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Old 09-29-2014, 12:33 PM   #21
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The idea of seaworthyness is to stay on top of the water so an extremely heavy vessel that one could say is half sunk seems to be at a disadvantage.


I cannot disagree strong enough. Of course I am talking fishing vessels not tugs though. For any big weather I would much rather be on my uncles 58', which draws over 10' and has less then 2' of freeboard midship, then almost anything else <100'. Probably is closer to 1' of freeboard when tanked for crab. I have been is 35' seas and it handled them as well as anything else I have been in.

The hull design has so much more to do with sea worthiness then the freeboard and draft.
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:45 PM   #22
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Ok rosborough and lord nelson and sundowner tugs are some of the ones I have been looking at and learning more about them. Hp ranges from 150 to 400 and both single and twins and all diesel powered. 35 foot range give or take a little.
I'm not jerking your chain Fishy, just trying to keep a check on reality. Sometimes marketing hype gets out of hand. Rosborough (the 246) builds planing boats, not tugs. The Lord Nelson Victory Tug (37') designed by James Backus, is in his words "Lines based on the traditional New England Lobsterboat"!!! If this is true it's the most bizarre juxtaposition of jargon ever....But she is also not a tug. And the Sundowner designed by Jack Sarin is a semi-displacement hull, not a tug at all.

None of these boats are intended for use 30 miles offshore, though on a good day they will be just fine out there. But 30 miles is 4+ hours at 8 knots, which is too long.

For fishing 30 miles out and general cruising I would recommend something like a Wilbur 34 or 38, or if you like more yachty, a Sabre or an Eastbay.

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Old 09-29-2014, 01:37 PM   #23
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The OP is asking is it safe to go offshore 10-30 miles, to fish presumably in a full displacement, 35' trawler. He is not asking about blue water passages.

Yes, it is absolutely safe. Forget about the windows discussion. It will probably take 8-10' seas to push green water over your bow and hit the windows full on with more than just spray. You aren't going out in those conditions and they aren't going to sneak up on you if you check the weather first before going out.

I know that you are considering downeaster hulls. These can handle those conditions better because of their long deep keel, but not because of any better windows. And these are not full displacement hull types.

The Lord Nelson 37 you mentioned will handle fishing offshore just fine.

And you will never find hard core truth on the internet. Just a bunch of opinions that you have to sort through and come to your own conclusion. So now you have mine.

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Old 09-29-2014, 05:38 PM   #24
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For fishing 30 miles out and general cruising I would recommend something like a Wilbur 34 or 38, or if you like more yachty, a Sabre or an Eastbay.

1983 Wilbur Flybridge Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
What a sweet boat. I'm glad to see it has a Volvo otherwise I was afraid I was going to have to buy her, and I'm not even boat hunting! She's winking at me hard.
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Old 09-29-2014, 06:03 PM   #25
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For fishing 30 miles out and general cruising I would recommend something like a Wilbur 34 or 38, or if you like more yachty, a Sabre or an Eastbay

Now we're talking! Good Maine boats the first three. Except for a Sabre (unless it's painted white, Moonstruck). Perhaps also a Duffy, Wesmac, Stanley or Kass?
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Old 09-29-2014, 06:21 PM   #26
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A walk of the docks in Milwaukee and a few discussions with the fisherman guys there will get you many of your answers. For sure, good boat heat is a must.
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Old 09-29-2014, 07:56 PM   #27
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I used to know what a tug hull was (river, coastal, ocean going) and I used to
know what a trawler hull (eastern seaboard, north sea) was. But with all the yacht marketing BS I no longer no what this means without a clear description (photos preferred) of the hull.
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Old 09-29-2014, 08:17 PM   #28
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This forum and its title is a primary source of confusion as to what defines a recreational "trawler." The site's subject concerns cruiser motor vessels (typically semi-planing hulls with two over-powered engines and sporting a flying bridge), not just sub-displacement-speed, full-living-accommodation motor vessels.
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Old 09-29-2014, 08:42 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I used to know what a tug hull was (river, coastal, ocean going) and I used to
know what a trawler hull (eastern seaboard, north sea) was. But with all the yacht marketing BS I no longer no what this means without a clear description (photos preferred) of the hull.
Take it easy, Poke. Even full displacement hulls can be so varied in their sea-worthiness that while one might roll you like crazy and the other snap your neck. Mine is a full displacement and bounces like a cork, working your legs to death.
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:27 AM   #30
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Tad- You hit the old heart strings with the tug design, It would fit in glass construction within the Pilgrim, Lord Nelson, American Tug, and Nordic Tug field. Surely you had construction cost estimates at the time. Would that they could be extrapolated to current cost say on a 12 boats constructed basis for discussion. Really a timeless design.
Maybe due to my age and having been around tugs of this appearance growing up it is a architectural history lesson and fond memories that make me dewy eyed.

There is a similar authentic tug that appears much as your design called the "Sandman" in the Puget Sound area. It is an "Open House" operating display.

Tugboat Sandman

On the "Dorothy Mackenzie". This is a West coast B.C. Canada fleet tug, right? There is another tug outfit B.C tug outfit that runs Pink, White and Black colors. Here in South East Alaska, where this company occasional operate, they have acquired the nick name "Pink Panther" (with affection) What is amazing is the horse power these little rigs have and the pulling power they demonstrate. These rigs come by pulling tandem and the barges are not small or lightly loaded either.
How a crew (assume two) operate and reside on the lengthy hauls they run makes one believe time off is a dream come true. Just attempting to visualize the crew accommodations is a mind twister.
Love seeing them come by the house along with viewing photos of them.

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Old 09-30-2014, 07:11 AM   #31
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Take it easy, Poke. Even full displacement hulls can be so varied in their sea-worthiness that while one might roll you like crazy and the other snap your neck. Mine is a full displacement and bounces like a cork, working your legs to death.
Larry, the point was that the OP used the term "tug" without any further description. Was he talking about a real tug hull form or one of those 30 footers that will do 18 knots and the manufacturer calls it a "tug".

Without more information his question cannot be answered.
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:25 PM   #32
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On the "Dorothy Mackenzie". This is a West coast B.C. Canada fleet tug, right? There is another tug outfit B.C tug outfit that runs Pink, White and Black colors. Here in South East Alaska, where this company occasional operate, they have acquired the nick name "Pink Panther" (with affection) What is amazing is the horse power these little rigs have and the pulling power they demonstrate. These rigs come by pulling tandem and the barges are not small or lightly loaded either.
How a crew (assume two) operate and reside on the lengthy hauls they run makes one believe time off is a dream come true. Just attempting to visualize the crew accommodations is a mind twister.
Love seeing them come by the house along with viewing photos of them.

Al
Al,

Yes, I was aboard Sandman years ago in Port Townsend.

My little Fearless drawing was based on my memories of boats like this....

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There were still a lot of wooden tugs working when I was an impressionable teen, and even later when I started working on the boats myself.

Today a 36' tug is a dayboat, they have a 2 man crew and do one shift then tie up. For 24 hour operation you must have 3 crew to keep watch, and then an engineer, and accommodations must be above the main deck. So they end up with a 5 man boat like the picture below. North Arm Transportation use the pink paint here in BC (perhaps they run into Alaska).

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Old 09-30-2014, 03:45 PM   #33
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Since this has turned into a discussion about tugs, I'll throw this great site up here:

http://prtugboats.blogspot.ca/?m=1
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Old 09-30-2014, 04:13 PM   #34
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This forum and its title is a primary source of confusion as to what defines a recreational "trawler." The site's subject concerns cruiser motor vessels (typically semi-planing hulls with two over-powered engines and sporting a flying bridge), not just sub-displacement-speed, full-living-accommodation motor vessels.
What qualifies as an overpowered semi-planing hull? I'm under the impression that too many older semi-planing hulls are underpowered. For the boating that I do now, my GB36 with twin 120 lehmans is underpowered. It would be nice to cruise at a minimum of 12 knots. It doesn't seem to make much sense to have a semi-planing boat that can't go much faster than hull speed. I like the idea of being able to go slow when I want and fast when needed. The newer boats (GB, Fleming, NT, AT,etc...) got it right with powerplants that get boats to actually cruise in the teens or higher.
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:24 PM   #35
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And dont forget the most famous tug of all- HMS Frisky!
Foundation Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:33 PM   #36
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North Arm, Yep that is the company. Introduced to them back in the 60's when Canadian mining companies were developing the gold mines on the Stikine River tributaries. They had the gall to take a fully loaded fuel and equipment barge up river. Those of us in Wrangell that knew the river were aghast. By golly, with the help of a knowledgeable local they did it. Wonderful times those were!!!
Thanks Ted.
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:52 PM   #37
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Al, I didnt know that. When I think North Arm, I think of Venture flipping in Skookumchuk. Well, that and Pink!
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:18 PM   #38
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I really think the trawler designation should be dropped. It is totally confusing and no longer has meaning other than a marketing designation to attract attention. I think this site should change its name to the Motor Boat Cruising Forum. I think that a more specific definition of boat types should be used on this forum. Type #1 Planning MV #2 Semi displacement MV single or twin power #3 Full displacement MV single or twin power #4 Multihull Where the hull type is in a grey zone a rare thing, a designation bridging the two zones involved ,as in a fast boat somewhere between planning and fast SD as a #1/#2
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:53 PM   #39
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I really think the trawler designation should be dropped. It is totally confusing and no longer has meaning other than a marketing designation to attract attention. I think this site should change its name to the Motor Boat Cruising Forum. I think that a more specific definition of boat types should be used on this forum. Type #1 Planning MV #2 Semi displacement MV single or twin power #3 Full displacement MV single or twin power #4 Multihull Where the hull type is in a grey zone a rare thing, a designation bridging the two zones involved ,as in a fast boat somewhere between planning and fast SD as a #1/#2
Then one will just argue about what those are....how about this, you divide it like this.

Super slow: under 5 knots, normally oars or paddles
Slow: 6-7 knots.
Not quite as slow:8-9 knots
Slightly above slow: 10-12 knots
Medium speed: 13-16 knots
Moderate: 17-20 knots
Decent speed: 21-25 knots
Rapid: 26-30 knots
Fast: 31-40 knots
Faster: 41-60 knots
Super Fast: 61-100 knots
Light speed: over 100 knots

And of course change the name and you'd have to change the url.

Did you mean planning as in someone planning to buy a boat? Or planing as in up and on top of the water?

Good point though. We'd need categories for those who no longer have a boat and for those who have never had a boat but want one.

Then sub categories for number of engines. And sub sub for number of anchors

Oh and what about those with multiple boats? And do we need sub categories for types of tenders?
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:14 PM   #40
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Sorry Northern Spy,
failed to consider all posters are not that familiar with areas away from their respective ports. North Arm Transportation. We have Skookumchucks here as well. Trust this correction will suffice. This thread is becoming convoluted and I fear my contributions didn't help!!

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