Fuel tank disaster...

[Bigfish]

Thanks sbu..
I tranferred about half of the 291 gallons to the other tank, still have maybe 10 gallons of fuel in the bilge that will have to wait until I get back to my mooring ball to get removed as I have no place to put it nor does the yard here... I can run it in to the City Marina where I can dump it in their facility... Scared about the other tank rupturing now as its almost full... I think, my sight gauges are so cloudy I can't tell any more...this was my biggest concern with the boat since I've had it. Even bought a boroscope to check out the tops of thanks but couldn't find a way to get it in there... It's going to be many weeks to save up enough to take the next step... $5000 at least lost today..

 

[Lou_tribal]

Thanks sbu..
I tranferred about half of the 291 gallons to the other tank, still have maybe 10 gallons of fuel in the bilge that will have to wait until I get back to my mooring ball to get removed as I have no place to put it nor does the yard here... I can run it in to the City Marina where I can dump it in their facility... Scared about the other tank rupturing now as its almost full... I think, my sight gauges are so cloudy I can't tell any more...this was my biggest concern with the boat since I've had it. Even bought a boroscope to check out the tops of thanks but couldn't find a way to get it in there... It's going to be many weeks to save up enough to take the next step... $5000 at least lost today..

Can't you access tank exterior from any way? Even if that means making a hole somewhere that you can cover later on?

L

 

[MurrayM]

Hope your path becomes clear, and manageable, as you deal with the most important stuff first.

 

[Bigfish]

I will have to do that next...

 

[STB]

Can you access the top? Cut out postage stamps or drill big holes as inspection ports? Pressure wash it and see the story. Maaaaaybe theee are localized problems that can be ground, epoxies, and then spray line the tank?

No one's first choice, but I'd look before I essentially threw away the boat.in the beat case a saw, grinder, epoxy, and liner are cheap, ad are gasket sheets, screws, and metal plate as a cover for the holes.

 

[SoWhat]

You can buy some 5 gal gas cans at Walmart and empty bilges into those for subsequent disposal. Then a gallon or two of Krud-Kutter for cleaning.

You can buy an electric fuel pump and a qty of fuel hose. Then pump out remaining tank into 15 or 30 gallon drums stored on the back deck.

Short term you can install a temporary 30 gal used fuel tank as a day tank. At least you would be able to move boat when needed. Check craigslist, boat yards, marine salvage shops. Should be able to come up with something.

Long term the tanks need to be cut out. I think you can do it without recurrent hernia issues if you take them out in bite size chunks. Everyone wants to cut them into 4 pieces with a sawzall. A lot of brute muscle work. I suspect a right angle grinder and a dremel multi-max with a metal blade will allow you to cut tank up into small pieces. (Eye and ear protection mandatory)

Key is to have completely dry and clean tank. Residual diesel in the tank would not be good. Pull the access plate off and pump out any remaining fuel into 5 gal jug. Then pour cat litter in to absorb anything pump didn't get. Soap and water to finish the job. If you don't smell diesel, you can start cutting.

Once tanks are out, you can start installing multiple smaller tanks as time and money allows. If you have a good final plan, I think you can keep the resale value.

Work smart, not hard. Think in small pieces and big time chunks. I think it can be done within your physical limitations. I had my inguinal hernia redone. Had my shoulder rebuilt. Wouldn't let them touch my fractured disc. I managed to remove and rebuild both transmissions without anything major. I couldn't muscle them so a lot of thought went into the process.

(My fuel tanks are on the watch list. Bilge pumps are NOT left on when I leave the boat)

 

[STB]

SoWhat,

Great, practical advice!

 

[T210DRVR]

Wondered where water was getting in to the port 350 gallon tank.. Suspected condensation.. Removed 1 gallon of water from racor! Had remaining fuel polished with little water or muck... Then had fuel truck top her off with new fuel. At 291 gallons we noticed my bilge pump pumping mega gallons of fuel into the harbor... Bilge full of fuel..major flow coming in from under the tank... Stopped after a LOT of fuel pumped out... Leak has stopped, currently pumping fuel from that tank to my starboard tank to level the boat... Water in the fuel stopped the port engine two weeks ago and haven't restarted it. Bled all the lines and replaced secondary filters and racor.. Will probably limp out of this boatyard back to my mooring ball on the one engine and lick my wounds...
Where's the leak? Rusted out top of the tank on my 1981 Formosa 42?? If so, then what???
Bad day... Still haven't heard from the coast guard... Yard owner reported the spill...
Anybody replace these old tanks???

Don’t despair. Cutting up the old tank is time consuming but not technical. You may find a tank from a big rig that will fit. Your capacity will be significantly reduced as most truck fuel tanks are 125-150 gallons but the tanks are cheap. Fashion a cradle to rest the tank on. Truck tanks are usually round but the are a very few square ones around. You can probably glass the cradle in. Ugly but effective. Some welding on the tank will be needed to mate with your fuel fill hose as well as a bung for the return line. I have a pretty bad leak on one of my tanks so I may be faced with the task. Of course, there is marine grade JB Weld and sheet metal patch as well.

 

[Solly]

I agree with SoWhat pump out what you can into smaller barrels for storage.Esp. the leaking tank. Look for smaller tanks and a place to put it/them. Moeller 50 gal plastic tank is around $ 333. 45 L X 12.5 W X 22 H. Should be able to find a place for 1 anyway. Between the engines ?? 2 of them would give 100 gal. With Ford Lehmans that should give you some range if you need it. Or plumb both engines to one to move the boat.
Hope this helps. Life sucks sometimes but where there's a will there's a way.

 

[mvweebles]

Bigfish - first, really sorry to hear of your situation. As someone who had a small weep somewhere in one of my tanks, I worried for years about it turning into a major episode like you've experienced.

Sounds like you're in the Keys, so about 400 nms from Isla Mujeres MX. I just had my fuel tanks replaced on the other side of Mexico (Ensenada, south of San Diego). Tank fabrication in fiberglass was $6500 for four 100-gallon tanks plus fittings (not cheap - plan at least $500, though I opted for fiberglass access plates that ran close to $1000 total) , including removal of old tanks. Engine removal and install was about $1500. Sounds like you're on a very limited budget so even this may be out of reach, but it's something to think about if your boat (and yourself) are otherwise seaworthy enough to make the run. I do not have first hand knowledge of Isla Mujeres but it has a reputation for being a cruiser friendly destination, most prefer it to the Keys for both affordability and lifestyle.

Thanks for sharing your painful story. Best regards for a good outcome.

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks MV.. I had been planning to make the run to Guatemala once the tanks were full and port engine running again. Work and everything is very cheap there... I don't trust myself to do anything right at the moment...thanks for the thoughts

 

[mvweebles]

Guatemala is twice the distance as Isla Mujeres and access is more difficult. I'm about 80% through a very comprehensive refit. To my thinking, there are four components to choosing a yard for work: skill/tools, labor costs, parts availability, and accessibility. Overemphasized one leg too much and you run risk of losing out on other three. Rio Dulce is cheap, parts are more expensive.access isn't good. If work needed is hugely labor intensive, a decent choice. Isla is on the way. Good stopover - if it works, great. Otherwise, keep steaming.

There are also more crude and basic yards elsewhere in Yucatan. SV Zingaro did a YouTube episode of hauling somewhere near Progresso for ultra cheap. Much of the work ended up being redone a year later, but something like tanks should be okay.

Thanks MV.. I had been planning to make the run to Guatemala once the tanks were full and port engine running again. Work and everything is very cheap there... I don't trust myself to do anything right at the moment...thanks for the thoughts

 

[Redhook98]

The tanks in my 49-ft MT PH were rotted out. The previous owner pulled them when he refitted the engine room and replaced them with 2 150-gallon tanks. (down from the original 900+ gallons the original 5 tanks supplied). At 4gph including gen, unless I am doing some extended cruising, I really do not need much more.



If you do write that tank off and do not replace, at least seal it somehow and add water to compensate for listing.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 98. I agree with adding something to the decommissioned tank but perhaps water or any liquid may not be the best idea. IF, at some time in the future the "dead" tank develops a leak at the bottom, the liquid may carry residual diesel fuel into the bilges and be pumped out...same problem as now, sort of.


Perhaps cement blocks or gravel? I think weight added should be equal to the weight of the good tank when half full. Yup. When the good tank is full you'll lean one way and vice-versa when near empty.

 

[Chrisjs]

BigFish:
If you are still trying to deal with fuel in the bilge, I can relate my personal experience. Unlike your situation, my spill was human error (mine!). With both tanks full, I had the return valve open to the non-feeding tank which overflowed.

Apart from what went out from the bilge pumps halfway up Delaware Bay, I was left with 10+gallons in the bilge. Using a hand operated bilge pump, I transferred fuel into containers and mopped up as best I could with paper towels. Over a few hours the fuel and bilge water separated well enough to allow fuel to be decanted and filtered through paper towels (coffee filters). A couple of passes through the filter (crude Baja filter), the diesel was clean enough to put back in the fuel tank with no subsequent issues.

 

[FF]

There is good news in your situation, one gallon milk jugs from the dumpster will hold fuel for a couple of weeks before leaking , enough time to dump them somewhere legal.


The other "good" news is removing the old fuel tank is a very low skilled job.


With a couple of batteries and a hand grinder you should be able to hire an unskilled minimum wage worker .Might be slow but removing the tank should be within your budget.


Plastic tanks , or even a number of outboard tanks , would be enough to keep the boat mobile , water and pump outs come to mind.


Once the tank is gone I would size plastic tank by creating a mock up of a std sized tank out of dumpster cardboard and fitting it in place .Create a number of mock ups so you can add tankage as funding permits.



If you have labeled the connections to the removed tank, specing the new plastic tank fittings should be easy.


Should there be so little room to install plastic fuel tanks , there are rubber fuel bladders that will work , although there about 2x the per gallon cost of volume.

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[dbltime]

Maybe this has already been suggested I know a Seaton owner who had a huge leaky diesel tank. The yard cut a 3’ opening in the tank and a kid wearing a respirator climbed inside and coated the tank with a industrial tank sealing material. That was 7 years ago. Still holding.

 

[Bigfish]

I love it...

 

[Mark Scott]

Sorry to hear of your problems big fish. I have replaced all four of the tanks on my Island Gypsy, I cut the old ones out with a sawsall and had new polypropolyne tanks made to order by Triple M plastics in Maine. They did a great job at a reasonable price. I had them made small enough to get through the door and between the engines, and did the whole job myself. I now carry less fuel, but it's still well enough .
If you can limp back to your mooring ball and recover for a while - at least you have a once floating home while you come up with a plan.
All the best.

 

[Bigfish]

Hey Larry! Curious how your tank replacement project went.. Can you email me at darling.r@comcast.net?
Thanks, Bob

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks Mark. Just getting TO these tanks is still not clear... I tried to access my waste deck plate a few months ago and couldn't get there... There was a plywood piece restricting access above and behind my AC unit that had been securely NAILED in place. Couldn't even get a prybar in there... Looking for an inexpensive do it yourself yard that will allow me to live on the boat as I disassemble it... Heard of one up by Jacksonville but can't remember the name...

 

[rolomart3]

Just anchor the boat in Jacksonville, grind off the HIN, and walk away. Isn’t that where old boats go to die?

Bad boy!!! Do not suggest abandoning the boat not even joking. On this matter, all boaters must be on the side of protecting the waterways and the laws. The attitude must be to prevent derelict boats as all boaters end up in one way or another paying off for a portion of the consequences.


IMHO the thing for boaters to do is to insist on boat builders that major components of the boat must be serviceable. In the case of fuel tanks, by design they must be replaceable.

 

[Capecodder]

I hired a strong younger man with a saws all, to remove one tank. He was very reasonable price. Wise. He is now on morning in/around Marathon might be available to assist you.

 

[Nickair]

You have some common threads of great advice on here.
Hopefully no need to remove engine at high shop rates

Transfer 1/2 tank of fuel to 30/55 gal barrels on opposite side for ballast, or sell

1) Gaining access does sound like cutting a plywood bulkhead. Hire a handyman
2) Cut out leaking tank into manageable pieces. Hire handyman & supervise.
3) Replace tank w/ several plastic tanks as space and ballast allow/require.

Wish you all the best luck.
Keep us posted as it looks we are all feeling your pain on this.

 

[JLD]

IMHO the thing for boaters to do is to insist on boat builders that major components of the boat must be serviceable. In the case of fuel tanks, by design they must be replaceable.

Boats are built for the initial buyer of the boat. If it is a component that is going to fail after 10 years of ownership, many builders don't really care. Nor does the original buyer of the boat, as he/she has probably already sold this boat and moved on to another boat.

In the sailing world, Island Packet, is a great example. They build some beautiful boats with great livability. They can be s.o.b.s, however. when it comes to repairs.

• Tanks (fuel, waste, and water) can be difficult to get to.
• Even worse is access to the chainplates (the s.s. plates to which the shrouds, the rigging that holds up the mast, is secured) is almost impossible to get to. Chainplates are glassed to the hull are located behind the built in furniture. That makes them impossible to inspect and ridiculously expensive to replace, 12K-15K.

Jim

 

[mvweebles]

Boats are built for the initial buyer of the boat. If it is a component that is going to fail after 10 years of ownership, many builders don't really care. Nor does the original buyer of the boat, as he/she has probably already sold this boat and moved on to another boat.

In the sailing world, Island Packet, is a great example. They build some beautiful boats with great livability. They can be s.o.b.s, however. when it comes to repairs.

• Tanks (fuel, waste, and water) can be difficult to get to.
• Even worse is access to the chainplates (the s.s. plates to which the shrouds, the rigging that holds up the mast, is secured) is almost impossible to get to. Chainplates are glassed to the hull are located behind the built in furniture. That makes them impossible to inspect and ridiculously expensive to replace, 12K-15K.

Jim

I agree. A boat with serviceable systems including tanks with manhole inspection ports and surface mount wiring and plumbing runs would be unsellable in today's market. Look at what is extolled as an offshore passagemaker in places like this forum and you'd be hard pressed to even locate the tanks let alone service them. Few buyers associate quality with serviceability. They are swayed by nice interiors and hidden systems with lots of bells and whistles.

 

[High Wire]

One of these can help with access behind plywood. The blade in the middle can plunge cut through quickly.

https://shop.harborfreight.com/medi...8eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/3/63113_W3.jpg

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Sorry for your plight. I'm thinking you can still move forward.

Patch that hole in the top of your tank. Even if you literally have to chop a hole in your companionway. It needs work anyway. Once you find the hole you can get a welder to just weld a patch on it or maybe something even cheaper depending on the size of the hole and condition of the surrounding material. For example, go to the hardware store and look at the patch screws for hot water tanks.( if the hole is small)

Don't you have any friends ? relatives?

You must be on Salt Water, tough environment, Even the rain will wash salt onto the top of your tank.

Again, don't despair. Keep your posts current and let us know what is happening.

We Care,

pete

 

[sunchaser]

I agree. A boat with (WITHOUT?) serviceable systems including tanks with manhole inspection ports and surface mount wiring and plumbing runs would be unsellable in today's market. Look at what is extolled as an offshore passagemaker in places like this forum and you'd be hard pressed to even locate the tanks let alone service them. Few buyers associate quality with serviceability. They are swayed by nice interiors and hidden systems with lots of bells and whistles.

Typo?