an 8EOZ?

 

[Mike Potter]

Guys, I saw mention of adc 2100 and et al.
EOZ is a relay controlled machine
EOZD is digital and uses the red LED equipped controller with the rocker button that goes left, center and right.
One position is auto. In marine that’s for remote start.
The latest controller is ADCII
In the case of diesel, ADC IId
If anyone needs the programming pages I can send them.
I have both style digital controllers all over the shop.
Flight Systems can’t fix them because they are potted
I will jump out of this if you’ve heard enough.

 

[Baker]

Mike, please don’t. We can always learn!!

 

[Capitaine R]

We have an older 4.5 kw yanmar (I see they are called Kohlers now). The delay on the oil pressure safety is either not working or it doesn't exist on this older model and it will shut down if the start button is released too quickly after the engine starts. I have to hold down the start button for 4/5 seconds to keep her running. This doesn't effect the starter motor at all as it throws out as soon as the engine starts. It took a few tries to learn this trick and I actually tied the fuel solenoid back a few times to keep the gen running long enough to make a pot of coffee before realizing what was wrong. Of course we made sure that all the fluids were full and clean before forcing it to run.

 

[Dougcole]

Guys, I saw mention of adc 2100 and et al.
EOZ is a relay controlled machine
EOZD is digital and uses the red LED equipped controller with the rocker button that goes left, center and right.
One position is auto. In marine that’s for remote start.
The latest controller is ADCII
In the case of diesel, ADC IId
If anyone needs the programming pages I can send them.
I have both style digital controllers all over the shop.
Flight Systems can’t fix them because they are potted
I will jump out of this if you’ve heard enough.

Thanks Mike and Baker, that clears it up. I knew I had an 8EOZ, I guess I left off the "D." Sorry about that Baker. Mike's description is exactly my controller.

 

[Sailinggod]

For what it is worth, I had a similar problem on a Kohler 8 KW gen set. It would not run past the 5 or 10 second start up time. Started fine but would not run.
Turned out to be a water flow sensor located just prior to the heat exchanger. It was not a temp overload but a flow sensor. Just by disconnecting the sensor I was able to run the genset fine, which seemed a bit odd to me but that is the way that sensor operates. Once it senses flow it goes into open condition.
I was able to run genset fine with a disconnected sensor until I could get a new sensor for it.
Don’t know if this will fix your problem but I looked far and wide for clues and could not find this sensor in any of the manuals.
Cheers

 

[Art]

I was able to run genset fine with a disconnected sensor until I could get a new sensor for it.
Don’t know if this will fix your problem but I looked far and wide for clues and could not find this sensor in any of the manuals.

Cheers

I'm not clear on what you mean. Did you find/get another sensor for the gen set? And, did you install it... if found?

Seems the sensor [a safety feature] is not actually necessary as long as water flow is for sure kept sufficient... am I correct??

 

[Mike Potter]

the water flow sensor is to act in case the seawater flow stops. there are times when the exhaust pipe temperature sensor will not catch the temperature in time to stop the engine before damage occurs.

exhaust hose will melt close to the exhaust elbow.
the best benefit of this sensor is it will catch poor water flow before it becomes zero water flow. the logic in the software is set to stop the engine before an impeller burns. thats handy in times when sea-cocks are accidentally left closed and so on...

Cumnmins Onan pioneered them way back when they introduced the first quiet diesel. the first digital controlled marine set. still the only one that works dead on and durably. the pressure switches have proven to be very helpful. i believe they should be on propulsion as well.

if the 1/8 inch male pipe thread of the sensor is installed in a down angle, the sediment will drop out of the sensor port when the set is turned off. that will keep the sensor working. with kohler, some of the early sensors were steel bodied. they corroded right away and became useless. the later sensors are brass and more durable. if the sensor is brass, and not trashed, using a tip cleaner or small drill bit inside the port may free it up. they are common and should be no problem to get a new one. be careful deleting safety sensors on unattended engines.

 

[Art]

the water flow sensor is to act in case the seawater flow stops. there are times when the exhaust pipe temperature sensor will not catch the temperature in time to stop the engine before damage occurs.

exhaust hose will melt close to the exhaust elbow.
the best benefit of this sensor is it will catch poor water flow before it becomes zero water flow. the logic in the software is set to stop the engine before an impeller burns. thats handy in times when sea-cocks are accidentally left closed and so on...

Cumnmins Onan pioneered them way back when they introduced the first quiet diesel. the first digital controlled marine set. still the only one that works dead on and durably. the pressure switches have proven to be very helpful. i believe they should be on propulsion as well.

if the 1/8 inch male pipe thread of the sensor is installed in a down angle, the sediment will drop out of the sensor port when the set is turned off. that will keep the sensor working. with kohler, some of the early sensors were steel bodied. they corroded right away and became useless. the later sensors are brass and more durable. if the sensor is brass, and not trashed, using a tip cleaner or small drill bit inside the port may free it up. they are common and should be no problem to get a new one. be careful deleting safety sensors on unattended engines.

Our 1977 Kohler, 7.5 gasoline gen set's grilled raw water cooling intake got covered once years ago by weed debris floating under and getting sucked up to the grill while at anchor.

As we don't leave gen set on unless we are in salon [remaining aware to the sound of its motor and relatively often looking over the side at exhaust water flow] we suddenly noted a different sound. I looked over and saw that water flow had changed to just a spit. Shut her right down. Went to the gen and noted water had steam in the small overflow tank. I then went under boat with fins, mask and flashlight. Cleared the debris. When gen was well cooled, after checking antifreeze coolant level [no extra required], I restated the gen. All was OK.

This makes me feel there may be little to no "operational" emergency shutdown items/sensors on our 1977, 7.5 Kohler gen??!!

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

We have a 2017 Kohler 9k and it kept shutting down. It has a display and showed 'Low oil pressure shutdown'. Turned out to be the sensor. Of course I could find one in an auto parts store for $40, but the marina would not allow anything but a "marine oil pressure sensor" at $400. But now the gennie works perfectly.

 

[Art]

We have a 2017 Kohler 9k and it kept shutting down. It has a display and showed 'Low oil pressure shutdown'. Turned out to be the sensor. Of course I could find one in an auto parts store for $40, but the marina would not allow anything but a "marine oil pressure sensor" at $400. But now the gennie works perfectly.

So... I just gotta ask... which cost sensor did you end up with???

 

[Mike Potter]

Hi Art
You must have the 7.5 R. It uses the Kohler built L654 engine. Magneto ignition. Your machine will have oil pressure shut down and high coolant temp shutdown. It would not be hard to install an exhaust temperature shut down. Magnetos are grounded to case to cease ignition. That said, just use a temperature switch that is normally open. The early Kohler models EKD used them. As well as ECD, CZ, ESZ and I think others. Use some heat conductive paste. If you can’t sort a good way to fit it up, a hose clamp or stainless seizing wire is better than nothing. Do not drill a hole in the exhaust in order to utilize the bolt hole on the sensor. You can wire the sensor to the engine temp switch or oil pressure switch. Check your exhaust pipe on the machine. The early models used iron pipe nipples. There were some very unfortunate carbon monoxide accidents. Kohler has a standing warranty policy on the machine. They will pay their dealers to install a stainless exhaust elbow if not already done. Always keep new, marine or R.V. grade c/o sensors in each occupied space in your vessel. Residential and commercial units are not the same. The mathematics designed in marine and R.V. account for small compartments, occupants that are tired and have been in sun, I’m sure much more. The reason the exhaust tone changed is when the gasses lost their cooling water, they expanded. That affect created an increase in pressure, hence velocity. Good ear ya got. Side exit exhaust is really tough C/O and boarding seas wise. I have opinion there should be nothing on generator or sail propulsion seawater through hulls. If growth occurs on the aft area, what was a dish is now a scoop. Also, I would rather let the stuff get in the seawater strainer in the engine room than have to go over the side. Hope some of this is worthwhile and of benefit.
God bless

 

[Mike Potter]

Foxtrotcharlie,
Yours might be the model EKOD. They had some revisions on the oil sensors. Given the year of your set, it was probably within the first two years 2000 hour warranty policy. Might have paid to check on that.
They also did some software updates but as I recall, that was on larger units only.
Have not worked on the brand in awhile and memory needs a reboot....

 

[Sailinggod]

I first tried starting genset with flow sensor leads shorted, figuring the sensor needed to make connection. No joy. So then I tried disconnecting the sensor and it started and ran fine. The flow sensor is located on the inlet side of the heat exchanger in the stud forward side of the generator. I lift it disconnected until I could get a new sensor which now works fine.
So you may think it doesn’t perform a safety function when you can run with it disconnected but when working properly the sensor goes open. I guess when it failed it was shorted.
New sensor was around $140 if I recall.
Cheers

 

[Art]

Hi Art
You must have the 7.5 R. It uses the Kohler built L654 engine. Magneto ignition. Your machine will have oil pressure shut down and high coolant temp shutdown. It would not be hard to install an exhaust temperature shut down. Magnetos are grounded to case to cease ignition. That said, just use a temperature switch that is normally open. The early Kohler models EKD used them. As well as ECD, CZ, ESZ and I think others. Use some heat conductive paste. If you can’t sort a good way to fit it up, a hose clamp or stainless seizing wire is better than nothing. Do not drill a hole in the exhaust in order to utilize the bolt hole on the sensor. You can wire the sensor to the engine temp switch or oil pressure switch. Check your exhaust pipe on the machine. The early models used iron pipe nipples. There were some very unfortunate carbon monoxide accidents. Kohler has a standing warranty policy on the machine. They will pay their dealers to install a stainless exhaust elbow if not already done. Always keep new, marine or R.V. grade c/o sensors in each occupied space in your vessel. Residential and commercial units are not the same. The mathematics designed in marine and R.V. account for small compartments, occupants that are tired and have been in sun, I’m sure much more. The reason the exhaust tone changed is when the gasses lost their cooling water, they expanded. That affect created an increase in pressure, hence velocity. Good ear ya got. Side exit exhaust is really tough C/O and boarding seas wise. I have opinion there should be nothing on generator or sail propulsion seawater through hulls. If growth occurs on the aft area, what was a dish is now a scoop. Also, I would rather let the stuff get in the seawater strainer in the engine room than have to go over the side. Hope some of this is worthwhile and of benefit.
God bless

Correct Mike... a 1977 Kohler; 75R with L564 engine and magneto ignition.

The many books I have on it show oil pressure and high temp shutdowns. Its setup on auto load-start. However, I do not leave it ready to activate that way... because I do not want it to start without me on the spot to handle any item that may arise. I'm there to flip breakers and turn-on the start switch when we use it. Also, I always adjust on/off breaker actions so there is seldom even a 20 amps draw. 15 amps on the dile makes me comfortable.

20 psi is the recommended oil pressure level. I have the orig gauge on motor reading exactly 20 psi when warm; its about 22 to 23 while warming. Recent new governor spring and adjustment keeps output at 125 to 130 volts low load, 115 to 120 highload. Iron pipe nipple changed to stainless years ago; that and all exhaust parts still like new.

CO sensor in all locations on boat and kept up to date. We always make sure there is some fresh airflow through boat while using gen and shut door/window on its exhaust side of boat.

Never sleep with gen running. Don't run gen while boat engines run.

General Run times: Morning 1.5 to 2 hrs. for coffee brew as well as batt bank and phones/computer/video-player charging. Late afternoon 1 to 1.5 hrs. for added batt charge and other things!

Sometimes we watch a TV show or two during gen set run times.

She's a pretty good old gen; recent full tune up, new impeller and fan belt with oil change. Have no idea of hrs. Uses no oil or coolant fluid.

Occasionally after running for 30 to 60 minutes it will suddenly shut down and needs about an hour before will again start. Usually runs non stop for any length of time we desire.

Interesting item is that whenever we shut her down ourselves she will not start again for about one hour [similar to as her occasional self-shutdown] . Then run fine.

God Bless to You and Yours! - Art

 

[skipperguy]

My 2 successes

Only two times I solved Genset shut downs:
1- an exhaust blockage due to inner section of exhaust hose closing off exhaust outlet. invisible when viewed from exterior
2-fragmented but functional raw water impeller. Exhaust water appearing normal but broke down shortly after running.

Both times a professional Overlooked these problems. Lady luck stepped in

 

[Ski in NC]

Baker- A few things I think apply to your gennie:

1. There really is not a timed shutdown bypass, the shutdowns are bypassed while the start button is held. So if it runs for a few seconds after button is released, that is probably not the shutdowns.

2. One of the trips on these is if AC volts don't build, it will trip. Frustrating feature when troubleshooting. Put a voltmeter on output lugs and crank and hold start button long enough to see if you are getting AC volts. Don't hold to long as it is hard on the starter. Or manually hold shutdown lever for this test.

3. If DC control breaker pops, that is NOT a normal shutdown. If any of the safeties take it out, breaker does not trip (pretty sure of that, but not 100%), it just releases the fuel solenoid.

So my thinking is if the breaker is popping, there is a high current in something like the fuel solenoid, or a breaker tripping at low current. Maybe replace the breaker with a 5A fuse temporarily.

 

[Baker]

Baker- A few things I think apply to your gennie:

1. There really is not a timed shutdown bypass, the shutdowns are bypassed while the start button is held. So if it runs for a few seconds after button is released, that is probably not the shutdowns.

2. One of the trips on these is if AC volts don't build, it will trip. Frustrating feature when troubleshooting. Put a voltmeter on output lugs and crank and hold start button long enough to see if you are getting AC volts. Don't hold to long as it is hard on the starter. Or manually hold shutdown lever for this test.

3. If DC control breaker pops, that is NOT a normal shutdown. If any of the safeties take it out, breaker does not trip (pretty sure of that, but not 100%), it just releases the fuel solenoid.

So my thinking is if the breaker is popping, there is a high current in something like the fuel solenoid, or a breaker tripping at low current. Maybe replace the breaker with a 5A fuse temporarily.

Thanks Ski. We did all of that. Turns out there is something going on with the fuel pump. It is requiring over 20 amps so it is popping the DC breaker. A new fuel pump is on the way.

 

[Ski in NC]

Nice catch on that fuel pump. That would do it.