Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-24-2014, 12:28 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: Redlands
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 170
Fuel Usage

I know there have been several threads on fuel usage, GPH, MPG, etc. but I thought my recent info might be helpful to someone. I know that when I was looking for a boat to do the loop, fuel was a critical issue.

The boat is a 1978 Marine Trader 36' double cabin with a recently rebuilt Ford Lehman 120 engine. The bottom was pressure washed last may and divers have kept it in pretty good shape since then.

I filled at Hoppies on the Mississippi in September. Since then I have put on 293 hours and have used 724 glallons of Diesel. That works out to 2.47 GPH.

Speed varied depending on who I was traveling with but on average it was about 7 knots or in my world about 8.4 MPH (at 1,650 RPM).

This included down rivers, up rivers, a Gulf Crossing and down the ICW to Ft. Myers Beach where I just paid $3.81 a gallon.

All of this feels about right for the full 5,800 miles or so that I have traveled since last May but some of my detail was lost to the computer gods a while back so I don't have the data without a lot of reconstructing.

These old Trawlers can be great, comfortable, and economical traveling machines.

Arch
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Marine Trader 36. Completed the Great Loop (single handed). Now cruising the east coast and Bahamas.
Arch is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 12:56 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
jungpeter's Avatar
 
City: Everett
Country: US
Vessel Name: SPIRIT BEAR
Vessel Model: PACIFIC TRAWLER 40
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 131
Hi Arch,

With all due respect, fuel usage in recreational power boating such as discussed on this forum ad-nasuem (sp?) DOESN'T MATTER. If you have sufficient fuel aboard to reach your next fuel stop, THAT'S ALL THAT COUNTS. All other issues, particularly related to cost, are lost in the noise for the vast majority of us. If one needs to be concerned with the cost of fuel during your time on the water, you're in the wrong hobby. Fixed costs (depreciation, moorage, insurance, taxes, etc.), and other variable costs of boat ownership (maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc.) absolutely SWAMP fuel issues.

This is, of course, simply my opinion. However, it's backed by many, many years underway, and many, many miles under the keel of many different boats, both power and sail. I have kept meticulous track of all money out the door related to my boating experiences. The total dollars spent in boating absolutely makes my knees buckle, but given the return, I absolutely don't regret a penny spent. (Well, perhaps the $$ spent repairing my occasional dumb-ass mistakes, but that's another story!) I hope your trip on "the loop" is as much fun as advertised by others, and enjoy!

Regards,

Pete
__________________

jungpeter is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 12:58 PM   #3
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
36 ft boat with a waterline of about 34

Square root of 34 is 5.83095189. X 1.34 = 7.81 Knts per hour.

A 120 ford lehman is governed at 2500 rpm"s.

If in a perfect world you could reach that RPM at WOT. Your boat and prop would be set up for optimal fuel burn.

If you run at about 75 to 80% of the wide open throttle 17500 to 18500 would be the best load for the engine.
That being said I agree totaly with your ending comment.
Fuel burn never was the biggest expense on a boat. Just the most out of pocket at one time.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 01:24 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: Redlands
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 170
Well guys, the cost of fuel on a 6,000 mile plus trip in a year is significant in my world. It played a large part in boat selection and in determining if I could afford this trip at all. I got a lot of helpful information from this forum while I was in the early stages of planning the trip, buying and outfitting the boat. This was an attempt to pay back a bit.

Having said that, I can see where this type of information is of far less value to the folks on this forum. I will keep this kind of cost information on the Great Loop Forum in the future.

Thanks for your feedback as I learn what is relevant to this forum.

Arch
__________________
Marine Trader 36. Completed the Great Loop (single handed). Now cruising the east coast and Bahamas.
Arch is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 01:32 PM   #5
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
It is all revelant. We all use our boats for different reasons.

Everyone talks about how much fuel we burn and cost of same.

Keeping water moving under the keel is what it is all about.

A few dock queens may disagree.

We are all on board one way or another.

It's only money.

Sd
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Randall B's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 33
Arch,

An expense in boating is alway significant, be it fuel, moorage, insurance, maintenance, etc. And the further we get along in terms of the cost of fuel going up, the more significant and more discussions you will see. Of course, there are other costs to boat ownership that usually out way fuel cost, but that doesn't make it insignificant.

I have a 600 gal fuel tank that is about half empty right now, and the common opinion for winter storage is to keep that tank full. Well that is 300 gal x $4/gal= $1,200 expense that I'm not excited about adding to the other expenses.

Maybe we could start a TF fuel kitty we all put into for cruising. Say, everyone throws in $50/ month?

Hmmm, maybe that would work. I could cancel one of my Internet services and come up with that
Randall B is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 02:31 PM   #7
Guru
 
Bob Cofer's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham
Country: US
Vessel Name: Ebbtide
Vessel Model: '72 Grand Banks
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,028
Arch,

Thanks for the information, it is useful to many of us. Please keep posting. To those who don't find it useful, great, but why do you need to denigrate another's opinion? Sheesh!
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
Bob Cofer is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 02:54 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Pensacola
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cofer View Post
Arch,

Thanks for the information, it is useful to many of us. Please keep posting. To those who don't find it useful, great, but why do you need to denigrate another's opinion? Sheesh!
Agree Bob. Some people just like to hear themselves talk or in this case, read there own words.

Keep posting Arch!
Blue Heron is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 03:33 PM   #9
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Well guys, the cost of fuel on a 6,000 mile plus trip in a year is significant in my world. It played a large part in boat selection and in determining if I could afford this trip at all. I got a lot of helpful information from this forum while I was in the early stages of planning the trip, buying and outfitting the boat. This was an attempt to pay back a bit.

Having said that, I can see where this type of information is of far less value to the folks on this forum. I will keep this kind of cost information on the Great Loop Forum in the future.

Thanks for your feedback as I learn what is relevant to this forum.

Arch

Agree that fuel cost impact some of us...those that don't care fine...but only part of the boating world.

For those that run the miles...the costs can become significant enough to watch...be the highest bill of the year...no but that doesn't mean some of us can't use that extra $1000 or so in savings for other things.

I throttle back even further than you and get about 1.9gph burned and 6.3 knots average speed for about 3.3 NMPG. If I'm really not in a hurry and maybe have a fair current much of the day...I'll throttle back even more to make up for the times I push harder to make a bridge or fight a foul current.

Last year my trip worked out to be about $1.00 per Nautical Mile...I kinda like that mentality as it is easy to estimate the budget how far I'm going to go that year.
psneeld is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 05:06 PM   #10
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
I agree that if you can't afford the fuel you should not be in recreational boating, but there's little point in wasting fuel.

For me, that means cruising at near hull speed when possible. For us, the trip is as important or more important than the destination so watching the world go by is part of the enjoyment. When I say hull speed, that's speed over water so at a constant RPM, the speed over ground varies depending on the current.

If there's a weather issue or we need to be at a marina before closing time, I'll kick it up a bit.
rwidman is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 05:20 PM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,868
If you can't afford the fuel..you tie up till you can or don't go as far or as fast as you would like...you just don't sell the boat.

So if going really slow meets the fuel saver cruiser's need and makes the "trip" more enjoyable for those...I don't see the point?
psneeld is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 05:39 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Sunset's Avatar
 
City: Sharbot Lake
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Manatee
Vessel Model: 1976 Albin 25 DeLuxe
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 218
I'm not rich by any standard, my boat cost me $6K plus another 1K in upgrades, my insurance is free as part of my house policy, the marina is $1200 for the season, and getting under 2 gph at cruising speed is the only thing that allows me to go boating (away from the dock!) whenever I wish. I have learned in my limited experience that two things keep those thousands of twin-engine dock queens tied to the dock: fear of handling the boat and fuel cost.
__________________
1976 Albin 25 DeLuxe; 1990 Thundercraft 1750
Sunset is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 06:09 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
bikeandboat's Avatar
 
City: Maumelle, AR
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Some people live in a different world than mine, where fuel cost does make a difference. A couple years ago I went out on a sportfish boat with twin 12V71 turbo egnines. The fuel useage on plane worked out to about 4 gallons per mile. At $4.00 per gallon that is $16.00 per mile. My little boat runs close to Arch's, very close, which comes out about $1.00 per mile. My wife and I just finished a trip of about 1000 miles. The fuel cost difference does affect my world.
bikeandboat is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 06:15 PM   #14
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
Arch,
Everybody's scope on this is different.
I think your numbers are good, honest and useful.
We burn 1gph so it's not an issue and Pete burns probably 10gph (or so) but as he pointed out it's not (by a long shot) a big cost considering all the other costs. Our moorage in Alaska was $570 a year. Now in western Washington it's $268 a month plus more for electric. At a gallon an hour I'd be hard pressed to burn more than my moorage. Pete is right though that for most of us fuel is only a small cost.

But you know how far you will be going so you can fairly accurately predict what that cost will be. And that's planing and planing is a big important part of navigation and boating in general. Planing is good and if I hadn't married a planer I could be lost. I actually got lost w her on board and years ago I got lost in Glacier Bay w three women on board constantly turning my chart up side down. The girls all flew home from Gustavus and I was left to find my way home. And I was pleased about that.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 06:25 PM   #15
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
I really enjoy posts like this that tell me how much fuel a particular boat has used. What is less important to me is miles travelled, gallons per hour and totall fuel purchased. MPG is king, period. In Statute miles, which we all understand. And I do agree, if you are stuck to the dock you may be a little peeved at those actually burning fuel, well, suks bein you.
kulas44 is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 06:41 PM   #16
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
I really enjoy posts like this that tell me how much fuel a particular boat has used. What is less important to me is miles travelled, gallons per hour and totall fuel purchased. MPG is king, period. In Statute miles, which we all understand. And I do agree, if you are stuck to the dock you may be a little peeved at those actually burning fuel, well, suks bein you.
Not positive you are looking at it quite right yet....

In reality...only thousands of miles under your keel actually give you the real sense of cruising....waiting for bridges, locks, dockmasters, etc...all eat into your miles per gallon...I only think in Nautical miles per gallon...everyday it pisses me off some NON-BOATER came up with statute miles for the ICW...but that's me.....

Plus I can't be bothered after awhile separating out what my diesel heater and generator uses..so I say..."who cares"...because as I travel it does average out..obviously a little less if I travel in warmer weather or anchor out less...but then my marina costs go up.

So after a trip and some...that lasts thousands of miles and many months...you can pretty much narrow down what cruising costs, time, distances possible, etc...etc will be.

In my current state of work/play where I get the 4 months of winter off from my job...my budget for EVERYTHING..is $1000 per week for the 4 months...as long as that happens I'm good. As I get more time off...my money will go down and my time cruising will go up so at some point my budget might be closer to $500 per week. That means going slower (hard to imagine), less marinas and dinners out, etc....

Actually my financial planning may keep the budget close to the same...but it is possible to really play with the numbers once you have a trip up/down the ICW once or twice....

So to be fair...and annual fuel burn and miles traveled may well be a much better indicator for your future than miles per gallon, gallons per hour or anything else...
psneeld is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:05 PM   #17
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
Uh wrong, MPG taken when actually moving in a given boat of a given size is the only factor that can tell me or anyone else looking at different boats an idea of what to look for. I do understand current and wind, and at 8 mph they can make a huge difference. So, lets go with SOG@MPG most can understand that. I've been retired 15 years, since I was 38, and have travelled a lot of miles in boats. My biggest expense is fuel, by far. But, I do everything on my boats and I am a frugal shopper. And I dont mind getting greasy. I do understand that if you have just so much time, dont worry about the cost.
kulas44 is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:15 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
bikeandboat's Avatar
 
City: Maumelle, AR
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106
What is wrong with statute MPG? The 1000 mile trip I finished last month was marked entirely in statute miles on rivers and the GIWW. If I were on the high seas I woiuld change to nautical miles, but when in Rome.
bikeandboat is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:19 PM   #19
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
Uh wrong, MPG taken when actually moving in a given boat of a given size is the only factor that can tell me or anyone else looking at different boats an idea of what to look for. I do understand current and wind, and at 8 mph they can make a huge difference. So, lets go with SOG@MPG most can understand that. I've been retired 15 years, since I was 38, and have travelled a lot of miles in boats. My biggest expense is fuel, by far. But, I do everything on my boats and I am a frugal shopper. And I dont mind getting greasy. I do understand that if you have just so much time, dont worry about the cost.
MPG is the most variable of any indicator we normally discuss.....so as I said...it's only really accurate if the reporter is accurate over thousands of miles/hours..whatever.

Sure...MPG, gallons per hr and speed in still water and air (a true rarity) are all intertwined...but to say one is a better indicator than another....well...whatever....but it leaves out that identical boats could still have subtle differences like flybridge enclosure, different trim based on captain loading...etc...so many things that only averages are truly accurate..none of the instantaneous readings really mean a thing for long distance cruising.
psneeld is offline  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:21 PM   #20
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeandboat View Post
What is wrong with statute MPG? The 1000 mile trip I finished last month was marked entirely in statute miles on rivers and the GIWW. If I were on the high seas I woiuld change to nautical miles, but when in Rome.
Nothing...just after over hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of miles in nautical measure...I don't relate well to statute readings....
__________________

psneeld is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012