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Old 08-25-2015, 05:16 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty477 View Post
"an MTU 16V4000 as used on many large yachts produces more than 4600 hp out of 4211 cubic inches"


I am not familiar with these MTU's wither but it appears that there was another typo when recording these numbers as well.


Hope this helps

No, it is not helpful. It is yet another incorrect assumption and misleading statement.

It only takes a few seconds to look up the specs for the
MTU 16V 4000 M93L

I will be helpful and even provide a link:

Detail: MTU Online
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:22 AM   #82
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Like most other insane discussions here...specify or narrow down a statement or topic and THEN people start to agree.....

That's generally true ...
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:42 AM   #83
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Weighing everything up, I prefer diesel due to the increased reliability. Generally speaking, they are a simpler engine with less electrical components to fail. To me, this is the number one advantage.


All other differences are of less importance in my eyes.


With diesel, engine life is longer, and fuel consumption is lower, but these advantages are somewhat eaten up by the higher initial cost.


Either one can be perfectly safe if installed and maintained correctly, although diesel has the advantage in the safety category.


Weight was a big disadvantage with early diesels, but there is less difference with later model engines.
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:46 AM   #84
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Hello Rick B,


Which diesel engines do you run on your current or past boat?
Can you describe your normal cruising GPH on those engine that you utilize?
Which other recreational engines that have been around more than a few years do you feel can easily handle loads at or above cruising at 1 hp per cubic inch displacements?
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:37 AM   #85
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What is it that makes the gas engine less dependable?

Due to the extreme sensitivity to fuel contamination on diesel engines gas would seem more dependable. With old carbureted gas engines it's a no-brainer but w new ignition systems and fuel injection it would seem to me the gasoline engine should be more dependable. Why are they considered not so?
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:53 AM   #86
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"Due to the extreme sensitivity to fuel contamination on diesel engines gas would seem more dependable"


Speaking about fuel only for a minute I find diesel to be very easy to store and use as long as it is without water contamination. If you have a leaking "O" ring to the tank or take over a boat that already has water in the tank the diesel needs to be filtered to remove the water and buildup that occurs with it. I knowingly bought one boat with a contaminated tank but after pumping and decanting out the water it was back to a no problem situation - that sounds easy but it took a while to do. Relatively clean diesel with no water contamination will store much longer than gas and especially the E10 versions.
Gas is not without water infiltration problems either and that can cost a bunch if not detected and taken care of as well.
So in general terms diesel stores longer with less problem if you have no water and start with a decently clean tank. Running vacuum gages on diesel filters takes the mystery out of filter change intervals and makes any troubleshooting required much easier.


Hope this helps
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Old 08-25-2015, 12:25 PM   #87
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In my extensive diesel experience, contamination that actually screws up the injection is incredibly rare. Filters do their job, and may clog doing it, but once that is sorted the engine is right back to work.

The number of clogged carburetors I've dealt with must be in the hundreds, and I'm not even in that business. Just fixing my own and buds around the dock.

EFI gassers and CR diesels share much of the same gripes. Computers and sensors run everything. Glitches can and do shut them both down. I will say that the CR diesels seem more reliable than I expected. The few EFI gassers on the dock have had more failures than the CR's. Sensors, flaky ECU's, flaky fuel pumps and vapor separators, wet ignition, bad coils, etc.

I'm no longer spooked by CR diesels.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:56 PM   #88
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I will go out on a bit of a limb here and say that Rick has had more hands-on, diagnose-it, fix-it experience with more types of marine diesels than anyone else on this forum. His current business is selling and installing a marine generator exhaust system of his own design to mega-yacht owners and operators all over the world.

Asking him to list all the engines he has run or is very familiar with would take him a day of typing to answer and he most certainly would prefer to make more productive, or at least more interesting, use of his time.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:59 PM   #89
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Well, a lot of people on this forum don't know who Rick is or what his experience level is, which as longtimers know is far greater than most if not all of the participants in this forum. While "Yawn" may mean something to people who already know Rick, it may not to people who don't such as Smitty477.

As you were not the one who typed the two paragraphs, nor did you have to read them, I'm not quite sure what you're heartburn is all about. Although perhaps your ISP contract charges by the word your device receives, in which case I guess I'd get upset over posts I wasn't interested in, too.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:15 PM   #90
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As far as maintenance goes, diesels are generally easier than gas engines simple because there is no ignition electrical system (no distributor, no spark plugs or wires, no coil, etc.).
Yes there are certainly issues with keeping all that high tension circuitry doing its job in a damp, corrosive, salt water marine environment.

I like the fact that an old diesel will keep ticking even if submerged.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:38 PM   #91
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"I will go out on a bit of a limb here and say that Rick has had more hands-on, diagnose-it, fix-it experience with more types of marine diesels than anyone else on this forum. His current business is selling and installing a marine generator exhaust system of his own design to mega-yacht owners and operators all over the world.

Asking him to list all the engines he has run or is very familiar with would take him a day of typing to answer and he most certainly would prefer to make more productive, or at least more interesting, use of his time."


So maybe pick one common type of engine that used by us "normal" folks recreationally and try and help folks on this forum learn how we can load up those engines and still not loose any reasonable engine life.
If not then why bother to post at all?
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:51 PM   #92
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Well, a lot of people on this forum don't know who Rick is or what his experience level is, which as longtimers know is far greater than most if not all of the participants in this forum. While "Yawn" may mean something to people who already know Rick, it may not to people who don't such as Smitty477.

Sounds like he knows precisely who he is to me...
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:57 PM   #93
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"Sounds like he knows precisely who he is to me... "


Hello Craig - Looks like you have 6,495 posts so maybe you can tell me what that means perhaps?
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:06 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Well, a lot of people on this forum don't know who Rick is or what his experience level is, which as longtimers know is far greater than most if not all of the participants in this forum. While "Yawn" may mean something to people who already know Rick, it may not to people who don't such as Smitty477.

As you were not the one who typed the two paragraphs, nor did you have to read them, I'm not quite sure what you're heartburn is all about. Although perhaps your ISP contract charges by the word your device receives, in which case I guess I'd get upset over posts I wasn't interested in, too.
Marin

As with in life we are all so different and so diverse If B and Wife want to let me or others know who they are that is fine.

I do not just come on here for the great information I get from the members but also relaxing to me

At the same time others want nothing but knowledge no friendship etc

So I take you and others for what I find them to be on the forum

Several on the forum I have become friends with and one actually went out of his way to meet my wife and I for a drink in Spain a couple months ago

Another sent supplies to help out a mission project I went on in the Czech Republic

As we all know in this forum I am no word smith but I do enjoy most of your posts and most Bs post

I like to just let people be what they want to be here and enjoy

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Old 08-25-2015, 06:24 PM   #95
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IMO - I think that the gas vs. diesel engine distribution in boats mirrors the distribution in land based motor vehicles for exactly the same reasons.

Larger, stronger, longer range prefer diesel.

Smaller, quicker, shorter range prefer gas.

I also think that the safety concerns of gas vs. diesel are known and manageable (we do it in our cars every day) and don't really affect the equation very much at all.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:03 PM   #96
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:57 PM   #97
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Yes there are certainly issues with keeping all that high tension circuitry doing its job in a damp, corrosive, salt water marine environment.
A little PM goes a long way though. Dielectric grease on the plug boots, sealed marine dizzy cap, anti corrosion spray on the ignition coil terminals. . .should be trouble free. Beginning of every season, these things need to be checked and touched up. Clean and gap your plugs, touch up the dielectric grease, light emery cloth on the rotor and cap terminals to get the carbon scoring off, check your ignition coil connections and touch up. If you fogged the motor before putting it up for winter, and either drained the tank or filled it up and treated it, you shouldn't have any running issues.

Of course, all the people i have helped over the years with their car and boat engines. . .never seem to do any of the above

When you guys talk about 10,000 hour+ life expectancy. . .are you referring to the entire motor as a power plant or just the short block? My diesel engine experience is all automotive. People on FTE would have 500k+ miles on the short block, but they'd have been thru 2-3 sets of injectors, 1-2 injector pumps, rebuilt the heads (and ready for another), new exhaust manifolds, 2 rebuilds on the turbo (or replaced). . .

Depending how long the peripherals last could make the difference between gas and diesel to me. Hypothetically, if over ten years of ownership of a pair of already 35 year old perkins, you still have to at least replace the exhaust manifolds, turbos, intercoolers, a head job, injectors, and fuel pump(s). . .probably to the tune of $20,000? If 150 hrs a year use, that's only 1500 hrs. . .maybe 3 sets of risers and manifolds for the crusaders? $2,000? I'll even give you a pair of long block 454's replaced in that time. . .$7,000. This is off the top of my head, but am I missing something?

LoL, just how much more gas does a 454 @ 7 knots burn vs a diesel
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:19 PM   #98
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I will go out on a bit of a limb here and say that Rick has had more hands-on, diagnose-it, fix-it experience with more types of marine diesels than anyone else on this forum. His current business is selling and installing a marine generator exhaust system of his own design to mega-yacht owners and operators all over the world.

Asking him to list all the engines he has run or is very familiar with would take him a day of typing to answer and he most certainly would prefer to make more productive, or at least more interesting, use of his time.
Actually the question is very valid.

Rick deals in mega yachts. He is very knowledgable regarding them. That said when posting as a subject matter expert, you need to be open to questions regarding the basis for that expertise, and not on mega yachts. Nobody here owns a mega yacht, we own recreational boats 95% are 50' or less.

He quoted a 1600 horsepower engine. nobody here owns one of those, or anything close. the engineering standards and the life expectancy probably cannot be compared with my 5.9L cummins at 330 hp.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:28 PM   #99
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Nobody here owns a mega yacht, we own recreational boats 95% are 50' or less.

He quoted a 1600 horsepower engine. nobody here owns one of those, or anything close.
Rick's owned boats just like ours. He has given me in the past valuable information and understanding about how the fuel injection pumps and governors on our FL120s work, information about our Onan MDJE Jurassic Edition generator, and so forth.

I'll leave it to him to spell out his range of engine experience if he wants to. I simply wanted to point out to someone who I assume had never heard of him that, unlike a lot of people on this and similar amateur user internet forums, Rick knows a hell of a lot more than the average forum user would assume if they didn't know him already.

(Sorry psneeld, there's two paragraphs again. Hope they didn't break the bank......)
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:12 PM   #100
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Actually the question is very valid.

Rick deals in mega yachts.
Rick makes a living from megayachts. Those boats use generator engines the same makes and models as many if not most toy boat propulsion engines.

Over a career of working on boats from 5 hp single cylinder diesels to 60,000hp 12 cylinder 2 stroke diesels, 32,000 hp steam turbines down to 10hp recip steam engines and a host of gassers from make & break to electronic ignition, diesel electric to direct reversing engines of modern build to those nearly a century old and everything in between I have to say that your conception and misrepresentation of my background is as nonsensical as some of the material posted in this thread.

How about just concentrating on the content of the posts and get past your prejudices about the source and all readers might learn a bit.
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